60 ft. times

[tripowerguy]

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to improve my 60 ft. times. My times were 2.39 to 2.89. I feel that that is slow and the car feels slow out of the hole. I was wondering if the 1 in.spacers under the carbs might be the reason. They really improve the mid and upper range but maybe they are robbing me of low end. Anyone have any suggestions? The spacers are the same size as the throttle bores. :help Roy

[JimKwiatkowski]

Roy,Heating up them back tires till the back of your car is covered in smoke :D

I think your 60 ft times are determined in the water box traction on your launch is most inportant (spining tires on your holeshot cause bad 60 ft times ). :D

Here's how I do it I installed a line lock on my front brakes to lock my front brakes when my rear wheels are in the box and free to spin.I'll break my tires loose and rev the engine till I get alot of smoke off them rear tires and nice and hot then I then flip my brake line switch and come burning out of the water box :D

[JimKwiatkowski]

Roy, I didn't read that right you have low power on the line.

[dq409]

Roy, I can`t remember what trans you are using but you could be launching under your cam power.
Mine improved with a higher stall converter.
If your running a stick ,,,,more RPM`s.
Sticky tires !!! ,,dq

[fatride]

4.11s minimum! :brow

[Steve "wully bully"]

Roy,
Can you provide more details about your combination? Engine CID, Trans, Rear Gears, Etc?
Steven

[tripowerguy]

It is a 58 Chevy Bel Air 2dr ht. 348 engine, .30 over pistons with 9.5 compression? 409hp solid lifter cam from Crane, Comp Cam dual springs 120lbs. seat pressure, 290 lbs open pressure. 58 tripower carbs, 61 jets in end carbs and 58 in center. drilled out shooters for accel. pumps. 200 4R trans. with BM 2000 stall converter 3.73 rear gears. :dunno Roy

[dq409]

My guess is you can`t get enough launch RPM due to your tight converter.
what is your launch rpm`s now?

Also are you running your tri-power with progressive linkage?
If so I believe your launching on a two barrel,,,,

Maybe fatride could help there,,,dq

[jim_ss409]

The 200 R4 has about 2.74 first gear so with the 3.73's thats not a bad setup. (10.22 to one total) It'd be faster of the line with more gear, assuming the traction is there, but it's not bad. And the 2,000 rpm converter's not bad either. Again a higher stall speed would be quicker but it's not bad. It sounds like a pretty good setup for a car that's mostly used on the street. What does it do of the line? Does it bog or do the tires spin excessively?

[fatride]

4.11s are a must for the strip even with the 200R. 348 hasn't enough stroke to pull you through the launch with anything less. I ran 4.11s with a 350 turbo and my 60' times were 2.00. Felt good out of the hole. I ran a 2400 B&M hole shot converter. I swapped this out for a 700 R4 and 4.11s with an almost stock converter with the same 60' times. I haven't ran the 09 at the strip yet but I expect better 60' times with the same setup. Progressive linkage is a good setup for street and strip. The lag time with progressive linkage untill the other two carbs are full in is almost non existent. If you can nurse it to the line, run the three two's with solid linkage, you will not belive the throttle response with it hooked up this way. That is with my setup! I have .5" spacers. It took me at least 12 attempts, that is, I had the carbs apart that many times to get to this point. It would blow the tires off instantly, needed slicks. Tell me how you come out of the hole? I found that my setup would come out better if I came out from an idle or just up against the converter. If you try to come out at a higher stall you are into the primary carb far enough that you may have the accelerator pump plunger positioned half way through the stroke in the center carb, when you floor it you may be lacking enough pump shot from the primary carb. The result would be less than full power on launch! I ran 1/2 tank of fuel for ballast. Pull around the water with street tires. Water will hide between the tread untill you spin the tires out of the hole, this will cause you to lose traction. Pull around the water and pop the tires a couple of times coming to the line to clear any pebbles or debris from the tread. Run 45-50 psi in the front tires. Street Radial tires will most times require more psi at the strip for best contact patch. No burn out reqiured with street tires, save the show for the drive in. I run with the oil at operating temp and the water at 160. This keeps the intake manifold cool, push the car through the staging lanes engine off.
:brow

