oiling problem

[astumbo2002]

Help Does anyone know why I would have no oil at the rocker arms on the drivers side of a newly rebuilt 409. Have 45 lbs oil pressure and good oiling at the rockers on the passanger side. The distributor appears to have the oiling groove opened up.

Danny

[JimKwiatkowski]

Danny,sounds like your distributor groove is not lined up properly.Your oil groove on your dist probably is only half way around the dist and the groove is not lined on the right side oil hole.

[oil4kids]

did you change the rear cam bearing? did your camshaft have a grooved rear journal?

[astumbo2002]

The engine has new cam bearings new grooved cam, the dist. shaft has a groove completely around it. I think the dist is installed correctly because it runs well.

[JimKwiatkowski]

What brand of distributor are you using?The groove is in the dist body its 4 1/2 inchs from the center of the groove to the to the bottom of the surface that rests against the intake.the engine will run good with a oil hole blocked.I would still pull your dist and check it out again

[astumbo2002]

I am using a stock gm dist# 1110948 that has been converted to electronic.

[astumbo2002]

I will pull the dist out again tomorrow and check it. The vacum advance is pointing toward the passanger side with the oil tube approx over the dist hold down bolt. Does this sound right?

Danny

[JimKwiatkowski]

Your distributor is from a 1959-60 348 305-315 hp I don't think that has anything to do your problem.I would still pull your dist and double check your work, maybe someone on this site has other things to check :dunno

[Phil Reed]

Make sure there haven't been any modifications to the outer part of the distributor housing. There probably hasn't been.

I'm afraid that your rear cam bearing is in wrong. There are 3 holes that must line up properly. You can get 2 to line up but the 3rd is not in the right position. And that will let one side oil while the other bank of rockers is dry. Aubrey and Denny Ford can give more insight on this but I think that is the cause of your oiling problem.

And there isn't an easy fix either!!

[JimKwiatkowski]

Danny,I looked at some photos you posted in 7-24-03 of you dist is this the same dist?If they are it looks like your oil passage is blocked on the drivers side :dunno

[jim_ss409]

Here's a link to the distributor photo. http://www.348-409.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=269 The groove that Jim is refering to is the one that is about an inch above the drive gear. You'll notice that it only goes part way around so IF your distributor is turned the wrong way it can block the oil passage. But I think from your description you've got it pointing the right way. By the way the engine will run just as well with the dist. pointing in any direction. All that maters is that the rotor is pointing at the wire that needs to be fired, when it needs to be fired. There's no harm in grinding that groove the rest of the way around just to eliminate the distributor from the list of suspects. Show Cars sells an hand drill driven oiling tool that goes in like a distributor that would alow you to investigate the problem without running the engine. http://www.show-cars.com/intengine.htm I'll bet Phil's right about that cam bearing. Let's hope it's just a distributor problem. Good luck.

[CDNpontiac409guy]

Yes, Phil has a point with that rear cam bearing. There are three oil holes in it, and they only line up one way ! Off hand though, I don't think it would effect lifter gallery oiling. I'll look at a block in the morning.

[astumbo2002]

Jim the dist. that you are refering to is the origional dual point for the car. I did not want to convert it to electronic so I used another dist.

Danny

[oil4kids]

the reason i asked if you changed the rear cam bearing is the reason that Phil suggested they can be installed wrong which will cut off oil supply to the lifters so heres what you do,

pull the distributer, get a 2 ft piece of 3/8 steel brake line tubing flatten one end of the tubing in a vice, flatten it as much as possible, place a 1/2 or 9/16 (I forgot) 3/8 drive socket over the tubing this tool will be used to spin the oil pump when connected to drill, the tubing is thin enough to see into the distributer hole with a bright flashlight, place the tubing/socket into the motor and aligh the oil pump shaft turn the drill on and look if oil is flowing around the top where the distributer would sit, if no oil.....pull the motor and replace the rear cam bearing

the only other possibility is someone left a oil galley plug off the front or back of the block and oil pressure is bleeding off

i use this tool cheap tool to check all motors

[astumbo2002]

Ok i'll pull the dist and try the tubing trick.

Thanks
Danny

[astumbo2002]

I tried the steel tubing, drill and it has plenty of oil coming out the rear hole. I forgot to mention that this is a solid lifter motor. Don't know if that would slow the oil down or not. I did notice on some of the parts like the crank, intake and cam that they were stamped prototype. I did not use the old cam, but I used the other parts. Don't think that was a problem.

Danny

[astumbo2002]

I made a oil priming tool out of a old dist. and stuck it in the motor and used a drill to turn it. Guess what No oiling at the rocker arms on the left side, plenty at the rockers on the right. Now what?

