348 & 409's getting more expensive?

[Richard/SIA]

It seems that with all the recent 348/409 publicity W's may be getting much more expensive.

It wasn't that long ago that I picked up my '60 348 core virtually complete for $300.

Searching Craigs-List at the time that seemed a fair but not outstanding price.

Now I consistently see people asking $1,500-$2,000 for 348 cores, "running when pulled"!
There's one on eBay right now, trying to start biding at $1,900. :eek:

409's seem to start at $2,000 for a truck block.
I think they are less speculator driven and perhaps more reasonably priced since they are harder to find.

I know higher prices benefit some people, but I know they can also result in the "W" engine becoming something only available to a small wealthy clique, which I think would be a shame. :grumble:

[bobs409]

Just look at the price of old cars in general too. I know I couldn't afford to buy my cars over again at todays prices. :eek: Then again, what is cheap these days? :dunno


Bob

[Tom Kochtanek]

I agree, prices have gone up due mostly to demand. As we know, the original iron is fixed on the supply side. It's still too early to determine the impact of newly poured aluminum on that fixed supply, and the demand for "W" parts.

I tend to acquire nearly every "W" part I come upon, and am still able to find parts and complete engines from time to time. But I spend a lot of time looking in places where no one else seems to want to go :). In my world a 348 engine is worth maybe a few hundred dollars, not a few thousand. I'll never pay $2500 plus for iron heads, or $2000 for a 409 block. You can still find this stuff if you are willing to wait and to "network" with local folks, and can travel to pick parts up.

Demand seems to be increasing, I wonder how long that will last? Now we have new supplies (heads, intakes, oil pans, etal) coming on the market, and this can stimulate new interest in the 409. So prices may go even higher.

Just think what a standard bore 1963 QB block is worth these days :).

Any other opinions?

TomK

[real61ss]

When it comes to original 348-409 parts, the prices just go up and up but the complete cars don't seem to sell for as much as they should.
List a 409 car on Ebay and you get all kinds of people wanting to know if it's original and if it isn't no one wants to pay anything for it but at the same time, these parts that are going for outragous prices have got to be being bought to build clone cars.
:dunno:dunno

[oldimpala]

Bob-

You nailed it...

In '93 I was 18, making $8/hour, and bought a workable '63 Impala Convertible 409/340/PG car. The 409 was in a box, essentially, and had a '66 283 in the car. It leaked, oozed, smoked, and was generally unpleasant to drive. :) It cost me $2,800. With a 90% complete 409 thrown in a box, needing a full rebuild (Tired, not broken).

Today, $2,800 might buy me the block/817's. I pay more in taxes than I made in '93, but couldn't afford the car, motor, or work needed to put it all together. I blame Mecum, Barrett-Jackson, and the like. They're driving the price of cars through the roof, and everything that goes with it.

Sad, but true.

I'm also a British car nut (Bentleys, Healeys, and Jags mostly), they haven't appreciated as quickly, mostly because the lack of auction attention that's brought to old American Iron.

Don't worry, though, like all bubbles... These prices will be at a fire-sale rate soon. People will begin selling the toys as the fad passes, and/or the prices begin to fall.

It's happening already in some fields (Harleys, for example, are selling slower, and prices are falling); just be the man with cash when it falls, and you'll make out well. :)

-Andy/Oldimpala

[dynoray]

not to add sarcasm or anything,but the 348/409 prices have been high for quite a while now.we were hoping that with all these aluminum parts coming out,that maybe the cast iron stuff would drop.who knows??? the last block i bought was about 6 years ago for $ 750.00. i thought that was fair.now,it's getting out of hand in my opinion.

[Tom Kochtanek]

It may be that there are at least two distinct markets for "W" parts.

One is the collector market, where period correct (not number matching, but for clones) parts are highly coveted. QB blocks will always be worth more to these folks than a truck block. 690 and 583 iron is precious. Dualpoint distributors as well. Those swept back 2.5 inch exhaust are additional examples of people paying toooo much for stuff. I hang out in this crowd a bit, but am on the low end.

The other is the performance market. These folk would sell their 690s for Bob Walla creations in a heart beat. They can't believe guys like me would build a stroker engine and then stick a stock 881 dual quad intake on top :). The new aluminum parts are a godsend for these folk. Aluminum blocks would be most welcomed...

I suspect these two blend a bit (I'm interested in period correct stuff, but respect the performance builds as well) for some folks. And there might be yet another market inside of those two, or aside from these.

What do you guys/gals think?

TomK

[real61ss]

Tom,
I think you are correct. A good example would be a 1961 409 motor. To a collector these motors are priceless, to a racer they are junk.
I think you have at least 3 classes, the racer, the collector and the guy who considers himself a semi-collector but wants to drive the old car some.
I'm not downing any of the above, there should be room for all of us in the hobby.

[boxerdog]

Tom K,
I'm with you. I know a few of the "numbers" guys, but I never quite saw the point; maybe I would feel differently if I had a rare car, but then I wouldn't be able to abuse it like I want to! So, I'd rather have a cherry truck block than a restorable/ thrashed QB.

I like the 2x4 look, and the 3x2s as well, but I hate iron manifolds and I would like stuff to work at least as well as a current Performer....

So I am somewhere "lost" in the middle!

[yellow wagon]

I'd love to get into 409s but the prices they demand are just ridiculous. I'm hoping with the recent additions of aluminum heads and the the introduction of an aluminum block on the way that there will be options for us non-rich guys. I'd LOVE a repop iron block over an aluminum one so I can dress it up to look old and slow :brow

[Tom Kochtanek]

It used to be you could buy and engine by the cubic inch, generally a dollar a cube. I once purchased a W engine from an old timer, he wanted $348 as he thought it was a 348. I let him know it was a truck 409 engine (complete but stuck). So he charged me $409 as per the formula. Of course there was a time when any engine running in a to-be-crushed car at the bone yard cost you $50. Those days are gone...

But I still think you can find a truck engine, maybe a stuck one, for $500. I've been able to do so. Maybe not for long, but there are a lot of folks who do not use the Internet and Ebay, etc. Then there are those who see the prices on Ebay or Barret-Jackson and think they've got one of those high priced engines, etc....

Not long ago I was able to purchase a few sets of 690 heads for $500 a matched pair. That was a good deal...but you can find these too if you look long and hard and act quickly with cash :). That's the key, you have to be ready and decide quickly with sometimes little firsthand information.

A few weeks ago I was at a garage sale and the guy had some old Pontiac parts and stuff. My buddy had a chance to buy them, but he wasn't prepared (no cash) and he let me have them. For $127 I got a 1964 GTO tripower intake with correct everything (carbs, tags, hoses) and a bunch of other Pontiac stuff. I gave them to my buddy, he's gonna clean up the tripower unit and we will sell it on Ebay someday. I get to place the ad, he gets the proceeds...

Cheers,
TomK

[WENGINE]

Its like that in everything not just car parts or 348/409 stuff. You want to talk about sad, I put a SBC together in 71 that put a 55 Chevy into the 12s at the track for 200 bucks. I couldn't get the gaskets for that now. Who Knows were it will stop. When I see parts I'm looking for I try to pick them up because if I dont for sure I'll see them 6 mo. a year later and they will be twice the price:doh.