# of Mk II 427s built?

[NASCAR FAN]

"The Mark II was a closely guarded secret, with only enough components available to build about 42 of these 427 Chevy engines."

Jim Maxwell
CHEVY RUMBLE Magazine
Jan. 2008 issue, pg. 37

[oil4kids]

Wrong

The MKII was 409 cubic inches based on the W motors lower end and new mystery motor heads, 90 degree block

the MIIs s standing for stroked was 427 cu bic inches after a change in the Daytona rules allowing for bigger displacement, a new crank was ready just weeks before the race


all were cast at the saginaw plant because Dick Keinath originally worked there and was well know by the staff, allowing him easy access to work on the project in secret, the real number was much lower probably 15 since they were hand built

the original blocks and steel cranks had a 0- casting number

[NASCAR FAN]

I have no idea if Jim Maxwell's claim that around 42 Mk II engines were built is correct. It would be interesting to know where he received his information. I have a copy of a transcript of a Dick Keinath interview about the Mk II. Mr Keinath states he does not know how many engines were built.

With all due respect, "after a change in the Daytona rules allowing for bigger displacement," is an incorrect statement.

NASCAR placed a 7 litre (427 cubic inches) cap on engine displacement for the the 1963 NASCAR season not just the Daytona race. This also means NASCAR put a limit on engine displacement---not increased it. In other words, there was not a cubic inch limit before the 427 rule so NASCAR did not change the rules "allowing for bigger displacement". Prior to the 1963 427 rule, Chevrolet could have raced in the 1962 Daytona 500, and later '62 races, with 454 cubic inch engines if they, in 1962, had built a production engine of that size. In fact the 1959 Ford NASCAR race cars had 430 cubic inch engines and by the rules, the '59 cars were allowed to compete in races during the 1959, 1960, and 1961 NASCAR seasons.

Rick

[oil4kids]

Look clown,, this statement is out of the mouth of Dick Keinath, and I dont give a crap what you or anyone else says,including super chevy, chevy rumble, Fran Prev or any other mag or person

if Dick is wrong I still dont care, because he lived thru those days and the mystery motor started out as a 409 cube engine and was later changed to 427. hense the "s" designation on both the MKIs- 427 and MkIIs= 427

dont bother us with wrong info

[NASCAR FAN]

I have no idea if Jim Maxwell's claim that around 42 Mk II engines were built is correct. It would be interesting to know where he received his information. I have a copy of a transcript of a Dick Keinath interview about the Mk II. Mr Keinath states he does not know how many engines were built.

With all due respect, "after a change in the Daytona rules allowing for bigger displacement," is an incorrect statement.

NASCAR placed a 7 liter (427 cubic inches) cap on engine displacement for the the 1963 NASCAR season not just the Daytona race. This also means NASCAR put a limit on engine displacement---not increased it. In other words, there was not a cubic inch limit before the 427 rule so NASCAR did not change the rules "allowing for bigger displacement". Prior to the 1963 427 rule, Chevrolet could have raced in the 1962 Daytona 500, and later '62 races, with 454 cubic inch engines if they, in 1962, had built a production engine of that size. In fact the 1959 Ford NASCAR race cars had 430 cubic inch engines and by the rules, the '59 cars were allowed to compete in races during the 1959, 1960, and 1961 NASCAR seasons.

Rick

May I suggest Reading 101 for you.

Your comments have nothing to do with my above post. However your statement in your first post that NASCAR changed the rules to allow a bigger displacement is totaly wrong. The NASCAR rule change was to place a limit on engine size (cubic inches), not increase it. As I stated before in 1959 the Ford NASCAR race car had 430 cubic inches and was within the rules. I did not dispute the fact that the Mk II started out at 409 cubic inches. Everyone knows it did. I also never disputed anything Dick Keinath said. What I did do is dispute what YOU said.

Your statement: "I don't give a crap what you or anyone else says." ----- Of course you don't. The truth and historical facts conflict with your scewed view of history.

Just for your information: You do not have the right to tell me what to post. You keep posting incorrect info, as you often do, I'm going to challenge it. Maybe for you a little research would help. I'm not at all intimidated by your juvenile no-class name calling and I am wise to your frequent posting of extraneous information to create a smoke screen to cover up your lack of historical knowledge.

Rick aka Bozo

[1958 delivery]

Look clown,, this statement is out of the mouth of Dick Keinath, and I dont give a crap what you or anyone else says,including super chevy, chevy rumble, Fran Prev or any other mag or person

if Dick is wrong I still dont care, because he lived thru those days and the mystery motor started out as a 409 cube engine and was later changed to 427. hense the "s" designation on both the MKIs- 427 and MkIIs= 427

dont bother us with wrong info



I don't know either of you, but calling others terms like "clowns":cuss is totally uncalled for. You sir, need to take a chill pill or maybe your meds are overdue.

[models916]

I just don't know why. Do I look funny or something?

[models916]

Wasn't the early Tbird that raced in NASCAR 430 cubes?