Danny

[mercsrus51]

I had this same problem wioth my new mallory....but on the pass side....car ran fine,, but distr was in backwards...180 degrees off,,,,, Ithas to be the distr...i worked all %$#$$^%@ nite and Kurt from Mr 409 finally gave me the right info......Also a friend in RI Packy was a very good friend through all of it....LOU

[JimKwiatkowski]

I checked my 09 block and the rear cam bearing has 3 holes.The hole at 6 o'clock (bottom) go's to the rear main. The hole at 2 o'clock go's to the oil passage for lifters on the passenger side and this hole go's to the rear of dist ( this is the hole you were looking at during your test) the hole in front of the dist go's to the oil passage on the passenger lifters,these holes are joined togeather by the dist groove.Are confused yet :? The hole at 10 o'clock go's to the oil passage for the drivers side lifters and thats all.the other end this passage comes to the front engine behind the timming gear and is plugged by a soft plug.I would ck this plug first to see if theres one.I think you said you have 45 lbs oil pressure? My new oil pump is putting out 75 lbs (cold) your lower oil pressure might be because of a missing plug.Just an idea :dunno

Think about this if one hole on the cam bearing is missaligned wouldn't all 3 holes be missaligned :? :dunno

[JimKwiatkowski]

I just read Phil Reed's post and he said you could align 2 holes.There go's my idea but since the timing cover has to come off you could check the plug first.

[astumbo2002]

I pulled the intake off the engine, pulled the lifters and pushrods out of the # 7 cylinder, primed the engine with a primer, no oil to the lifter galley holes on the drivers side. I blew air through the rear lifter hole and could not find out where the air came out. I blew air through the lifter hole to the front and the galley is not stopped up. If I understand what was said in the last post the drivers side oil galley is fed fron the rear cam bearing hole at the 10 oclock position. If I have the wrong cam bearing or the bearing is in the wrong place I might not have oil on the left side or drivers side oil galley. I did not install the cam bearings so I can only tear down the engine to see. Do you think that may be the problem, I am stumped.

Danny

[JimKwiatkowski]

Danny,I'm 90% sure this is your problem I've looked at my block several times and the hole at 10 o'clock is the only way oil can get to your lifters.Also check the soft plug behind your timing gear and make sure there's a plug.

I think you can replace the rear cam bearing with the engine in the car.Pull your timing cover off and pull cam out about 6 inchs.Drop your trans and flywheel remove the big soft plug in back of your engine and check your cam bearing.

[astumbo2002]

Thanks

I will try that tomorrow.

Danny

[astumbo2002]

Jim you and Phil were both right. The cam bearing was installed incorrectly. The machine shop missed the hole to the left side lifter galley when they installed the bearing. They were real sorry that happened. Me too. I guess I will have to find another machine shop. Thanks to all you guys for the help. hopefully in a few days I will post some pictures of this old beater. 1962 Belair 2 dr post 4 speed bench seat origional paint and interior.

Thanks again

Danny

[JimKwiatkowski]

Danny,glad to help,did you do the cam bearing with the engine in the car if so how did it work out?We like photos of members cars so please post some

[astumbo2002]

No I pulled the engine out and took it apart on the engine stand.

[astumbo2002]

I have to wait a couple of days for the gaskets so it will be sometime next week if I don't give out first.

[JimKwiatkowski]

Danny,I see your retired must be nice to work on your car all day if you want :) I've got 7 years before I retire then I can work on my 57 all day if I want it's a fun hobby :D

[astumbo2002]

Yes, I am retired. I also have 6 rods to keep up and a 1954 cabover chevy in the works. I have a 1962 chevy, 1966 chevy2, 1948 ford- chevy power, 1971 vw convertable, 1966 dodge big block 440, and a 1962 Ford wagon with big block ford, and all my honey do jobs so I stay busy. Thanks again for the help.

Danny

[Mr Goodwrench]

Danny I hope this machine shop that installed you cam bearing incorrectly is at least going to pay for another gasket set, and any other parts needed to fix there mistake. :takethat

[Tom Kochtanek]

Danny:

I still have my engine on the stand and my next task is to install and degree the cam, and measure pushrod length. Guess what the first thing I am going to check for? Cam bearing alignment.

Thanks for initiating your post and seeing through to the solution. Sorry it was such a pain for you. Isn't this Forum great at asynchronous collaborative problem solving? Thanks to all who contributed. We are once again indebted to you collectively :)

Best,
TomK

[JimKwiatkowski]

Danny,your a busy man with all those vehicles.When you find some time we all would like to see photos :) We have a Photo Album section you could display all your vehicles.

[astumbo2002]

No they fixed the cam bearing and that was it. They did bring the cam bearing tool to my place and rotated the bearing. Might get discount on next machine work
I have done. Ha Ha
Danny

[MRHP]

Correct me if I am wrong, but cam bearings can't be rotated or removed and reused. I would spring for a new set of bearings. Better safe than sorry. :dunno

[astumbo2002]

The machine shop said no problem to remove and rotate the bearing. I watched the machine shop take the bearing out, turn it to the correct position and reinstall it. I ran a test pump on it after it was reinstalled and it seemed to be fine.


Danny

[MRHP]

But remember, these are also the guys that installed it incorrectly in the first place! :?

[dq409]

But remember, these are also the guys that installed it incorrectly in the first place! :?


Once bitten,,,, twice shy ,,,,,,,

[astumbo2002]

The engine is back together and in the car running. I posted some pictures of the old beater if anyone is interested.

Danny

[JimKwiatkowski]

Danny,Nice clean looking 62 it would be a sleeper at the traffic lights if you didn't have 409 flags :D

[astumbo2002]

Yeah but the flags are part of the fun.

Danny

[astumbo2002]

I had the same problem with my engine. The machine shop installed the cam bearing incorrectly and missed the oiling hole to the left side rockers. Only way that I know to check is to pull the engine , pull out rear cam plug and look to see if all three holes are open.

Danny