1962 Bubbletop prices...and observations.

[merc50]

Ya know, I really can not figure out the deal with these cars...and the prices seem to be all over the place on them and they seem to never jive with each other.

Here is what I mean...I have been kicking around selling my 62 bubbletop I got from Duffys a year and a half (almost two years ago maybe) ago. The car in my opinion is a really nice car. It was 6 banger car but I got it from Duffy's as a 409 clone. This car from what I can tell has everything on it numbers accurate for 62 including the block. It is the single 4 set up and I think this car is really nice compaired to most of the 62's I have seen. Great trim...new seats but great original door panels blah blah.

It is a clone, and the real ones in the shape mine is in have been in the 50's....I was asking 30 for mine. I never got any interest...so I just kind of dropped the idea for now.

Now, am I crazy wanting 30 for a really good clone? I know many of you would say "I have to see the car," and I understand that...but what I don't get is I have now seen bubbletops with 350's and auto trannies go for more than my car, and 409 transplants that are not really "clones" go for less. I have seen cars on Ebay that looked really good not sell, and cars that were so so go for more than I expected. They seem to be all over the place on price without a trend that I can see...am I missing something? What is going on with 62 bubbletops and all 409's price wise? Are they going up, going down, or bouncing all over the place? The market for these cars is nothing like the vett and 'stang market...I have buddies that are die hards for those cars and before you even really give it a thought you can look at a vett or stang and pretty much tell what it should and would sell for.

I can not say I have seen that with 62's or 409's in general.

Is the niche for these cars that narrow? I go to a cruise night and guys run over and tell me I have a halo car like a "hemi" or a Shelby...and clones do not seem to matter at all these days. Clone hemi cars and clone Shelbys do not bring as much as real ones...but they bring really good money.

I just thought as long as I looked for one and from how people react to it that I had a really nice car that had a following (I did not buy it for this...I have wanted one for years but now that I have it I have too many cars and not enuff money...I bet many of you relate to that). And people kept telling me all the time that they wish they could find one just like mine...assuming my car is nice...I wonder why I could not sell it? Where did all these guys that said they wanted one go to?

I really find the 409 market strange...it seems like lots of people know what they are but know nothing about them.

Other odd W block stuff shocks me from time to time also.

I am no expert...but I almost got yelled at by a guy with a 61 bubbletop that had a W motor in it and 409 badges. It had from what I could tell a 348 in it (dipstick, that kind of thing) and I just mentioned it to a buddy of mine that it was a 348. It could be that since I am in my mid 30's and the guy that owned it was older and he does not like young punks or something but he started talking about how I had no idea what I was talking about. This car had tri power, the stick was on the wrong side, etc. etc., I am pretty dang sure it was a 348 but I was not looking for a fight and blew it off. Strange thing is I heard this guy sold this fake 61 SS with 409 badges that had a 348 in it for more money than I was asking for my car. My car was IMHO in far better shape...the trim on this 61 was really bad and crushed in spots.

More power to this guy for getting his money...no sour grapes intended...but is the market for clone 61 SS's really hot? I have no real idea. I can not see how this car sold for the boat load of money it did.

I come from a hot rod background...not a restoration or chevy only thing...and many of those guys I have run into have been kinda strange...telling me I have a 45,000 dollar car and how they would take no less than 70 for their 62 409 Impalla SS...I keep seeing and hearing about cars that don't sell that shock me and cars that do sell that also shock me.

So the point to my ramblings...it is lost on me also. I guess what I am asking is where do these cars rank in the over all picture? Are these cars appealing to alot of people or to just a few? Are they as name recognized as the hemi cars because of the song and such? Are these cars staying where they are, or are they going to be the next hot craze?

I have never owned a car that got so lost in the crowd most of the time and then out of the blue some group or one guy will come up and talk and talk about my car. The guys on here have a passion for these cars...I always thought the 62 bubbletop was one of the greatest looking chevy cars ever, but I have noticed the beyond that guys who know them and love them they don't seem to have the broad appeal of something like the Mustang or as much name recognition with the 409 as a hemi car would(every goof knows the word hemi, even before the newer ads on tv).

I think the term 409 rings in peoples heads, but unlike hemi it dose not seem to bring out the same kind of response for a lot of people.

What is everyone impression of the market...not the speculator gonna take it to the auction nonsense...but what is the real market like?

Are these cars that have a broad following or a small one? As time goes on is the 409 going to fade more and more from peoples minds?

Better question, have I made any sense and anyone got an opinion on these comments?

BTW, I still am sitting on the fence about selling mine...

