Z-11 Project

[Phil Reed]

TomK and Travis have mentioned our set of Z-11 heads over at Tony Shafer's machine shop. We finished up this project and delivered it about a month ago. I took some pictures and thought I'd post them here for you to look at. It will take many posts to get here what I think most of you would like to see so bear with me!!!

We didn't get to finish the detail with painting...the customer wanted to do that himself so this is not all pretty like we like to make them!!

Yes Bob and Wrench.......you don't need to ask!!!!

[Phil Reed]

The other side!!

[Phil Reed]

Z-11 head showing the guide plate installation.

[SS425HP]

Isn't that pretty. I want it :mad:

Fred

[Phil Reed]

This is the intake side. The Z-11 head had the first big block intake port design. This was a major improvement over the 690 and 583 heads!!

[Phil Reed]

Here is a picture of both Z-11 and 690 heads so you can see the differences.

[SS425HP]

Per Curt Harvey, 30+ horse power just right there.

[Phil Reed]

You can see here how much taller the Z-11 head is.

BETTER FLOW.....DON'T YA KNOW!!!!!

[Phil Reed]

Here's the intake side for comparison. Z-11 on the left and 690 on the right.

[Phil Reed]

This shows the head gasket surface.

Notice how the Z-11 intake valves on the left are not real shiny...that's because these heads were TOTALLY untouched....no porting...which is unheard of.....that we used all 8 original intake valves when we rebuilt them!!!! Most heads have been "worked" so much that you have to spend alot of time getting them back to "original". Not these.....they had never been touched!! A real virgin set of heads!!!

[SS425HP]

Phil, as easy as it seems to be to get castings today, why can't we get someone to cast the Z-11 heads and intakes? Surely someone would do it. Lamar's stuff was just too pricey. But, maybe that's what it has to be. Just seems like the technology today would lend itself to good heads and a lower price.

Fred

[Phil Reed]

Here's a shot of the Z-11 2-piece intake manifolds in the installed position.

[Phil Reed]

Here is the intake separated. The vally pan seals off the top half of the engine while the intake is all carbs and runners to the heads!!

[59elcooldsuv]

WOW!

[Phil Reed]

Here is the intake system with carbs. The Z-11 used the same carbs as the 425HP...3361-S for the front and 3362-S for the rear. The is a shot from the passenger's side.

That is the special Z-11 only fuel filter. Had 5 made about 5 years ago....this is the last one!!

[Phil Reed]

Here's the view from the driver's side. Carbs have all been restored and recolored. They really look better in person!! It's really a sin to put fuel in them!!

[Phil Reed]

Here are the 2 water pumps I had rebuilt. One is dated jan. 15, 1963 and the other is Jan. 16, 1963!!

Of course, the Z-11 water pumps are aluminum. They are kinda rare too!!!:D :D

[SS425HP]

That's recoloured for up north!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Heehee;)

[Phil Reed]

Both of these pumps had a unique feature. They had both the Pre-production or engineering number...that's the 0-217949 number and the regular 7 digit GM part number.

Well...that's it for now. Hope you enjoy!!! Now...we have to go look for another one!!!!!

[Tom Kochtanek]

Phil:

Those heads and that block look sooooo much better than when I last saw them bare. And I thought that was a pretty neat sight :)

Congrats on a job well done, and thanks for sharing the pics. Please tell me that the engine is going in my '62 and not some guy's truck :)

Best,
TomK

[bobs409]

Originally posted by Phil Reed
Here are the 2 water pumps I had rebuilt. One is dated jan. 15, 1963 and the other is Jan. 16, 1963!!

Of course, the Z-11 water pumps are aluminum. They are kinda rare too!!!:D :D


Phil,

Do these have the winters foundry mark (snowflake) on them? I thought the aluminum Z-11 pumps were made there. ?


Bob

[bobs409]

Originally posted by Phil Reed

Yes Bob and Wrench.......you don't need to ask!!!!

Phil,

Does this mean what I think it does? Can I use some of these pics on this site? PleasePleasePlease? :D

[Phil Reed]

Bob:

I will need a release signed by you in order to do what you want to do.

Having said that, the third week of September here would be a perfect time to do that!!!!!!:deal I would need to watch you sign in person just to make sure!!!!:D :D

If you want to go ahead and post the pictures, you have to "promise" on a set of 690 heads that you will be here for the Convention to sign my release!!!!

[brisbane47]

Phil, your photographs should help a lot of people understand the parts involved in a Z11. Is the oil pan one that had a deeper sump added and the sides (leaded) recountered to make it look like one piece? I have one of them from GM engineering. The other question, where were the carburetors redone? I will talk to you soon, (I am really getting busy right now) I am having my Pontiac photographs scanned to see if I can get them in a gallery. See ya, TS

[bobs409]

Phil,

Maybe if you move this event further east. :D Im afraid, it's too far for me. A long trip for me is about 30 miles. :p I do expect lots of pics from everyone though.

Where is the 2nd annual 348-409 convention going to be held? Maybe a different location each year to give everyone a chance to attend? (I can hear it now- ;) )


Bob

[AG409SS]

Phil,


I have a couple of questions. Do you know what the actual overall length of the intake valves are? I know they are supposed to be longer, but I'm not not sure what was actually original/correct from Chevrolet.
Also, I've noticed on intakes that I have that the later casting has a firing order incorrectly cast in

as 18463572, and the earlier one has the firing order as 8436572. Are these typical, or do I have a couple of goofy 3830623 castings?

