409's in dragsters

[wagon409]

After owning a front engine dragster for a couple years, then being forced to sell, am thinking about getting another. I am a big 409 fan, and drive a 1962 409 wagon to school everyday and would love a 409 powered Front engine dragster. We have a 425 HP engine that needs some exercise.

Any pictures or stories about old FED's with W-motors....even better yet...with two W-motors?

Thanks,

Marc Rexroad

[jim_ss409]

Welcome aboard! I don't know of any 409 dragsters but I'd sure like to see one. Mayby you could get it together in time for the 348/409 Convention next fall. It'd look pretty cool on a trailer behind your 62 wagon.

[wagon409]

Yea, used to pull the chevy BBC 476 FED with the 409 wagon. Custom receiver hitch and brake controller worked really well. I'll post a picture when I have a chance. Ran in the mid 8's with the FED, what a blast.

[oil4kids]

409 dragster

[wagon409]

Too cool, and fuel injected to boot.

I heard that there was a guy building a car called the gravy train that at the time it ran at a goodguys meet had one 409 and they were just doing shake-down runs before putting the 2nd 409 in.....Now that would be cool..........818 cubic inches of W-motor!!!

Twice as fine if you ask me.

Thanks for the pic...any more...especially from back in the 60's?

Marc

[jester]

That must have been one hell of an 8 second trip... Good luck with the new one

[hrlykngt]

this is the origonal sight where the pic of the rail was posted. I read somewhere on this site that this is the rail you refered to about putting two moters in it later.

[hrlykngt]

http://www.draglist.com/Pictures/POD%20Jul%202000/POD-072100.htm

heres the link

[Fran Preve]

I noodled around in my mind a rear engine bracket dragster for my wife with a moderate 2x4 409, I figured high 8's, but it would have been just for fun.

[Phil Reed]

There was a guy, Errol Kampschroder, who campaigned a 27 roadster with a 409 in it. Errol lived outside of Topeka, Kansas. The car was called The Dutchman. Errol custom made an intake for a Hilborn fuel injection unit for it. Best time was 9.51 @ 149mph in the 1700# roadster.

I bought that engine about 13 years ago. Had it all this time and then sold it about a year ago. WISH I STILL HAD IT!!! Oh well...you know what they say about hind sight!!

I'll post a picture of it next week when I get back to the shop. We had it on a run stand and it would vibrate the whole building when we would fire it up!!! It will probably be at the convention!!!

[Fran Preve]

Phil: sounds like it would have made a great bracket motor in a RED today. Get their attention at Super Chevy's!.

[Tony Salins]

I own a 186" Rear Engine Dragster with a 409 in it. My wife and I bought the chassis in July of 2002. We rebuilt motor, trans, fit them into the rail and had it running by July of 2003. We spent the rest of last year racing it and getting a lot of seat time. Yes we both race the dragster! We have both been in the 10's with a best time of 10.03 @ 131mph. This is a very stock 409. It is .030 over, a nos Z-11 soild lifter cam and a single holly 800 cfm carb. We also own a 1962 Biscayne "409". We have owned it since 1971 (second owners). We are both gear heads and love to drag race both cars! We hope to see all of you at the convention. I would attach a picture but I don't know how. If anyone can help I'd be happy to attach some pictures.

[JIMS409]

Tony...we live about 20 minutes from RL. My wife has cousins there as well. Phil Reed told me about you once and we should get together sometime soon. I would love to see that rail!

:cheers

[wagon409]

Now I am jealous.

My wife and I also ran Super comp for a while, she in a 468 BBC Rear engine car, me in a 476 BBC Front engine car. The ideas of mufflers and such pushed us to go to street machines(not racing on the street, just cruisin).

But a 409 rail...how very cool. Do people even know what they are looking at when they see it? I would love to have a recording of what people say.

Well, sounds like you have a neat ride...enjoy it, and don't sell...trust me on that one.

[Phil Reed]

Tony:

May I have the honors????!!!!:D :D :D

Your car is TOO good not to be seen here!!!!

This is Photo #1

[Phil Reed]

This is Tony's slower ride!!!!!:D :D

May be the tow car!!

[dq409]

O,,,BOY,,,,, O,,,BOY,,,,,,, O,,,,Boy ,,,,!!!!

I CANT`T WAIT !!!!!!! Got my bags packed !!

Kansas City,,,, Kansas City here I come !! All join in now,,,,second verse same as the first !!

[fatride]

When we all meet in Kansas City there will be so much 09 eye candy I will never want to leave. If Sept. doesn't get her soon I'm going to run out of dough! I'm running out of space in the trunk of the Impala. Air bags, fuel pressure regulator, new shift light, electric fuel pump, new 3/8" sending unit , DOT slicks, MSD distributor, 2.5" dumps. And on the phone with Scooter Brothers about a solid roller cam! Remember, my 60 is just a driver.

