Find of a lifetime

[evldoer]

Well the story goes back a ways, iI know this guy who is kind of an odd ball, super nice guy, great to work with, not a b.s.er, who likes to tinker around with this and that. About 2 years ago he was telling me about these big blocks that he has and how much power they could make and bla bla bla, which was ok but we all know that type of guy, has a bbc in his garage and he is going to do this or that to it, right? Well I didnt give it much thought because he drives a rusty Saab.Well then about a year ago Car Craft has a full page article about the Mystery Motor 427, and tells how obscure it is. So that got me thinking about this guy, and what he tells me he has.Everything tells me he is filling my ear with BS, right? Well the only way to find out is to take a look for my own eyes, so for the past 6 months I have been trying to catch up with him, end every time I am in town and call, he is gone or busy.Well sunday night I dropped by without calling and there he was. I took my nova, so we looked at that for a bit, and then I shifted the conversation to the motors he said he has. He takes me down in his basement, which was kind of scary because he lives in a house that should be burned down. The basement was a mess, junk all over, musty, mildewy, wet, just all around nasty. He starts out by showing me the pistons and rods, which really dont tell me much. Then he shows me the blocks, which are lined up and standing on end, with a piece of plywood on top, and a heaping mound of crap on it. Well as nasty as things are down there, I didnt want to get to close to the blocks. Then He takes me to another corner of the basement, and shows me the heads, and that is when I realized this is the real deal. The heads have those odd ball cast iron pushrod guides on them, and the cylinder head has a shape to it that I have never seen accept for in the pictures of the mystery motor.Thats when his wife starts yelling from up stairs saying how they gotta go now! so I didnt get much time to study them right then and there, I was still a little shell shocked, if you know what I mean. And this guy wont part with them. I asked him over and over and he just says no. He told me they are rare and he wants to keep them, and it kind of makes me mad, knowing that they are sitting there in his basement, all of them disassembled, and rusting away, this guy doesnt have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of, just had a heart attack this winter,and he lives in a house that shouldnt even be occupied.Sad Sad Sad. I want to go back and take some pictures, and write down some casting #s soon, because I know this is so hard to believe. Can a person even put a price on these motors? I cant even begin to think what they are worth. When I get pics I will try and post them to share with all of you. :cry

[walkerheaders]

go back when he's not home and make freinds with the wife. pretend you lost your sunglasses or something. co-miserate with her about that old iron crap in the basement. when he kicks the bucket.......it's yours.



http://www.toeperf.com/427mystery.htm

[bobs409]

I just thought of something really sad. Does anyone ELSE that lives there know of the value? Can you imagine all of this getting tossed out to the scrap pile when he goes? :cry Just think of all the good stuff that got tossed out this way over the years. :eek: (another good reason for the new "what is it?" forum. :D

[models916]

When I was buying my 64 convert. the owner didn't want to sell even though he was out of work at the time. Was trying to sell some of his other junk cars. I made him an offer in front of his wife. He turned it down as before but called later in the day and said he would take the money. I suspect the wife made him an offer he couldn't refuse. I think you should make that engine sale a family decession. PS I did see the wife's eyes bug out when I made the offer on the convert.

[Tic's60]

Or send flowers to the wife just before the husband comes home and love letters to the husband at the house and I am sure something good will happen :rofl Then send over a buddy to ask about the scrap metal in the basment :-)

Hopfully they did not breed!

[evldoer]

I love the way you guys are thinking here, especially you, 916, that makes so much sense, because to a certain degree, I think she wears the pants in that household.Its all about timing though. What would a guy offer for 3 mystery motors, with one of the blocks destroyed from a flywheel explosion? I have to think about that for awhile, you guys are really getting the gears turning in my head. Keep the ideas coming though!:cool:

[bubbletop1961]

When I was buying my 64 convert. the owner didn't want to sell even though he was out of work at the time. Was trying to sell some of his other junk cars. I made him an offer in front of his wife. He turned it down as before but called later in the day and said he would take the money. I suspect the wife made him an offer he couldn't refuse. I think you should make that engine sale a family decession. PS I did see the wife's eyes bug out when I made the offer on the convert.

Great idea to make an offer in front of his wife. Then you are not going behind his back. And you just might gain some one on your side who would like to have some extra money. Dam women, But might work to your advantage this time.:doh

[boxerdog]

I like the way you guys think. On the other hand, I'm glad you have not met my wife!

[1958 delivery]

Why am I doubting this story?

[oldskydog]

Probably because there weren't that many "mystery motors" built. I think most are accounted for although there are always exceptions.:scratch

[Old School]

Why am I doubting this story?


Glad you said it first.... We are thinking the same.....

[oil4kids]

I believe there were under 50 mystery motors built
I know where 4 or 5 are and I think one is in the Floyd Garret Museum in Tenn.

the original MKII mystery motor was 409 cubic inches but Nascar upped the displacement for the 1963 Daytona and Chevy scrambled to machine a longer stroke crankshaft #0-2197650 now known as MKIIs now 427 CI

Smokey claimed made over 650 hp, at least 100 hp over the Z11


All mystery motors I was told were cast at the Saginaw plant to keep things undercover

Ford Motor Company had purchased a mystery motor- thru Holman and Moody from Smokey Yunicks supply on orderds from Semon E. "Bunkie" Knudson who left Chevy and Pontiac and later went to work for Ford in 1968 as CEO
Ford claimed it spent $1 million chasing the development curve on Chevy's powerplant

Mystery Motor designer Dick Keinaths staggered valvetrain later appeared on Ford engines

Someone told me the mystery motor purchased by Ford went back in a Galaxie for testing at Daytona. Where that engine is is uncertain.

