Blown versus Heads

[budgetrod]

The question I would like to present is : Given the fact that a set of the new aluminum heads or a 671 blower set up are similar in cost, Which option do you think would make a better dual purpose street/strip motor? A 409 cubic inch motor with a blower and reworked small port heads, as that is what the blower kit was for or 409 with bwr heads. Assume both are built to run on pump gas. IMHO I don't think anything beats the wow factor of a big blower, but wonder how well one would run. Has anyone on here built such a beast? What kind of numbers would these combos make? There has been some pretty impressive 348 stroker and 409 built by members with small heads, just wonering about adding a blower to the mix.

[1958 delivery]

Ideal solution is to build the '09 blower WITH alum heads!

[JimKwiatkowski]

If your interested in Aluminum heads,come to Norwalk and see Bob Walla's Aluminum heads he's selling.We have about 30 members and 18 409 powered cars attending the Blue Suede Cruise :dunno

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q90/JIMKWI/bluesuedecruise.jpg

[gearhead409]

go with the blower. 50% more hp and torque isn't a bad thing but it's not cheap. if you're going to race it be prepared to replace parts more often. ( keep an extra block under the work bench)!

[budgetrod]

Ideal solution is to build the '09 blower WITH alum heads!

Both are definitely not an option. I'll be lucky to do one.

[budgetrod]

I'm not looking to race really just make a cool strong running street/strip type motor and keep rpms down. I figured a blower should make lots of low and mid range torque withiut abusing the parts too badly. Just kind of exploring my options and looking for opinions. I'm building a 60's style willys sedan gasser so the blower would look cery cool and correct. Like Bodb Idas back in the day.

[bignbad60]

Willys = Blower, no doubt:brow

[Ronnie Russell]

My vote also goes to the blower. gearhead could offer you the good basic information as to how to set it up and keep it conservative for a dynamite street machine.

[bubbletop1961]

Willys = Blower, no doubt:brow

I agree, BLOWER. That will make a sweet gasser.:cool:

[gearhead409]

the nice thing about a street driven blower motor is you don't need a big lumpy cam or a low rear axle gearset to make a stong performer. the torque of a blower motor can be very high at a more street friendly RPM. if you decide to go with it and need help, just ask.

[blown55409]

I agree blown is the way to go, unless you don't want to get noticed:rolleyes: Mine runs sweet on the street, idles at a stop light without fuss and runs cool. before I went on vacation I finally made a full 1/4 mile pass at the oldies @ Woodburn and in full street trim and pump gas it went 10.77 and 10.78 @ 126.xx with 6.91 1/8.
Willys+blown 409=way cool

[budgetrod]

I agree blown is the way to go, unless you don't want to get noticed:rolleyes: Mine runs sweet on the street, idles at a stop light without fuss and runs cool. before I went on vacation I finally made a full 1/4 mile pass at the oldies @ Woodburn and in full street trim and pump gas it went 10.77 and 10.78 @ 126.xx with 6.91 1/8.
Willys+blown 409=way cool

That is awsome. What heads are you using? Cam specs? Rear gear? Ive never done a blower motor but I've always wanted to. What kind of pistons and compression ratio? Sorry for so many questions, but can't even afford to do things once much less twice. I like to have things different than everybody else so I think this project would do that. One it's a sedan not a coupe and two it's a 37 not the dime a dozen 40 or 41 front end. If I can ever get the wife to help me I'll try to post some pics. I've got the frame all tacked together and w motor in place, th400, front floor redone, cut cowl off, made new firewall, Engine set back 10%, The back of the valve covers are near the front of the dash.

[32witha409]

I couldn't resist tie blown Willys posts. I am crew on my buddies car which is a Willys gasser with a Littlefield blower on top of a Bubby Wilton 542 inch BBC. It is not a W but lots of fun. The California guys that like the nostalgia drags might know the car. (see attached picture). Nice chop and just a great looking car. Would love to see your car when you are finished. We will be at Bakersfield in I believe September.
Robert

[blown55409]

Budgetrod
first to answer your questions. I use the 583 heads, the cam is a mech. roller 250-258 @ .050, lift is .630 .660. on a 114 lobe sep. the rear gear is a early Olds 3.08 posi. Tires are MT 325-50-15 et radials 28lbs around town and 16 to 18 at the track. Block is bored .060 and stroked with a factory forged 454 crank, pistons are Ross, comp. is 8.2 I use a MSD boost timing master and on pump gas I take out 2* for every lbs of boost, they max at 15* retard which at 10lbs boost total timing is only 20-21* safe enough I've never heard it raddle, AFR is 11 to 1 at wot. I shift at 6200 and the rev limiter is set at 6600 and I've hit it more times than I can remember.
Most everything that you need for your Project will be some what of the shelf except the intake manifold unless yoou all ready have a line on one. I would check with BDS as I remember that they sell one for the small port heads only.

Your Willys project should be a bunch lighter and with good forged pistons, a solid lifter cam, free flowing headers and your small port heads it will be a rocket.

Keep up your research heck thats part of the fun. If you have any more questions just ask.

chip

[bubbletop1961]

[QUOTE=blown55409;76766]Budgetrod
comp. is 8.2 I use a MSD boost timing master and on pump gas I take out 2* for every lbs of boost, they max at 15* retard which at 10lbs boost total timing is only 20-21* safe enough I've never heard it raddle, AFR is 11 to 1 at wot.


That sounds like a great tune up. Good info to compare to. And with pump gas, I bet it a blast around town. Do you have a wide band in the car? When I was doing some forced induction that was a MUST have. Still use it today too help with tuning.

[budgetrod]

Thanks for the great info. What do you have for carbs. 750's?

[jim_ss409]

Here's a calculator that estimates the horsepower increase with a blower... http://www.wallaceracing.com/hp-blower.php
I punched in a 350hp engine with 8psi of boost and it comes out to 540hp.:deal

I think a blower would work great with small heads. If I remember right, BDS is the only company that makes a manifold and it's kinda pricey. I once played with the idea of modifying an Offy intake and using a less expensive Weiand blower.

[blown55409]

bubbletop
No wide band yet, Although I've been looking at LC-1 by innovate for a future turbo small block project. Their website is www.diyautotune.com not only do they have a great product but their support in the best I've seen. anyone interested in tunning a carb or fuel injection should visit their forms section. I plan on making it retro fit all my rigs, it will sure make it easier to tune.
My AFR's were taken on a chassis dyno, good for WOT but difficult for part throttle.

Budgetrod
Yes, My carbs are Holley 750 DP's with HP main bodies 73 pri. 86 sec. PVCR opened up about .015, Hi flo PV @6.5 in. (car idles in gear @ 10"). .093 holes drilled in each pri. throttle blade and IFCR opened about .005. It was probably just dumb luck that I hit this tune first shot out of the box, everything was just best guess. I'm sure with a wide band I could improve on it but seat of the pants it feels good.

Chip

[region rat]

I think I'd even vote for the blower on the street, even if I can get the heads we still need to make an intake. Blowers are just that cool! Region Rat

[budgetrod]

The small port heads I have are 333 castings. I was going to have 2.06 valves installed. Should I go with 2.19 valves? Or will it really make a difference given the forced induction?

[models916]

Muscle Cars on Speed last night had Gale Banks special on superchargers. Hope you all caught it, I think he answered every question here. I am wondering how a 409 diesel would run.