[tripowerguy]

I do not burn out on street tires, I drive around the water. I wait until the first yellow and come up against the converter and there is no bog. It seems that the car is slow at accellerating up until it hits 3000 rpm then it is like a kick in the pants. I shift at 6000 rpm although it seems to want to go on past that. It usually hooks up and doesn't blow the tires off. A couple of times it has. Thanks guys for the info, I bought the 4:11's off DQ and now it seems it would be a good idea to put them in. :hug Roy

[Steve "wully bully"]

Roy,
It sounds to me that your converter is too tight, that it isn't allowing your engine to reach its power band until you are moving. Although a loose converter is no good on the street, you may have to make a compromise. We ran an 8" in the sedan, when we had the auto in, it would flash to around 5500, which was about our torque peak. What you could try, instead of replacing the converter, after you install the 4.11's, see if you can stage at a lower rpm. If it doesn't bog when you drop the hammer, it will flash the converter, giving you a higher effective launch rpm. I used to stage between 2500-3000 when I footbraked the auto, and the car would almost lift the tires on launch.
Good Luck,
Steven

[dq409]

Steve, My converter is about a 3500 stall and I can get about 3000 on the footbrake for launch.
I`ve been trying to stage around 2000-2500 and then hammer it.

With your flash of 5500 what would be your highest footbrake stall before the engine would over come the brakes?

Will a converter flash higher then the stall ?
Example : My car will start moving with the footbrake at about 3-3200 but will jump up to 3500 or a bit higher from an idle with a quick rap of the peddle just messing around idleing around a parking lot.

I guess what I`m asking is ,,,, is the flash stall higher then the stall and if so how much higher?

I don`t have a tach with a playback so it tough to watch the lights and tach to see where it flashes.
Thanks,, dq

[Steve "wully bully"]

DQ,
I will do my best to answer your questions, I am not very knowledgeable about auto's and converters, just know our experience. Our converter is a Coan, specifically calibrated for our application. We called them, explained everything about the car, and they built it to their recommondation. It has no "Advertised" stall speed, they just told us figure around 5500. When I would footbrake it, the nose of the car would begin to lift between 2600-2800, so I would hold it there. It would leave great as long as the rpm's stayed above 2500 when staged, below that it bogged, big time. I don't have any idea how high I could have pushed it, we always wanted the front low, so on launch it would have maximum movement for weight transfer. Upon launch, it would immediately climb to 5500, and the car would pull from there. When I transbraked it, it would again pull from the 5500 point, although we set the rev limit at 5400, to hold it on the brake. My prior experience, I had a street car with a 3500 advertised converter, behind a 350. It was in a 3600 lb s-10. If I rev'ed it, it would push the brakes by about 2600, but if I played aroud, as you state, I could get it to rise to about 3800. I had no recording tach in it either, so I could only mentally record it, but I did it only on the street. Hope some of this helps.
Steven

[fatride]

Jim, converters will flash at a higher rpm than break torqueing!

[Fran Preve]

The first thing I would do is take off the tri-power anad put on a single 4 barrel, about 625 cfm, Carter preferably. Why?. Beacuse your chasing your tail with the tri-power, what you've done has helped, or has it hurt?. Once you've dialed it in with the quad THEN go back to the tri-power and see what happens.

Let's look at this car, 3800 lbs, 300hp or close too it, leaves on 4.11's (3.73+.28), hooks (or so he says), flash torque stall 2500 plus. This car should short at about 2.00-2.10, and that's about it. Converter?. Stall speed is where the converter locks up (unless it's a lockup style). That means it slips until then. So a 2500 converter locks up at 2500, a 3500 at 3500, and so on. Stall is "slips until" speed. And a 3500 converter may not hold a car on the line until 3500 so you go as high as you can or lower and let it "flash".

Tri-power is cool, but not easy to set up, do your self a favor, ditch the trips until the car is dialed in, THEN put them back on. The only reason you can go to 4.11's safely is you have a .70 OD which will drop you final gear. But then your going to be slipping the transmission until the engine RPM hits it's stall RPM, unless you go to a lock up style. 3.73's in OD means you have to be going 65+ mph before it locks up.

