Need Some 3X2 Help

[tripower]

I have been having trouble getting my secondaries to work.:bang Also, after the car had been driven and shut off the front and rear carbs would leak fuel onto the manifold.:doh I removed the tops on both front and rear carbs and checked the float levels. They are dead on at 1-13/32". I did have a problem with the aft carb accelerator pump cup so I replaced the cup and also noticed that the needle seats were loose so, I re-tightened them and put everything back together. Upon starting the engine it didn't sound right and idled a bit rough. Like I had a vacuum leak. Don't have a vacuum gauge need to get one today. I drove it a bit but it just didn't run right and the secondaries still didn't work but, the fuel leaking past the needle seats did stop. Well, I thought maybe I should check the center carb float level and needle seat and all was well there with a float level of 1-5/16". My car has the original vacuum diaphragm secondaries and I want to keep it that way. I replaced the Diaphram last year and have tested it and it seams to me okay. On the center carb there is a vacuum slider valve that works in conjuction with the Vacume diaphram. I noticed that the valve post on the vacuum slider valve was not all the way at the top position so I pulled it up with my finger and now I can't even get my engine to idle without holding it up on the fast idle cam. Even after positioning the slider valve in the same location as before. I did check the distance between the pump lever and the valve post at 1/32 but I just noticed in the manual it states "Before making adjustment, make sure valve post is fully upward. That being the case I would need to move the slider valve down and re-adjust. Any help here would be great.

[tripower]

these pics are better

[tripower]

Got the vacuum issue figured out but still could use some advise on getting the secondaries to work.

[fatride]

I don't quite understand the problem with the secondarys not working, you need to explain further! As far as the engine not idling, it sounds like the secondary carbs are cracked open slightly causing a vacuum leak. Look down the secondary carb bores to confirm that the throttle plates are fully closed.

[tripower]

I don't quite understand the problem with the secondarys not working, you need to explain further! As far as the engine not idling, it sounds like the secondary carbs are cracked open slightly causing a vacuum leak. Look down the secondary carb bores to confirm that the throttle plates are fully closed.

Ray, You are correct. The aft carb accelerator pump linkage had to be adjusted to close the throttle plate. No more vacuum leak. I don't know why the secondaries aren't working. They were working fine and now they aren't. I guess I need to get one of those vacuum pumps to test everything? I'm wondering if that slider valve is my problem?:dunno

[tripower]

I have not been able to get the vacuum secondaries to to work so I decided to install the progressive linkage. :doh I only had to install the one rod that goes from the throttle on the center carb to the forward carb. My question is if I adjust the slip colar to get full secondaries I don't have much throttle so, I backed it up and I can cruise at about seventy before the secondaries want to kick in but don't get full secondaries. Do the secondary butterflies have to be wide open to get the full affect?:dunno Can anyone advise here.

[fatride]

It would help a great deal to have pictures of your particular setup to make an accurate assesment. The true progressive setup would have an extended throttle shaft on the center carb with a bellcrank attached that will extend to the passenger side of the carb. The bellcrank has different hole positions from the throttle shaft out. This will allow the for the secondary linkage to be set in a off center position compaired to the stock hole location on the driver side of the carbs. That in turn allows you to have plenty of throttle for light cruising and still have the secondary carbs open for full throttle runs. I'll see if I have pictures of my setup. You do have to have the secondary carbs open full to get all the performance.

[tripower]

Ray thanks for the help. Here are some pics. This is what Show cars sent me. I only used the rod on the drivers side. The other rod they sent for the passenger side is identical to the one I already had. Notice the slip collar.

[fatride]

I am not familiar with the Showcars linkage kit. It looks like to me to be a quick fix for a non functioning vacuum pull on. A true progressive linkage setup would have the vaccum setup completly stripped from the carbs and the throttle shaft would be lengthened on the center carb. Without seeing this linkage setup first hand and being able to mess with it myself I'm afraid I am at a loss to give you advice. I looked at all of the pictures I have posted on the three two linkage and I don't have any that give a clear picture of my progressive linkage. If I have time this weekend I will pull out my three two carbs and linkage and take a pic.

[1958 delivery]

Ray thanks for the help. Here are some pics. This is what Show cars sent me. I only used the rod on the drivers side. The other rod they sent for the passenger side is identical to the one I already had. Notice the slip collar.