[jester]

Now , having said all that, the fact remains, these cars have no value at all. They do not have a book value . The govenor of the price people pay for these vehicles is, what it is worth to them at the time they are looking to buy. If they want it bad enough, they will pay whatever you ask. The same goes for the 09 parts. They are not as rare as people what you to believe. What drives the price is the fact that people think that " I better buy it now and put it on the shelf just in case" Panic buying.
Good luck to you in your quest to unravel the puzzle.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it !

[Tom Kochtanek]

One fact that offers value to some is the "rarity" of a certain vehicle and the degree to which it remains close to original. 1962 BelAir Sport Coupes ("Bubbletops") were limited in their production (less than 10,000 or so -- see the recent discussion of numbers of 62s with V8s, sixes, and of Canadian origin), and were sort of "cult" oriented in that they were supposed "preferred" by hot rodders when they were fairly new. They were a bit less costly than the Impala, carried a bit less weight, and allowed the new owner to check off performance items rather than spend money on "ornamentals". Hence the following. And, as you mentioned, the '62 Bubbletop just flat out looked great.

It does seem that even a rusty old '62 Bubbletop remnant still commands in excess of $2500 (there's one on Ebay right now in the low $3K mark with lots of time left). Properly restored ones, or better yet, unmolested oiginal examples, bring high dollars only to those whose pockets can afford the high prices. But just because an apparently nicely restored '62 BA with a 409 four speed goes on Ebay for $3x,xxx doesn't mean that all Bubletops are priceless. The difference between a "really nice driver" and a perfectly restored vehicle can be the result of hundreds, even thousands, of hours of labor and tens of thousands of dollars.

And from 10 feet both cars looks similar, especially in a photo. What you don't see if the hundreds of hours put into the trim polishing, the engine detailing, the undercarriage, and so forth. That's what differentiates them to the inquiring buyer.

I agree that it's hard to put a stable figure on vaue for these cars. Since the market has taken its tumble over the past few years, some have turned to automobiles as investments, and this has driven the cost of some collectible cars up for the time being. Mid year Corvettes with big blocks ( 1965-6-7) or the last year of the Rochester fuel injection (1965) are examples of cars that have appreciated quite drastically since the 1970s. I think 409s and the earlier 348 cars are near that category of "collectible" for many of us. Unlike the Corvettes and the limited production Shelbys and Cobras, these cars can be bought by the likes of you and I, and we can work on them in our own garages. Maybe that's what so much fun about these vehicles, their simplicity and muscular origins?

Regardless, so long as there are willing and some times speculative buyers out there with cash, odd things will happen and then get amplfied ("Did you hear so and so got such and such for his SuperBird?") and then we all expect our less-than-perfect rides to appreciate in a similar fashion. I think one of the real reasons the guys on this Forum like these cars is that they like to drive them. Put a black primer job on it, patch that spot quickly, who cars so long as we can fire them up and take 'em for a spin.

Maybe I will get to the point with mine that I can take that spin :)

Cheers,
TomK

[dq409]

Good answer Tom !

The idiots with the deep pockets are the ones that drive the high price collector car market.
Just watch an hour or so of the Barret Jackson Auction and you see what I mean.
The price they pay for some cars is plain STUPID !!!

When it comes to getting the price you want from your car Tom has made the point of how much time is spent in the right areas.
But also there are the guys for some unknown reason that are the lucky ones and can sell a garbage can for twice what its worth for no logical reason !

The Covettes, Shelbys, and other cars like them are for the followers not the leaders,,,,, I own a CORVETTE,,,, I own a SHELBY,,,,, I own a CUSTOM BUILT HOTROD,,, never owned or turned a wrench type buyers. BUT deep pockets !!

I think the Shelby owners are the worst !! They must starch their BVD`s to walk that way !! I walk right past their cars,,,,,,,,

I also think Tom nailed it whet he said about the 348-409 owners "these cars can be bought by the likes of you and I, and we can work on them in our own garages. Maybe that's what so much fun about these vehicles, their simplicity and muscular origins?"

And most of us DRIVE them ,,,and GOD forgive us ,,,RACE them !!!!

I just love the guys that say to me at the race track,,,,, "If that was my car it would be home in the garage" !! My answer,,,, I`m glad it`s not,,,
Or "Man ,, Why would you race that car with that engine" and I even had one guy say,,, "I just got mine finished and I`d be scared to death to race it"
My answer,,,, This is what they were designed and built for in the first place !!!

A little off subject but, my point is you need to find the right guy at the right time to get your price.