[walkerheaders]

pretty sure that 430 ford was the "angle block" like the "W"

[NASCAR FAN]

For the the 1959 NASCAR racing season the Ford teams ran the '59 T-Bird with the optional 430 engine which was manufactured by Ford's Mercury-Lincoln division. The 430 is often referred to as the "MEL" (Mercury-Edsel-Lincoln) engine, but all the Ford divisions used it in one form or another. In 1958, Mercury built a special fleet of 430 powerd "Marauder" Mercurys for the California Highway Patrol. They were rated at 400 horsepower and had a lot of special features such as hi-perf. cast iron exhaust headers and special camshafts. The NASCAR '59 T-Bird 430 engines had some of these "special" parts because they were still listed in Ford's parts catalog. They were also allowed, by NASCAR, to run with solid lifter hi-perf. camshafts. The 410 (Edsel), 383 (Mercury) and 430 (Ford, Mercury, Lincoln) MEL engine had it's combustion chamber in the top of the cylinders, similar to the Chevy W engine. The famous finish line photo at the '59 Daytona 500 shows Johnny Beauchamp's T-Bird finishing second to Lee Petty's winning '59 Oldsmobile. From the photo the first car accross the line is a '59 Chevrolet but it was a lap down. The Olds and T-Bird probably crossed the finish line at 140 mph plus because earlier Cotton Owens (4th place finish) was clocked at over 143 mph in his '58 Pontiac. The 1959 348 Chevrolets were real "Hot Rods" and something for us Chevrolet fans to be proud of. Although a Chevrolet didn't win the race Bob Welborn sat on the pole of the first Daytona 500 with his 1959 Impala 348/320.

Rick aka Bozo

[rstreet]

Keep up the NASCAR postings Rick. I didn't get into it until a few years later and enjoy your history lessons
robert

[real61ss]

"Keep up the NASCAR postings Rick. I didn't get into it until a few years later and enjoy your history lessons"
robert



Me too...I was there when it was happening and I'm learning something everytime he posts.

[oil4kids]

Your statement: "I don't give a crap what you or anyone else says." ----- Of course you don't. The truth and historical facts conflict with your scewed view of history.




"scewed" the correct spelling is Skewed and is actually used correctly as i may have a quite different view of history after reading such Books as Sex, Lies and Super Speedways by Henry Smokey Yunick and the Best Damn Garage in Town...and
The World According to Smokey also
by Henry "Smokey" Yunick

and You see, he does not always quote the written and printed facts which are easily looked up. It is said that the people who win wars write the history books but you know there always another side of the story.

Years ago, Mr Keinath had stated to me it was the change in the Daytona rules that made him change the stroke on the mystery motor. Now, he also told me that 500 cube motors were also running at the Daytona and i dont remember anyone producing that size motor as an RPO. I believe it was one of those good ol moonshine boys who built Good ol Mr Wilsons 500 cube Z11 63 Impala. So I guess those big cranks were available to certain folk.

In fact, could you have walked into any chevy dealer in 1963 and purchase a 427 TurboJet motor? So how was that motor allowed to run in the 1963 Daytona anyway. Max cube motor should have been a 409 but somehow the good ol France family looked the other way. Is that in your Daytona rule book?

[NASCAR FAN]

Mark:

Thank you for the spelling and grammar lesson. In the future I will try to do better. I'm sorry you do not understand NASCAR's 7 litre rule and why Bill France allowed Chevrolet's Mk II engine. However, because of your attitude I will let someone else explain it to you.

Rick

[walkerheaders]

To: Nascar Fan Mark...........

when i first posted, i asked about the Ronnie Sox Z11 car whereabouts. the guy called Oil For Kids went above and beyond out of his way to be rude and try to be-little me. then had the nerve to phone call my header shop. I dont think he realizes it, so i let it slide.
even though i dont lose any sleep over what happened on the stock-car track when i was 5 years old........keep posting. thanx

[oil4kids]

Richard,

In honor of the holiday spirit, let me send you a copy of Smokey Yunicks " Sex, Lies and Superspeedways. Im sure Mr. Fox can back up a few of his tales.


Bob Walker, I have no idea what the heck your talking about, since i never called your shop and have no additional info on the Ronnie Sox Z11, other then to hear Good Ol Wilson tell a few good stories that never made it to the press.


from now on, I will let Senator Edward "Ted" Kennedy post my replies since he has a more stable driving record then me.

[NASCAR FAN]

Mark:

Thank you for the offer. It was very nice of you, but I already have it. I believe the original goes for about $75.00 now! Even after putting the automotive stuff aside, Smokey was still quite a character.

Rick

[oil4kids]

http://www.chevyrumble.com/ME2/Audiences/dirmod.asp?sid=&nm=&type=Publishing&mod=Publications%3A%3AArticle&mid=8F3A7027421841978F18BE895F87F791&tier=4&id=E660B66BC3EE46708EF2F70206C84A76&AudID=3042C2227EB048809E17F5A2AB5401FA



click the download button



Ted

[NASCAR FAN]

Mark, thank you for posting the article. I still wonder if the author's claim "about42" Mk II engines were built is true and where he received his information.

The author's statement, in comparing the the Mk IV 396 to the Mk II 427, : " with a bore-size reduction from 4.251 to 4.094 inches while leaving the 3.72 inch stroke as is" is incorrect.

Rick