348 marine numbers

[kevymco]

Hello again,

Fran, I was able to obtain some info on the marine 348 that I have. It has a marine tag on the engine with the engine builders name and model numbers. The is "Pacemaker marine engines" and the model number is "LH280" Does the "LH" posibly stand for the engine rotation?

Also, the block number is 3755011-1458. I looked up the numbers and it states that its a block from a car from 58-60.

Bob W, I'm not interrested in racing my v-drive, nor was the boat originally equiped with this 348. I just wanted to built a v-drive boat stictly for pleasure. Of course, I do want the boat to be reasonably quick. I came into possesion of the 348 by someone knocking on my door and offering me this 348, so I bought it hoping it would work well in my 17.5 foot hondo v-drive.

Would the 348 marine not have more horsepower than the stock 348 car engine?

[walkerheaders]

cool if your not racing, you called it a dragboat so i assumed.......
if your boat is a flat flatbottom and not a runner flatbottom, the 348 will keep you from getting hurt. theres a big difference between a v-drive boat and a dragboat w/ a v-drive. is your cavitation plate all one piece? if so, thats a flat-flat. one of the scaryiest rides i ever took was in one of those. (we were only going about 30mph and the thing was out of control and i wasnt behind the wheel) if your cav plate is three seperate plates and the center plate being lower by 5/8 thats a runner bottom. i went 147 in one of those. id like to see your boat, i've had several Hondos. does yours have the dash cutaway? thats for getting thrown out without breaking your legs under the dash!

i have a headers jig for flatbottom boats and could make a set of "W" over transom headers for you.

[Fran Preve]

Kevy: Pacemaker was a brand of boat so it's a boat manufacturers conversion. The "LH" stands for left hand rotation
(BobW, is that standard rotation or opposite?). The 280 MIGHT be the horsepower rating.

[kevymco]

Bob, I'm not even sure what make the boat is. It looks very similiar to most of the dragboats that I've seen on the internet. The boat does not have any numbers anywhere that I could see. The person that sold it to me said that it was a homebuilt???
The cavitation plate is one piece, and there is no cutaway. I will try to take a picture of the boat and maybe you can tell me what it is.
I obviously don't know a lot about setting up one of these boats. I have the 348 marine engine that is complete, however I don't have the driveshaft,coupler,prop and engine mounts. I do have the factory exhaust logs that came with the 348, but a set of headers from you would definately be really cool!!!

Is there any important measurements that I should be aware of before bolting the engine down. ie. the angle of the engine, the height, how far from the transfer case?

Fran, so you think it is a left hand rotation? Is 280 horse the average horse power for a 348?

[Fran Preve]

KEV: Walker can tell you is lefthand rotation is normal or opposite, I can't tell you port from starboard (I have it written on my boat. I'm PRETTY sure LH is standard rotation. The "280" in the number stands for SOMETHING!. What?. My guess is horsepower. A standard 348 had 250 hp, a tri power 280, then up from there. 280hp seems like a likely horsepower rating. Your exhaust manifolds (cast iron) should have a value to a restorer, but not enough to cover custom headers. For YOUR purpose I'd suggest a simple design (read cheap) and then have then coated in and out, and think about mufflers, open exhaust grows tiresome anad there are laws about how much noise you can make. Then there's water cooled vs not.........

Let's try this all over, are the manifolds iron or aluminum?. If their aluminum stop right there. If they're iron go back to above. See the photo's of the marine motor with the aluminum manifolds to see what I mean. They're simply the best manifold for a "street" boat like your describing. If they're iron they're next best, again for a "street" boat. Headers like BobW is talking about are best for HIS kind of boat and the only way to go, and I'm sure he does it well.

Driveshaft and coupler are easy, inboard pieces. Prop is more difficult, pick the right one the FIRST time, they're expensive!. BobW can steer you towards the right one. Motor mounts will have to be fabbed, front and rear, they attach to the stringers. You didn't mention it but what is the transmission?.

Finally, how much is the motor going to cost in the end?. I mean get all the parts you need to finish the conversion and maybe a simple rebuild?. How good is the boat?. If it's homemade is it wood or fiberglass?. If it's fiberglass it's probably factory. How's the interior?, all done?.

Finally, is this going to be a decent ski type boat?, of just a cobble job with a "W" block motor?. Figure out the amount of work involved, and money, and take it from there.

[bobs409]

I remember seeing 2 boat motors for sale on ebay a long time ago and they listed them as 280 hp's so that's probably what it is.