3500lbs, 1500 leave, 1900 lock up, 3.42 gears, 700r4 ='s 1.76/.77 in my TPI Corvette.
3450lbs, 2200 leave, 3500 lock up, 4.10 gears, T400 ='s 1.65/66 in my wifes 454 Monte Carlo.

I'll watch some street cars Tuesday and see what a typical 60' is.

[tripowerguy]

The only 4 barrell that I have is a old Rochester 4 Jet and a cast iron manifold. I think that my problem is the cam and converter combo. I think that the tires are OK because I have no feeling of slippage. I can't get a bigger tire in the wheel well. My old 58 315hp made 255 HP on a chassis dyno, it turned 13.90 et and 101 to 102 mph. It was in a Biscayne which is lighter but the big factor is it was a stick shift. I know that Aubrey is smiling right now but you can't beat a stick shift for using all available hp. I also ran 4:56's and drove over in the right lane with all the old ladies on the street. The car I have now is a compromise for comfort and convenience. I like the overdrive automatic because even with 3:73's it runs at 2000 rpm at 65 so going lower gears would be acceptable for street use. I just feel it could come out harder and the only way is lower gears. The converter is a B & M 2000 stall lock-up and I guess I need to experiment with launch technique. But I think going lower in gears can only help not hender. :) Roy

[Fran Preve]

I gotta say it, if you can put a 4 brrl on it and tune it with that. I like the 2000 stall, and the 3.70 with a 2.75 low plus OD. I don't think the problem is in the drivetrain. And I think your right to try and keep the rpm down on the highway. Your not racing it everyday, you are DRIVING it. Keep that in mind.

[dq409]

Roy, I gotta agree with Fran on this.
If you want to keep your car a good street driver I would forget about the 60 foot times.
I order to get the most out of your 60 foot times you will be taking away a lot of the streetability as in too low of rear end gears and too high of stall.

You will have to have a very high stall, around 3500-4000 and deep gears to gain the kind of 60 foot times you want.
I am down to 4.56 and up to almost 4000 stall to get a decient 1.800 60 foot.

Although I`m still working on launch and better 60 foot times I`ve taken away a great deal of streetabiliy due to the low gears and high stall.

The best way to get both, streetability and 60 foot times, is to revert to a manual trans , but again you will also need steep gears.

I think you need to decide which style of car you want,,,,,
Race or street !

It is difficult to have both.

To gain in one area you give in another,,,,,dq

[tripowerguy]

I'm sorry it takes so long for me to get back to the forum but the computor is at my daughters and only get to her house once or twice a week, I am going to get a laptop so I can have it with me on the road. I do not want a race car, just a fast street car that I race once in a while. I am going to go with the 4:11's as it won't hurt the driveability with the overdrive transmission. Anyway thanks for all the comments and help from everyone. :clap Roy

[CDNpontiac409guy]

I am going to go with the 4:11's as it won't hurt the driveability with the overdrive transmission. Roy

:deal :cheers ;) !

I'm gazing into my crystal ball.......
YES !
I see it.......
It appears that there will now be a.......




















TRACTION PROBLEM :clap

MUCH easier to deal with ( and MUCH more impressive ) than sluggish torque multiplication :brow

[dq409]

OK tripower, Then install them 4.11`s and hard line the carbs so they are all working together and you should notice a big difference!

I made my hard lines (linkage) with a piece of alum rod and threaded the ends.

One cool trick I learned is to heat up your converter just pryer to racing.
I hold the rpm just below where it wants to pull and hold it there for a while,,, then I do it again about half way up the staging lanes.

Dead cold my stall is around 2800-3000 before it pulls through the brakes.
After the first heatup it will go up to about 3200 on the first round launch.
Every pass after that it is around 3700-3800 rpm and stays there the rest of the night/day without reheating . ,,,,dq

[JimKwiatkowski]

dq,2,001 post's WOW GOOD JOB :cheers :cheers :clap :clap

I seen you at 1,999 the other day and I wanted to congratulate at 2,000 but I missed it.

[dq409]

Thanks,,, but who`s counting :D