Total Seal Rings

[dq409]

I`m getting ready to tear into my engine and rering it.
I want to use gapless rings, Total Seal, but they make so many different ones I`m not to sure which to use.
Anyone using them ? Any ideas? Part numbers?
Thanks,,,,dq

[Bungy]

Here is a little info I have on the Total Seal rings. They make 5 different sets that I know of. TSS, TS1, Max Seal, Classic, and claimer. The Classic set is basically stock with no gapless rings. The TSS set is for street and has gapless second ring with "premium" moly or chrome top ring. TS1 rings have gapless second ring and plasma moly top ring. Max seal rings have gapless top ring and conventional second and third ring. claimer sets have gapless second ring and moly top ring with low tension oil ring. Claimer sets rated for 11-1 compression or less. TSS 10.5 or less. TS1 and Max seal are rated for any compression ratio. Prices from cheapest to most expensive are: Classic, Claimer, TSS, TS1, Max Seal. I went with TSS on my street sbc but never did a compression check before rebuild so I can't compare. I think all sets are available in either 1/16 top and second ring and 5/64 top and second ring. You'll have to check with Summit or Jegs to get a part number depending on the set you want and your bore size. Hope this helps. Bungy

[dq409]

Thanks Bungy,,,

Thats good info !

I`m wondering which to use ,,,advantages/disadvantages

It`s looking like either the TS1 or Max from the info you gave as the higher compression in the `09.

What is the difference in chrome moly and plasma moly ?

This will be a street and strip engine,,,

[MRHP]

I built a sbc with total seal rings. My machinist did not hone the cylinders with the proper grit stone and the rings did not seat properly. This was a drag only motor and saw 7500 rpm. I have talked with others that have used these rings and none of us would use them again. Especially on a street motor. One fella even did compression tests through the year with and without gapless rings. Compression was within 5 psi between both sets of rings. I would hesitate to use those rings in your motor. :( Nothing wrong with a set of premium cast or moly rings. They have been used for years and perform quite well.

[fatride]

Jim
No such animal as chrome moly rings, their either chrome,(which you don't want for a street engine) or moly. Moly rings are a cast iron ring with a channel filled with molybdenum-spray which molecularly bonds itself to the cast iron. Chrome rings should only be used in situations where an air cleaner would not be used. ;)

[Bungy]

DQ, I guess I should have stated a little clearer. The TSS sets are stated as having "premium moly OR chrome rings depending on your application". I don't know what Total Seal would consider giving you. Maybe you just request which ones when ordering. I don't know the diff between regular moly and plasma moly. Anyone else? MRHP why wouldn't you use these rings? Because of the price difference vs regular rings? I always thought these would be better for street type applications that put on more miles then a race motor/engine. As the cylinder wears the ring gap expands with regular rings but with gapless the gap will always be zero no matter how much bigger the cylinder gets.

[dq409]

Thanks,,,,,
When I was a car diesel machanic (Peugeot) we used Total seal rings on engines where the customer didn`t want to spend the extra money on a fresh bore and pistons with great results!
Just a hand hone and the rings.
These cylinder were prone to be out of round (oval) and the engines had masive blow-by but when we were done we had great compression and no blow by with a long life.

One other thing,,,
You talk about doing compression tests ,,,but a truer reading would come from a leak down test,,,,,,

Thats why I was considering them,,,, Thanks for the input,,,dq

[fatride]

I don't think there is such a thing as a true gapless ring, there would be no way to put the ring on the piston, the gapless ring is a compression set for the first or compression ring consisting of a number of rings that go in the first ring grove. The end gaps of this "gapless" set are then staggered much like the ring stagger of a whole piston ring set. Kinda makes a gap free ring!

[MRHP]

The reason I would not use these rings again is not the cost. Cost does not really factor in when building a competition motor. I just do not see the benefit of this style ring. I have heard more problems with this style ring than any other. I have also heard longevity problems with this style. I may be narrow minded on this subject because a set of these rings have caused me problems in the past. The engine was using oil. It still managed to take a first place and a second place for the year. I had also thought of this ring for my 474 but went with a cast. Old technology I know, but will work trouble free for years. Just my thoughts on the subject.:D Brian

[dq409]

It`s been years since I`ve worked with gapless ring but if I remember correctly they are gapless.
The compression ring has a top and bottom ring that overlaps,,,
Total Seal (http://www.totalseal.com/gaplesss.html)

[MRHP]

Look at the picture of the "gapless ring". Not gapless are they?;)

[fatride]

Bungy, I hope you don't think I was trying to correct you! I know by your post what you were talking about in reference to Chrome "or" moly rings. I was trying to clarify the difference for DQ.
:cheers

[dq409]

THANKS GUYS !!!

Brian,,,,,, Thats one of the reasons I thought of using them,,,, longevity!!
Looks like it`s back to the standard tried and true !!,
I don`t want to pull this apart for a longgggg time !!
Already done it more times then I`ll mention !!,,,dq

[dq409]

This article was emailed to me,,,,,,, Childs and Alberts (http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/43309/index.html)

[walkerheaders]

i'm pretty sure nobody knows more about rings than C&A. but everything sounds good while the salesman has you by the hand.....i wish i was getting paid to endorse them. i have whipped they"re rings and alum rods with no mercy. actually i'm afraid to try any other brand.
i use the same machine shop that most of the DIV.1 super stock racers go to.
the only time they had me buy zero gap second was when my block was tired and i refused to bore it. other than that, we use the plasma moly set. (same in my 409) K.I.S.S.

keep it simple sir

[Bungy]

Ray, Not at all. After I reread it I could see where someone could interpret it as chrome moly.:)

[Super(sport)Man]

Originally posted by dq409
This article was emailed to me,,,,,,, Childs and Alberts (http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/43309/index.html)

'Tis what I'm currently running in my 406.

Leakdown is almost non-existant, and compression is consistant throughout all 8 holes.