Don

[bubbletop61]

Phil
Thanks for posting all these pics. It is a great chance for those of us that never get anywhere near this stuff, to learn about and appreciate what was in a Z-11 engine. The comparison of Z-11 to standard heads was really a great way to present this.
Thanks a heap
Gar

[Fran Preve]

Phil: YOU DA MAN!> Your posting of the excellant pictures explain MUCH more than pure words could say alone. Put me own as THANKS A LOT!.

[Fran Preve]

Forgot, what's the going price for a set of these heads?. And I agree, someone should be able to re-po these given how easy it seems to be (I've got a set of factory 583 blue prints around here somewhere). But I would think with todays CAD/CAM it wouldn't be hard to come up with something. I mean for cripes sake, they're re-poping ordinary small block cast iron manifolds now!.

Along those lines, is Lamar stillselling re-pop 2 piece intakes?. What are his prices like today?

PS: the problem with re-popping these heads has a "how many can you sell" barrier. If this ever comes to pass watch the price of good used blocks skyrocket1, nostalgia racers will join the W club in droves!.

[JimKwiatkowski]

Phil,does the owner of this fine looking engine have the car body that this engine came out of?If he has the car did he give you any history?

[wrench]

These are photos I've been searching for. The detail is fantastic! The subject matter - superb!

I'll start a Z-11 page ij my Gallery this weekend!

As always, Phil's da man.

And of course - thoughts & prayers for Fred and his wife.

Ya'll take care.

:cool:

[dave62]

Hi All, I think this is my first post here, although I do visit and read everything often. I am a Product Designer with extensive experience in 3D cad solid modeling(Pro-Engineer software). Although I don't have much backgound in designing casting tooling I know I could surely model any head casting part. But that would require actually having the head to measure all it's features accurately, but something tells me I'd have a hard time getting my hands on those z-11 heads....hehehe. Seriously it would require someone to have them manufactured, but it would be fun design work.

[wrench]

Lamar Walden already has done so. His are aluminum. I remember some message thread from the past on the old site about heads and intakes but I don't know where the conversation ever went.

Check the Exotic Engines page on my website. You can see his whole 409/Z type product line there.

:cool:

Wrench's 409 Site (http://wrench.vox.org)

[Fran Preve]

Wrench: you have a great web site!. But I couldn't find Lamars parts, missed it somewhere. I enjoyed it, others should go take a look.

[59elcooldsuv]

Originally posted by dave62
I am a Product Designer with extensive experience in 3D cad solid modeling(Pro-Engineer software). Although I don't have much backgound in designing casting tooling I know I could surely model any head casting part. But that would require actually having the head to measure all it's features accurately,

Greetings fellow Model-Space-Cadet. I've been wanting to get trained in ProE. I've been using Autocad for about 10 years. You can see one I did in a thread titled "Compression Ratio Model".

I've been using some of my spare time to try to design a fuel injection manifold that looks like the old Rochester "dog-house" mechanical inj manifold from about 1957 - 1959, but to fit my 348. That ought to blow some minds!

I figure if I can't find someone to cast it then I can slice apart my 3d model to make templates to cut pieces of alum plate & weld it together - then machine to tolerance and sand blast it until it looks like cast.

As you say, the tough part is getting your hands on the real thing to take measurements off of. Right now I"m just trusting the calipers hidden in my eyeballs to look at pictures of them. I understand a real Rochester injection manifold can cost a shipload of dough.

Save yer revisions!

[Fran Preve]

Too bad they didn't, pre-production planning records dating VERY early 1957 show Chevrolet HAD planned a fuel injection "W" block.Did they build experimental versions?, probably, it remained as a listed pre-planning RPO for some time.

[dq409]

Lamars heads,,,,,:D

[dq409]

Or,,,, Order the whole thing !!

[wrench]

Wrench: you have a great web site!. But I couldn't find Lamars parts, missed it somewhere. I enjoyed it, others should go take a look.

Thanks Fran.

The pictures of Lamars engines are on the Exotic Engine page. Check photos 4 ~ 10. A couple more further down the thumbs.

wrench

:cool:

[Fran Preve]

Thanks wrench, WOW, that's the way to go!. Ok money bucks (how much?) but what an engine!. Seriously, that motor with a Hilborn scoop and stock valve covers in that dragster the guy has under "Racing Days'. Too much money?, heh, heh, heh, use it when your going after sponsors, publicity by the ton at the track. As in "she's Real Fine.." sponsored by (fill in the blank). To get a sponsor it helps to have a "hook". That is one sweet looking motor thanks wrench.

[wrench]

Thanks wrench, WOW, that's the way to go!

You're welcome again. I'm merely a collector of those photos. The photos of cars and engines on my site are owned by the real heroes of Chevyhood. The owners! I do have one car, two 09's.

It's my desire to restore the car and cruise the meets like I did in the 70's.

Those were the days!

:cool:

[Fran Preve]

Wrnch: yes they were (sigh).

[dq409]

Originally posted by Fran Preve
Wrnch: yes they were (sigh).

No reason to sigh !!! With a "W" powered car you`re right back there !!!! Better then ever !!!,,, dq

[Skip FIx]

There are several companies that cast "real" Pontiac stuff. A NEW design head(not the Edelbrock) is coming out currently from KRE.Butler is reproing the old RAIV heads and intake manifolds with better flow, 2-3 new Pontiac blocks, one in aluminum. One company that specializes in every one of the high performance exhaust manifolds(repro W manifolds they probably could do they said). There is probably a little more demand fpr Pontiac stuff than for a W part but with all the new computer stuff seems like not an impossible task .

I've got one of those Z-11 water pumps who rebuilds them Phil?

[Skip FIx]

Phil with the rarity of those heads wouldn;t a one piece stainless valve be littl "insurance" not to pull a head off?