:beerbang

[tripowerguy]

That car needs to be in KC in Sept. Along with the 409 tow car.:cool: Roy

[Fran Preve]

I am ABSOLUTELY blown away!. What a MORE than nice ride!. WOW!. Paint it black, put "Witch's Brew" on the side and it's my car!. Now, take off the headers, put on short stacks, take off the single four, put on 2x4's, 626 Carters will work, mill out the center dividers in the intake, and top it with a Hilborn type scoop.

Tell me more!. Transmission?, converter?,gears?.

PS: As sweet as your ride is, and it DOES blow me away, your 2 SECONDS off where it should be, OK maybe 1 and a 1/2. Wish I woulda done it now!.

[Tony Salins]

The trans is a powerglide type Dedenbear case with all after market HP parts. It was put together by a trans builder/designer that goes by the name Dr. Evil out of Schaumburg, Illinois. It has a Chrysler 83/4 rear with a 4:11 spool. The converter is an ATI 8" 4500 stall. Last year I used an old 800cfm Holley spread bore and to be honest it didn't work very good with the stock 400hp intake. I also used an old Mallory duel point distributor. This year we are going to use the new MSD billet distributor and a carb by Quick Fuel. I'm looking to keep the motor as stock as possible and still get into the nines. There are alot of younger racers that don't know what a "409" is, but we do our best to educate them. The older racers really get a kick out of the car.... they all seem to remember the dragster with the "09" and for us that is a big part of what it's all about!!! Thanks all of you for your comments. You made our day.

[Fran Preve]

I hope you milled out the divider in the intake, they did that where it was legal, Chevy did it on the L-88, not needed on a high RPM motor only. 4.11 seems to low with your rear tire, what RPM are you carrying thru the traps?. Oh, I don't know, I'd do it different (and wish I did!), seems a shame that you have the start of a real neat combo, it's a shame to hold it back like you are. I know that a 409 like I described previously will take you into the high 8's, and still not be a grenade. The 2 bolt mains and (relatively) weak rods are weak points. I sure hope you studded the mains and re-did the rods with a REAL good rod bolt!.

PS: anyone thinking of going the 454 crank/rods route should be aware that your WAY overloading the weak 2 bolt mains, and there's no easy way around it. Only my 2 cents. Blocks don't grow on trees.

[oil4kids]

Oh my my,

Throw the 800cfm Holley spread bore into the trash- they will never be like a normal Holley- Use a Barry Grant/ Demon carb it will wake up your 409, probably give you a 1/2 second.

I hope your not using the stock rods with even HD bolts they stink and also should be tossed I had explained this on a previous posting the cross section by the bolts is way to weak.

The arma steel mains are very strong and i doubt these are weak links when used with arp or sim. studs. They are just like the arma steel main caps in Big Pontiacs with 2 bolt mains and I have never seen a failure.

Keep up the good work !!!!!!!!!That rail looks great!

[Fran Preve]

Oil4, or anyone: Off hand I don't know but is a Mark 4 rod bg end the same as a 409?.

[oil4kids]

Fran

The BBC is a perfect replacement for the 409 but its longer by 0.135 so you have to use a special piston.

[Fran Preve]

Thanks oil4, I thought so. The special pistons wouldn't be so bad, you need custom domes probably anyway, maybe a special bore size too. The rods would solve a major problem with the 09,besides which I have a few sets of dimples lying around. I don't like the Mk4 crank as I've said, it's not REALLY needed unless you want to stroke out to bigger cubes, I just feel it's too much added weight to put on the 2 bolt caps. Personally I'd rather stud the mains, run a stock forged crank, add the Mk rods and custom pistons and limit it to 7 MAYBE 7500 RPM. I think the combo I came up with would do 500/500 (hp/ftlb) and would put a dragster like Tony's into the low 5's/high 8's shifting at 7 and not straining the bottom too bad. But I'd do something I rarely if ever see, I'd run a T-350 with a .56 rear. Why?, I run mainly at an 1/8 track and would use 1/2 for that with 3rd coming in when I ran the 1/4. Maybe that's wacky, but I'd try it just the same. Tony's tranny is WAY overkill, but I understand he had it so use it. If my "plan" didn't work I could always drop back to a long tail glide. Sad, sad, sad, I've got a BEAUTIFUL set of ported and polished x race heads, a rough core block but I sold the 2x4 and 625 CArters and Hilborn, coulda, woulda, shoulda........................

[oil4kids]

Fran

at the moment Im working with a 09 with a chevy 6223 forged crank, 6.385, bill miller rods and getting custom ross pistons
planning twin turbos to all go in a 64 Nova ala Harrell. The turbos were from callaway in old Lyme CT.

You may find it interesting that some of the guys at S&K Speedshop in the early 70s would weld up the mains of a 409 crank and stick it in a BBC. They would turn the motor 9000rpm with its short 3.5 stroke. I guess those 409 forged cranks were plenty tuff. I have the article if you want it posted.

[Fran Preve]

No that's OK, good to know the crank is a good one, and GOOD luck with your project, sounds neat. I like the short stroke, big bore and long rod idea too. Thanks.