I have the same thing. I wanted to post some pic's but I can't figure out how to reduce the file size.
You have 1 extra rod than I do, I have the driver side lower center carb to front carb rod as yours, but you have another above that. Is that a choke lock out rod?
The pass side is identical.
I think what I did to get it adjusted was:
Loosen the slip collar, open the center carb WOT hold it. Open the out side carbs WOT, now tighten the slip collar. My center carb opens about 15% to 20% before the outers, then they all will go WOT together. I can drive at freeway speeds without ever getting into the outers.
I was quite disappointed with this linkage because I wanted some kind of precision, ball bearing type.
When I get into the outer carbs it becomes noticably harder to press the pedal down so I cut off the ends of this cheap linkage rod and threaded the ends for heim joint fitings, helped to make it easier to push on.
Hope this helps.

[tripower]

I have the same thing. I wanted to post some pic's but I can't figure out how to reduce the file size.
You have 1 extra rod than I do, I have the driver side lower center carb to front carb rod as yours, but you have another above that. Is that a choke lock out rod?
The pass side is identical.
I think what I did to get it adjusted was:
Loosen the slip collar, open the center carb WOT hold it. Open the out side carbs WOT, now tighten the slip collar. My center carb opens about 15% to 20% before the outers, then they all will go WOT together. I can drive at freeway speeds without ever getting into the outers.
I was quite disappointed with this linkage because I wanted some kind of precision, ball bearing type.
When I get into the outer carbs it becomes noticably harder to press the pedal down so I cut off the ends of this cheap linkage rod and threaded the ends for heim joint fitings, helped to make it easier to push on.
Hope this helps.

58, That is the choke lockout rod. I adjusted the secondaries exactly as you suggested upon first installing the lower drivers side rod from center carb to front carb. Here is a pic of that. Notice my throttle. There is none before I get into the secondaries...:doh If you could post some pics that would help. Thanks

[1958 delivery]

Some one explain how to reduce file size and I'll gladly post some pic's. When I reduce the file size then I'm way off center on the pic, what am I doing wrong?

[1958 delivery]

From what I can see on this pic it looks about the same as mine. There is approx 1/2" of space between the stud on the center carb pivot and the lock collar. So the center carb moves a considerable distance before the outer carbs are engaged, then at WOT they are all fully opened.

[1958 delivery]

Any chance your slip collar is catching on the flat edge of the linkage instead of the stud? I noticed if I try to adjust the slip collar too close to the linkage it will do this.

[tripower]

58, we have a picture program that we use to reduce the file size. That is about as much as I can tell you sorry. As for the linkage I only have about a 1/4" of throttle before it kicks in the secondaries. If I adjust it out to 1/2" then I am where I can cruise at about 70 mph before the secondaries kick in but I only get about 3/4 secondaries. Check the pics in post #8.

[tripower]

Any chance your slip collar is catching on the flat edge of the linkage instead of the stud? I noticed if I try to adjust the slip collar too close to the linkage it will do this.

Slip collar is not catching on the linkage. I did notice that earlier. Thanks for your help.

[1958 delivery]

58, we have a picture program that we use to reduce the file size. That is about as much as I can tell you sorry. As for the linkage I only have about a 1/4" of throttle before it kicks in the secondaries. If I adjust it out to 1/2" then I am where I can cruise at about 70 mph before the secondaries kick in but I only get about 3/4 secondaries. Check the pics in post #8.



Pic 8 looks too far out, pic 11 looks about where mine is. But my sec's definitely go WOT because you can see the driver side linkage arm hit against the stop on the base. Are your carbs orig 3X2's or are they modified carbs. Mine are actual 58 carbs.

[1958 delivery]

Slip color in not catching on the linkage. I did notice that earlier. Thanks for your help.


My slip collar is adjusted at about the point where it just barely clears the edge of the linkage, and I mean barely.

[tripower]

My slip collar is adjusted at about the point where it just barely clears the edge of the linkage, and I mean barely.

58, Thanks for the input:bow but, I managed to repair my vacuum slider valve.:clap I didn't care much for the way that that progressive worked...:doh but, may end up trying it at a later date if this vacuum gives me trouble...