One thing to do is take it to a well known major collector car auction in your area.
Go early or stay late and ask the auctioneer to give a value to your car.
Tell them you are interested in running it through their auction and want their opinion on what it might go for.
They will know what it will bring in based on your area and the cars shape.
Also ask them what you can do to improve the cars value without doing anything other then detailing or minor adjustments to it.

It would be best to find an auction that does the whole country or more then just local so they can also tell you what it would be worth in the hotter car markets.
Sometimes you can sell the car for so much more at one of the big national auctions that it will pay your way there and have extra money in your pocket when you get home.
Free vacation.

OK time to get to work,,,,,, dq

BTW,,, Ther are some Corvette, Shelby, and other car owners that DO own there cars for the right reasons,,,, but are out numbered

[impalaragpat]

I know what you mean about the Shelby owners. I have a 67 Shelby Gt350. It is unrestored and driven hard often. At shows Im always asked why I havent restored it yet. I tell them that I drive the car and still like sliding around corners and doing burnouts. I show them the rubber on the rear quarters. I dont clean the car for every show, just when I have time. The purists have a fit cause they cant believe somebody would actually DRIVE a Shelby. All cars were made to run and should be, unless they truely belong in a museum.
Beaters are fun cause you dont have to worry about it getting scratched or rained on.
As for the 62 BBtops I think they should bring more than Impalas because they are a much rarer body style, and also better looking. Any show or cruise will have its share of Impalas , but no or maybe one 62 BBtop.
Could have bought Reggie Jackson 's black 62 BA 409 425 4speed car for $27k about 8 years ago. Price seemed high then but looks like a bargain now.
Pat

[dadz409]

Merc50,
As for the question of what it's worth, my opinion is that$30k is high. Here is that way I value a clone car. I calculate the cost of the engine and then add it to the approx value of the body. I value a freshly rebuilt 409 with all the correct period parts at $10k, this is using all premium parts and all correct add on parts ie.
air cleaner, exhaust, starter, alternator, carb etc. I may get flamed a bit here, but check the price of machine work and the cost of say a rebuilt correct carb and air cleaner.
Now if your Belair is a nice rust free, never been rusted, all parts there variety, then this example would get my attention to the tune of $10k. If the body has documented low miles, documentation, nice accessories, $5k paintjob, then I would push this up a $1000 at a time for these. You are not likely going to recover the $1000+ for the tires and wheels, if you added these, but the correct wheels and tires will always help the car sell.
So at this point, we are adding the engine and body value, and have a $20k to $30k range. Right now, after attending Barrett-Jackson in January, I believe the buying public is spending it's money on good reliable, attractive, low mileage drivers, not trailer queens. Over restored cars were not bringing what the owners had in them, and nice drivers were bringing more than expected.
You have a rare body style, a desirable engine, with proper exposure you shouldn't have any trouble getting a fair price. Good Luck, Gary

[dq409]

Pat, It`s the AC, and 427 Shelby owners that I find uninteresting (nicely put).

I learned to drive in my friends uncles GT 500 KR !!
Bought it new in `68 while on leave from Nam. Blk on blk !!!

You should see this GT 500 here in Portland.
Extremly nice full modified prostreet blown 427 with the hemi heads !!
Had a long talk with the owner last weekend and you should hear what he has to say about the other Shelby owners !!!
He even had a talk person to person with Carrol about why they won`t let him put it in the shelby registry.
Carrol din`t want it there either but did sign his dash !!
I`ll get a picture of it next time and post it.
ONE BAD **** GT !!!!!! ,,dq

[dadz409]

Another thought, after owning a dozen or so collector cars I finally went back to my roots and bought a driver 409. I haven't had more fun in 40 years. For Fathers Day this year I asked for only one thing from my 20 year old daughter, that she ride in my 409 just once. She has always refused to, holding it against me for getting rid of the Corvette's a few years ago. Well, after a 20 minute ride that Sunday, she came back with a smile from ear to ear and hasn't quit talking about the car.
Merc50, your biggest buying audience will be the crowd who grew up the 60's, so advertise accordingly. A young friend of my son's came over and looked at my car last weekend; he told me he had often wondered why they don't use chrome on bumpers any more. He claimed they must have used it all up on 60's Chevrolets.

[Fran Preve]

Basically everything DQ said. Bubbletops are rare because of number produced, they have "cache", the term "bubbletop" is known by most all collectors. Virtually NONE can be documented as "true, original" factory 409's, so 90% of what you see are "clones". It's value is in that it's well known that bubbletops are rare, no matter the motor. Bought a very nice one in FLA for $1500 in 1985, sold it in 1992 for $3500. Wish I had it back?, you bet!.