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tmracing62
07-26-2004, 02:24 AM
I have mixed feelings about the way the legal system actually works and consider it a last resort. However a person that bought a car from me two years ago convinced me to let him have it before he'd paid in full and I did other things to make it as easy as possible for him. When I discovered he had been lying about his ability to pay (he has more than enough money) and that he had told someone he did not intend to, I had him served. Now to me, that's just business when the other party has failed to fulfill without cause. It is not punitive or arrogant and like I said, a last resort to put someone on notice. He has gone ballistic and it is very ugly. It is consuming an incredible amount of time that I don't have, but I tend to be prepared and on judgment day, he's getting a faceful he never expected.

Learn from my mistakes. If you are selling something valuable - meaning you don't intend or can't afford to forfeit it - then use a formal and legally binding agreement. A friendly little bill of sale is meaningless. No matter how good a friend they may be, no matter how heartwrenching their tale or how wonderful you think they are, get into a legally binding agreement. This is not as unfriendly as you might think. For instance, they get run over and if you don't have the paperwork, you may not be considered in the estate settlement. Their wife freaks and tells him not to pay you, putting him in the middle. The list is long, but you get the point. You can get forms at an office supply store and can cross out or add whatever you need. You don't necessarily need an attorney.

For the same reasons, don't let it go without getting paid unless you have specified a payment schedule. You can always amend it if circumstances change. Both sign for every payment and document any changes to any part of the agreement.

These things protect both of you and if they think you are being unfriendly, explain and if they are upset maybe they are not the best person to sell to.

Having been an expert witness many times and involved in criminal and civil trials as a witness and as a court observer, it is an appalling, disgusting stage play. The very last thing that happens in court is justice. The last thing you will hear is truth. Or at least the complete truth. Usually everybody knows the truth and the spirit and intentions of the parties. But the game is to play with the words to see who can get away with what. Never expect things to be as you think they will be. The time taken to start out with the proper documentation will really pay off, mostly by avoiding a legal battle altogether or at least minimizing interpretations and doubt.

Something to think about anyway.

Fran Preve
07-26-2004, 12:57 PM
I hate to be the one to say it TM but dumb move on your part to begin with, now you pay the price. Nice guys finish last, or so they say. Your missive should serve as a reminder, cash first REPEAT CASH! (or certified funds). I wouldn't sell a car to my brother (if I had a brother) without money up front. If he didn't understand he wouldn't be much of a brother. (substitute friend). I'm sorry for your problem, and hope it works out.

PS: if it didn't the car would be smoldering, if you get my drift.

bobs409
07-26-2004, 01:05 PM
Most of us encounter this sooner or later. To trust or not to trust?

I found that sometimes, complete strangers are more honest than friends. I've been taken a few times here and there but that gets old quick, then you do what Fran says, CASH ONLY! :D

A "friend" of mine still owes me $20.00 on a truck push bar I sold him. That was about 5-7 years ago! I know it's only $20 but it's more prinipal than amount.


Live and learn. ;)

Tom Kochtanek
07-27-2004, 03:18 PM
Michael, I know how you feel about that transaction! What starts off as a cordial friendly exchange/transaction between two agreeing parties can often change over a short period of time. I always used to be able to trust a man's handshake on a deal, but things are different these days.

Wish things were simple like they were in the Summer of 1962 (substitute your favorite year) :)

Cheers,
TomK

unworthy
07-28-2004, 07:16 PM
As a seller, you hate to make someone engage in a contract. It simply says "I don't trust you" and I like to think of myself as a, my word is my word, kind of guy.
But as a buyer I have NEVER been offended by a seller wanting me to engage in a contract, it's simply business. Knowing full well my word is my word, why would I have a problem signing a contract saying my word is my word. Anytime you have a buyer not willing to sign a contract, you've simply weeded out the guy who had no intentions of paying, and saved yourself tons-o-grief.
like they say, nothin' personal, B'dness is B'dness.

tmracing62
07-28-2004, 09:59 PM
Well said unworthy. Thanks.

- Michael

unworthy
07-28-2004, 10:25 PM
Michael,
sorry to hear that happened to you.

I saw another thread where you were explaining rear wings to someone, your example photo was a '63 vette. Just wondering, was it yours ?

Heath.

tmracing62
07-30-2004, 02:43 AM
Heath -

Yes. That's the car the guy won't finish paying for. It was a great car and very good people worked on it. I just lost interest and time and money and maybe some guts. It stopped being worth it all around. But it sure was a fun ride. I have WAY more fun in my 409 because I get to drive it around. Haven't raced it yet although built to do that. Again no time mostly.

- Michael

unworthy
07-30-2004, 10:32 AM
WOW !!!! what kind of times were you running with it. Looks like a beautiful car.

59fins
07-30-2004, 11:57 AM
PS: if it didn't the car would be smoldering, if you get my drift.

Man oh man, Then he makes out on the insurance and we all pay for it.... and the loss of of another classic, I'd re-think the revenge angle there :takethat