[kevymco]

Fran,
When I originally bought the boat, I planed on building an engine and taking many years to do it. The boat is fiberglass and in very good condition. It has a casale v-drive and nicson steering, cavatation plate.

The engine is a complete marine engine with alternator, water pump, fuel pump, carb and cast iron water cooled exhaust. I was told that the engine was just rebuilt, which is believable when you see that the heads have been sand blasted and the block is still relatively clean.

So, I'm expecting this boat to be pretty cool especially for the cost that I had to put into it.

Bob, any ideas on what pitch and diameter prop to use for this boat. 17.5 ft boat, with appr 280 hp. Your probably not used to working out prop sizes for such low HP!!!!

[Fran Preve]

Kev: Now it sounds like a better boat, I like the brand names of the drivetrain. Everything is in the details. Maybe Jet Coat the cast manifolds?.

[walkerheaders]

Fran, so you think it is a left hand rotation? Is 280 horse the average horse power for a 348?

re: spin the rotor button aginst the springs, if it turns counterclocwise, so does the engine. look at the firing order of the wires. dead givaway

(BobW, is that standard rotation or opposite?). The 280 MIGHT be the horsepower rating.

re: the casale vdrive is configured to have a normal (rh) rotation engine

The person that sold it to me said that it was a homebuilt???
The cavitation plate is one piece, and there is no cutaway.

re: re: the 348 will keep you from getting hurt.

Is there any important measurements that I should be aware of before bolting the engine down. ie. the angle of the engine, the height, how far from the transfer case?

re: plenty but if the casale is mounted, your driveshaft cover and bellhousing will need to be inline with it. your seats will determine fore and aft position. any chevy flatbottom bell housing will fit a 348 so thats simple, just pretend it's a 396.
REX Marine can fix you up with the missing items.

Bob, any ideas on what pitch and diameter prop to use for this boat. 17.5 ft boat, with appr 280 hp. Your probably not used to working out prop sizes for such low HP!!!!

re: probably 11-1/2 x 15 depends on your shaft and hull layout. REX can help.

the iron manifolds will be fine and quiet. is this a nose drive engine? you'll need to drive the casale off the rear of the engine like a car. that mounts the engine in the boat backwards and requires a front sump oilpan for any hotrodding.

it'll be cool, i have some "W" powered ski boat pics. if i can find, i'll post. so lets see your project pics

[Fran Preve]

Kev/Bob: Let's start this again, I'm confused.

Engine: The engine is a Pacemaker (brand) model LH280. It's a 348 with cast iron manifolds. From this we THINK it's,
a) From a Pacemaker boat, Pace's were cruisers rather than runabouts, and many cruiser (style boats) were twin engine.
b) Twin engine boats had one RH rotation (standard rotation, like in a car), and LH rotation which were opposite rotation (they run backwards). I made an educated guess that the LH in the model numbers meant left hand rotation, or opposite rotation.
c) Changing to RH (standard rotation). Bob, tell me what I left off, cam, distributor, water pump and fuel pump. And take the engine part and rebuild it. Rebuild it as a performance 348 passenger car motor, special parts would only (?) be the water pump.
d) Horsepower rating 280?. Just a guess, the number is there for SOME reason!. It would be easier if it were a 409 the rating would make more sense, anyway, Pace can rate it anywhere they want, just like Merc did with their big block MK IV.
Drive:
Assuming this is correct then (according to Bob) the rotation has to be changed back to standard (RH) rotation to connect to the Casale V drive. The Casale V drive can be either a model 62200, straight V drive, can't shift running, model 62260 in and out, can shift with engine running or model 62174 Fwd-Ntrl-Rev. The F-N-R box cost twice as much as an in/out box so my guess is it's at best an in/out-shift while running box. Then Bob's prop recommendation is close, a 12x15 would also work, and probably others. (Isn't it nice to have a magazine/catalog collection, I dug out a Stevens catalog from about 1970).

Bob: These are just some ideas, correct me where I'm wrong, my experience is with straight drive cruiser engines rather than V-drive ski boats.

Kev; send us pictures if you can. This project may be more than you want to take on, but Bob is right, when it's done it would be a neat toy, especially with the W block.

Bob: After much thought I came up with this, RH (standard rotation) is the engine I stand over, which would mean the other engine would be LH (opposite rotation). Right?. Now all I gotta do is figure out an easy way to remember port and starboard!.