People who had the mystery motor; Ray Fox, Smokey Yunick, Mickey Thompson with 2 mystery powered 1963 Z06 Corvettes, Jr Johnson, Hayden Proffitt, Bill Thomas, (possibly Dick Harrell) Fritz Callier, J.E. Kristek, Carl Callier, (CKC)




IF Evldoer friend does have some mystery blocks he is not just anyone.

[1958 delivery]

I believe there were under 50 mystery motors built
I know where 4 or 5 are and I think one is in the Floyd Garret Museum in Tenn.

the original MKII mystery motor was 409 cubic inches but Nascar upped the displacement for the 1963 Daytona and Chevy scrambled to machine a longer stroke crankshaft #0-2197650 now known as MKIIs now 427 CI

Smokey claimed made over 650 hp, at least 100 hp over the Z11


All mystery motors I was told were cast at the Saginaw plant to keep things undercover

Ford Motor Company had purchased a mystery motor- thru Holman and Moody from Smokey Yunicks supply on orderds from Semon E. "Bunkie" Knudson who left Chevy and Pontiac and later went to work for Ford in 1968 as CEO
Ford claimed it spent $1 million chasing the development curve on Chevy's powerplant

Mystery Motor designer Dick Keinaths staggered valvetrain later appeared on Ford engines

Someone told me the mystery motor purchased by Ford went back in a Galaxie for testing at Daytona. Where that engine is is uncertain.

People who had the mystery motor; Ray Fox, Smokey Yunick, Mickey Thompson with 2 mystery powered 1963 Z06 Corvettes, Jr Johnson, Hayden Proffitt, Bill Thomas, (possibly Dick Harrell) Fritz Callier, J.E. Kristek, Carl Callier, (CKC)




IF Evldoer friend does have some mystery blocks he is not just anyone.


Maybe Hoffa is down in that basement too!

[evldoer]

I dont blame you fellas for not believing the story, I know it is hard to take. I need to get back there and take some pics, and write some casting #s down, hopefully there is someone out there that knows the #s. The odd thing about these motors were that they were never intended for automotive use. These were tested in marine applications, thats what this guy is telling me anyways. Sorry to stir you guys up, I hope I can get some pics soon!

[rstreet]

"back in the day" the marine performance company that worked with 409's-427's was Daytona marine and I don't remember which Florida city they were in. I remember seeing some of the engines but I don't have any info. Maybe some of the Fla. guys will know(if they are old enough)
Robert

[wrench]

Why am I doubting this story?

Old guy living in a dump sittin' on a gold mine.

Stranger things have happened.

Look at the stuff Smokey had stashed back.

I've visited the back 40 of some wrecking yards and have seen some really rare and strange stuff. A few years later it's all gone. Most went to the crusher. Sad.

One that sticks out was a Thermoking Diesel powered Ford Falcon that was a dry lakes record holder.

Somewhere out there, somebody's got a _____________ in __________ condition. But won't sell it.

Fill in the blanks. LOL!

[1958 delivery]

I think what I am having the most trouble with isn't the possibility of some old dude having this stuff. I just find it strange when a new member makes his first post with a "mother lode" find. Kind of like those "I'll send you a cashiers check" Nigerian stories. I could be wrong, no big deal. If I am my apologies but it's the way I'm wired.

[Speed]

<smile>..........................

[oil4kids]

the way I see it there are about 35 Mystery Motors unaccounted for.

But i havent checked under Jr Johnsons bed either.

[NASCAR FAN]

Junior Johnson's 1963 Impala SS/"Mystery Motor" NASCAR race car is on display in the North Carolina Museum of History in Raleigh. Actually back in 1963 there was more than one Ray Fox/Johnson car. This one is probably the only survivor.

http://www.ncmuseumofhistory.org/

Rick

[Ronnie Russell]

Thanks for the information NASCAR FAN....... And welcome to our forum. Lots of Nascar fans on this site. Please jump in anytime. :) :)

[droptop62]

Anything is possible I guess, but sometimes you need some real hard facts presented in the way of pics or ?????.
There is a barn here locally that has over a dozen great old GM cars in it. The owners of the property won't sell any of the cars, and is about the scariest METH HEAD freak I have ever seen. There is a Chevelle in that barn I want so badly, but am actually too frightened to deal with the people that live there.

Have you ever seen a Meth addict? SCARY!!

[rstreet]

Have you ever seen a Meth addict? SCARY!![/QUOTE]

No can't say that I have but we have many cocaine and oxy-c ones around here. I have seen two good ex-employees caught up in it and they have gone from semi-porfessionals to just somone hanging on the street corner. Neither has any 409 parts though!
Robert

[Impalaguru]

Old guy living in a dump sittin' on a gold mine.

Stranger things have happened.

Look at the stuff Smokey had stashed back.

I've visited the back 40 of some wrecking yards and have seen some really rare and strange stuff. A few years later it's all gone. Most went to the crusher. Sad.

One that sticks out was a Thermoking Diesel powered Ford Falcon that was a dry lakes record holder.

Somewhere out there, somebody's got a _____________ in __________ condition. But won't sell it.

Fill in the blanks. LOL!

There is a guy in Des Moines that lives behind the state fair grounds, on the east side of Des Moines. He lives in a shack that barely passes for a house and has an all original, marina blue 69 Yenko camaro. I think there was an article about the car in Chevy Rumble a few years back.
Ross