348 409 differences

[Tic's60]

Iif you put a 409 crank and rods in a .030 over 348 block which gives you 379ci will the 348 pistons 409 rods work?

How about a 409 manifold on a 348 with (379 type) heads

Just a configuration thought<G>

[Tic's60]

Ok I found this old post
Yup you know who you are :-)
Steve.... I did it once using the 348 pistons with 409 rods. Had to grind metal off the bottom of the piston. Ran this engine in my 61 Biscayne after I took it off the strip. I put about 10,000 miles on it, then it went with the car... last I heard, the engine is still working fine.
I did it 'cause I had no money ... There is a far better way...
Ross will make 348 pistons for you that have the pin height adjusted for the 3.5" stroke and 6.135" BBC rod. I have my own dome design that they are making for me now... maybe you could try them

So this answeres my question BUT how much and how did you cut down the piston?

Though I am looking into cost of the pistons 427 crank I thought hmm what would you do if it was pre 65? No monies, but wanted to pump up your 348/409 how would you/ Mind you PRE 65 NO 396 YET so no interchanging or even thinking in terms of 3.76 - 4.00 stroke motors.. I'll post the challenge later.

thanks

[JimKwiatkowski]

Mike,I got your PM today and e-mailed a club member that builds 409'S and stroker motors.I asked him what size you should machine big block crank at?

Mike send me your e-mail at (JIMKWI@msn.com)

[indyjps]

i see references to modifying 427 cranks for 409 use, what mods are needed. thanks

[Loafer409]

i see references to modifying 427 cranks for 409 use, what mods are needed. thanks

==

Do a search on stroker or stroker motor or stroker crank. You'll find lots of threads with lots of infomation and exactly what your looking for, you'll have to do a lot of reading, but its all great info... :)

[JimKwiatkowski]

indyjps,Welcome aboard to make a 427 crank to fit a 409 you have to machine the 427 crank in 5 areas.The conter weights have to be machined to the 409 diameter also the mains,rods,front snout and rear flange then balance the crank.approx cost $800 :eek:

[348NUT]

The other day I stuck a 409 crank in my 348 with the stock 348 rod and cast piston. They hit the counter weights by about an 1/8th inch I'd guess. So with 409 rods you'd have to grind or machine off about 1/4" or so to make them clear. Then of course you'd need to rebalance everything. NUT

[JimKwiatkowski]

Show Cars sells stroker cranks

6097 New Big Block 409 4" Stroker crank forged 5140 alloy steel cross drilled unbalanced Ea. $850.00
6088 New Big Block 409 4" Stroker crank forged 5140 alloy steel cross drilled balanced Ea $1109.00
6098 Reconditioned Big Block 4" Stroker crank forged alloy steel unbalanced Ea $399.00 Core required
6099 Reconditioned Big Block 4" Stroker crank forged alloy steel balanced Ea $659.00 Core required

6529 409 Callies Dragon Slayor 4" stroker crank, 4340 forged steel. Ea $1295.00
6530 409 Callies Dragon Slayor 4.25" stroker cran, 4340 forged steel. Ea $1295.00

Note: Reconditioned stock 348/409 cranks, 10/10, 20/20, 30/30, 40/40. Call for price and availability.

[dq409]

Jim, Do you work for Show Cars?

Seems like when ever someone asks about parts you direct them to SC.

Just wondering as we have other more favorable venders like Phil Reed and others. ,,,dq

[JimKwiatkowski]

dq,I'm Sorry I know I should help support our club members :doh I didn't think about it untill you brought it up ;)

[bobs409]

Show cars did help to support this site with a donation too so lets all help each other out. We're all in this crazy hobby together ya know. ;)

[Loafer409]

Show Cars !! String'im up... :hug

[dq409]

Sorry Jim,,, Just had to bring that up !!! heee heee

I have a SC catalog too ! But I just use it as reference for the parts and prices that are out there and available from others.

And loafer,,,,,,, heeeeehaaaaahoooooo :D ,,,dq

[threeimpalas]

indyjps,Welcome aboard to make a 427 crank to fit a 409 you have to machine the 427 crank in 5 areas.The conter weights have to be machined to the 409 diameter also the mains,rods,front snout and rear flange then balance the crank.approx cost $800 :eek:

The rod journals are the same diameter on the 348/409 cranks as they are on the BBC cranks. That's why we can easily use the BBC connecting rods on our stock cranked engines with the appropriate pistons.

[JimKwiatkowski]

Mike,your right about the rod journals but you still need the counter weights,mains,front snout and rear flange to be machined to make a 427 crank to fit in the 409.Still alot of work

[Tic's60]

I would not say easily. I got 4 quotes from different shops capable of machining the BBC crank to 409 spec's and none came in under 800.00. Plus you need special off set pistons 695.00 for the set. So your at almost 1500.00 on crank and pistons alone. Next you'll need a good block, 2-3k, set of good heads 1500-3k, cam and timing 500.00, misc rings, bearings 1k, a good ignition and carb manifold setup another 1500.00 and whola $8995.00 ya got a high end 409 that makes around 450-500hp. So if you wanted to break that down to hp per dollar using 475HP and 8k it's $16.42 per hp. The W block per hp will cost you dearly. As an example of the difference I'll use my last BBC. Total build cost with everything 4K. Dyno read 553HP. Cost per HP $7.23.
Dont get me wrong I really dig the 409/348's and hope to finish one soon but if you gonna move old metal as quick as possible on a budget then it's not the right motor. Some have been lucky and found and have ton's of 409 perf parts but for those starting now the market is rough!

[fourspeed409]

When I got quotes on doing a stroker crank I didn't think the price was that bad. The shop I called wanted $250-300 to grind the mains to fit the 409 block and grind the rod journals as needed. Balancing they figured arround $275. The only thing not included was machining the counterwieghts, I was going to get a different shop to do that before it went for grinding and balancing.
To do the 409 crank it will be $110 to grind and $275 to balance. So the only difference in price was $140-190 for the mains and the cost to turn the counterwieghts. My local machine shop only charges me $35/hour for lathe work so I can't see it costing that much. (those are Canadian prices)
409s aren't cheap to build but most parts that are available are of good quality. Ross pistons for a 409 are the same price as a Ross 350 sbc pistons.
I guess the point I am trying to make is, building an engine with good components plain and simple isn't cheap. Be it a 409 or 454 good pistons, rods, roller cams, race valves, all that stuff isn't that much difference in price between the 2.

[Tom Kochtanek]

Shane, you might think about making that spreadsheet of parts, part #s and machine shop costs "more public". I think it would help a lot of us who are new to this, and who are trying to understand how to go about doing a stroker motor, or for that matter, any 409 build. I know I have kept all receipts and have used your SS to make it represent my build. I need to update things, and costs vary depending on location and availability of talent/machine shop work.

What do you think? Publish that info?

Just for comparison's sake, I started with a $5 427 crank, added $750 worth of crank machining, used CPG's piston design, new Eagle BBC rods, and then spent $1100 on totalling redoing a set of 583 heads that I got for $500. Block was a common truck block costing around $2-300, bored .100". It all adds up quickly. I try not to keep count :)

Best,
TomK

[fourspeed409]

I will gladly post my build cost spread sheet but there are some errors to fix on it before I post it. CPG was nice enough to look at it for me and pointed out some odd components I had on it.
I will post it on the weekend as I am in the process of sandblasting the underside of my 62 body this week.
Shane