[Loafer409]

May sound a little silly but I just remember that port and left have 4 letters in them....by process of elimination that makes right, starboard....works for me:D :D ...09

[kevymco]

This could be a bad thing if the casale v-drive is designed to work in a right hand rotation and the engine being a left hander.

Why would it matter for the v-drive? Never taken one apart, but would they not be just spur cut gears in them?

By the way Fran, I think that it is an in/out v-drive while running. No reverse and no transmission between.

Yes, powdercoating the iron exhaust would look o.k. I just have to find a way to get it to go over the transom. The way it is, its very close to the fiberglass.

I don't have a camera, but will try to borrow one and take pics so that you can see what the set-up is.

[Fran Preve]

Kev: I'd have to see the boat and manifolds to suggest an exhaust. None of this is a major deal, we'll wait until we see photo's.

[kevymco]

Fran/Bob, still working on getting pics.

Trying to figure the direction of the engine. I turned the distributor collapsing the spring and let it go, and it turned in the right hand rotation. Also, the transmission that came with this engine was bolted to the front of the engine. That would be why Pace labeled it as a left hand rotation. I have the engine semi-mounted to be driven from the ring gear, (rear) facing forward towards the v-drive, this would mean that it should now rotate in the right hand rotation, right??

(More history) The person that sold me the engine also had another engine that was the mate for my 348. The reason the owner had removed the pair of engines is because the boat was always pulling to one direction. The owner had them both rebuilt, thinking this would fix the problem. Guess what, problem was still not fixed. So, the owner pulled both engines and sold them to a friend of mine.

I know this is long story but I'm getting there!!

My friend having stored these engines in his shop for many years, later found out that the reason the boat was pulling to one side is, that the other engine was a 409. The 409 having more hp made the boat pull to one direction. I don't know why the marina didn't figure this out.

When he showed me the 348 that I purchased, the 409 was next to it. I tried to purchase the 409 from him, but he didnt want to sell it because he found out that it was a high output engine. (too bad!)

Thats my story!!

[walkerheaders]

Trying to figure the direction of the engine. I turned the distributor collapsing the spring and let it go, and it turned in the right hand rotation. Also, the transmission


re: if it turned clockwise against the springs and the plug wires are layed out as 18436572 (clockwise) then your in business. toss that nose drive, and get a bellhousing, flywheel, driveshaft, front pulleys and motor mounts for a small block, for a water pump, get a W motor pump, there everywhere, or go electric. you should have an easy time of this. if not, or you get stuck, ask for help. between all the folks here, we could have you ready by the weekend. go for it.

mount the propshaft under the boat then measure and see what diameter prop you can fit. a 12inch prop may hit. you want a minimum 1-1/2 inch clearance. obviously you purchase a 2 blade unit. 12x16 means: 12 dia. 16 inch pitch (distance threaded thru water per revolution) it takes alot of power to turn that one that size. i recommend 11-1/2 x 15 2 blades and no more than 18% overdrive in the casale.

[walkerheaders]

cant recall the bellhousing brand anymore. they all work similar. they mount the motor to the stringers with some angle brkts, and on the front, theres a flange the driveshaft cover mounts to and the cover is an inner-outer deal for adjustable length the driveshaft looks straight out of a truck! telescoping and 1350 joints.

hope you guys enjoy the pic. shot from the bridge over the susquhanna in harrisburg pa. at the boat drags fall 1995.

this is not the boat in my picture gallery. that one was "QWIK-SHOT" a hondo. this one is a Sanger runnerflat called "Full Tilt Boogie" it did fly for a heavy boat. i went 8.80s @127 in that one.

originally it was a blown alky circle track boat. my little 468 with a fogger was just tickling this hull.

i miss dragboats .............for about an hour per year.

[kevymco]

Bob, I just measured the propshaft. (its already installed in the boat) At the end of the shaft, it is 8 inchs to the bottom of the boat. The shaft is 1" diameter. I'm not sure how far the prop will seat onto the shaft.

Do you think that the 348 will turn a 2 blade prop? I can't wait to try the boat this summer.

I'll try shoping on e-bay for the prop and power take off to bolt the driveshaft. Should I try to find a perticular driveshaft out of a truck?

The 348 already has a marine water pump, ring gear and bellhousing. The bellhousing is cast iron and has legs on it to attach to the stringers. And it has a hole in the middle.

Would the power take-off from any bbc work on the 348?

That's a great pic by the way. I hope talking about dragboats gets you into it again:)

[kevymco]

Bob,
One more thing, how do I know what exactly the overdrive is on the casale that I have. Is it written on it, or do I have to measure it?