[tripowerguy]

When I bought my 58 new in 58 I took it out to the drags at San Gabrial drag strip. I ran it through bone stock just took the air cleaner off. The thing was that when you took it up to 6000rpm and shifted the secondarys hung open for a bit. Which caused a over rev situation. There was a kit that you could buy that fit OLDS J2's and Chevy 3X2 that was a mechanical linkage with heim bearing fittings. I put one of these on when the car was 1 month old. I don't see any linkage around like that now. If you don't have the secondarys hanging open with wide open throttle then I guess you have a very good vacuum setup. The 58 3X2 and 57 OLDs J2 carbs are the same and all the 59 and later carbs had inlets on the side instead of in the front.:) Roy

[Tom Kochtanek]

Roy has great eyes! When he and Phil Reed were down my basement they pointed out several things that I missed in a few of the engines set up on stands crowding my basement floor :). One of the tripower setups I had sported an out-of-place carb that Roy spotted immediately. He offered to swap it out to make it correct, which we did. I never even knew! Phil has a keen eye as well. They are welcome down my basement anytime :).

I think Phil walked out of there with a pair of swept back 925/926s and some matching 690s in his back pockets :). Watch out, Texans!

Cheers!
TomK

[1958 delivery]

When I bought my 58 new in 58 I took it out to the drags at San Gabrial drag strip. I ran it through bone stock just took the air cleaner off. The thing was that when you took it up to 6000rpm and shifted the secondarys hung open for a bit. Which caused a over rev situation. There was a kit that you could buy that fit OLDS J2's and Chevy 3X2 that was a mechanical linkage with heim bearing fittings. I put one of these on when the car was 1 month old. I don't see any linkage around like that now. If you don't have the secondarys hanging open with wide open throttle then I guess you have a very good vacuum setup. The 58 3X2 and 57 OLDs J2 carbs are the same and all the 59 and later carbs had inlets on the side instead of in the front.:) Roy



Dang Roy, how old are you?
I'm old (57) and I was 7 or 8 when the '58 came out!

[tripowerguy]

58 Delivery, I'm pushing 69 real hard. I graduated from Covina High in 1957 and bought my 58 Biscayne 315 hp in may of 1958. I raced it stock with cutouts for 4 months with a best of 95 mph and mid 14's. I took the engine out and it had 5 cracked pistons and I took the rotating assembly to Don Nicholson and the heads also. After he balanced the new pistons[ no bore job] and Earl Wade did the heads and a set of headman headers. I took it to Riverside and the first run was 14.18 at 100.28 mph. I then took the car to Don's dyno at Service Chrevrolet and had it Dynoed. It put out 255 hp to the rear wheels and eventually went 102 at 13.90 et. It never broke in 3 years and I put rings and rod bearings in it once. I raced every week end and I never had so much fun in my life. Don Nicholson was a friend and Les Ritchy was a good acquaintance. Everyone drove their sedans to work and to the races. People today don't realize how great drag racing was then, there were 6 dragstrips within 50 miles. There were no professionals, just guys and their cars or a few who pooled their money and talents to race a fueler or competition car. The Nationals were where everyone from all over the U.S. went once a year to see how good they really were. The guys in California thought they had superior equipment but the nationals opened their eyes that some others were pretty good. Man it really gets my juices flowing thinking about it.:D Roy

[rstreet]

Roy:
Great story of our history.
Robert

[1958 delivery]

Roy, Covina HS...did you know Duffy? He was a couple of years younger but Covina wasn't too big back then.

[tripowerguy]

58 Del. I remember a lot about cars but very little of school.:rofl I do remember Doc Sooter my basketball coach, Dan Jacobson basketball player and Neifo the Samoian fullback. Ours was the last graduating class from the old Covina high before they splint to West Covina and Covina. Clippinger Chevrolet is still there, where I bought my 64 409 SS. I had a 40 F**d Deluxe Coupe with a 5/16 x1/4 flathead in school. I traded that for a 3/8X3/8 flathead powered dragster when I got out of school. We are really getting off the subject of 3X2 carb problems with this thread. The problem is like Fred said the older we get the faster we were and the more we like to talk about it. I like to talk about some of the big names in drag racing when they weren't so big, like Don Prudomme when he was about 16 and used to wipe Tom Ivo's slicks on Tom's T street Roadster.:D Roy

[rstreet]

Roy: Man keep talking and do you have any pictures to scan for us?
Rstreet