Going to Test 'n Tune the Stocker !

[CDNpontiac409guy]

Well... it's not an NHRA or IHRA Stock race. I think I'll leave that till I figure this thing out !
Got invited to join another Stocker guy for the test day. He runs a G Stock 327 4 speed 68 Nova.
Been watching the Calgary weather report, and it's LOOKING GOOD !.
Forecast for this Saturday ( Aug 28th ) is mainly sunny and 70 degrees. There is a test and tune session prior to the "event" that is going on on Sunday.
Test 'n Tune is what I will be doing on Saturday :D !

Remember... 3700 feet. Even if I just barely break into the 11's, I'm still 3 or 4 tenths under my index.

Get'n REAL nervous now :(

BTW, if there are any local W block nuts who aren't busy on Saturday... PLEASE do come down and say hello :help ;) . I hope to be there between noon and 6:00 PM.

[DIV1RACER-2]

Aubrey


Good luck , be safe & go fast!! The altitude correction is published somewhere in the NHRA site not sure where .Your going :clap :clap to make some history sat. The last one to run a "409" stocker that i know of was Bobby Hicks from Alberque N.M. I have most of his parts he had left after he sold car to Gary Harmon . His car ran a couple of tenths over the index before the horsepower adj.




Denny

[CDNpontiac409guy]

HA !
Sound advice, Denny...I'll try to do just that.

BTW, What year did MR Hicks ( the last person who was crazy enough to run a 409 in Stock, deserves to be addressed as "MR" ! ) last run in Stock ?
With the horsepower factor, my index is about exactly what his car would have been turning.

[TomO]

Aubrey - I cant wait to hear your results from the test and tune.

Tom O

[CDNpontiac409guy]

Thanks Tom !

Here's a picture that I took this evening ( Aug 27 ).
You can see that I changed coils on the front to lower the ride height.
( no, I DON'T tie down like that ! )

[JimKwiatkowski]

Aubrey,I really like your new ride height I think it's :cool: Alot of guys on this site like the 60's look with the high front end.I perfer the low front end my 57 and Camaro are 3 inchs lower in front end.It does serve a purpose your car does have better weight transfer.Todays race cars are level or a little low in the front end.

[JimKwiatkowski]

Tow rig is also :cool:

[dq409]

Cool !! Starting to look like my ride hieght !! heeee heee

Let us know how you do !!

GIVE`M HELL !!!

[CDNpontiac409guy]

MAN, I must be even dumber than I ( and I'm sure a few others ) thought.
I just CAN'T seem to pick up on the FACT that the deck is stacked against me on this WHOLE thing :takethat :bang
You think I'm kidding :dunno :rofl
No, I never broke anything, and THAT does make me happy.

Let me explain.

All day Saturday, here in Hanna, overcast with a touch of rain momentarily. Delayed leaving here due to a COMPLETE turn around in the forecast ( Race City is about 140 miles from me ). Cleared up a bit, so we left. Ended up driving through 50 miles of POURING rain storm... as it it turned out, there was a tornado watch for the area. You've seen my truck... this is not the kind of weather I look for.
Oddly enough, the storm by-passed the track by about 4 miles. STILL, it had rained ALL summer ( we are normally known for being one of the driest areas in North America ).

Annyhoo... We got there a bit late. No matter. There was water seeping through one side of the track at the starting line, so they had delayed the testing until about 7:00 PM.
Went through tech without a problem... with my permanent NHRA / IHRA number... that was cool ! Warmed the driveline ( on stands ), then checked a few things and got into line. With some guidance from a VERY accomplished Stock racer, Bob Gullett, from Calgary, I staged the car.
Launched lightly... spinning a bit, ( bogging a bit too ! )... shifting easy at around 6800... went through the traps at just under 7200 RPM ( peaked out pretty early ).
Pick up my time slip....
THEIR TIMING SYSTEM QUIT ON MY RUN

One more sign of things to come !

I'll cut the story short. At the insistance of my wife no less, we ( whole family )ended up staying overnight in Calgary. Could not afford being there, yet alone staying there !
Made 3 more runs over the weekend.
However, after the 'granny" run on Saturaday night... the transmission never came out of 2nd gear again. Shifter box was "slipping"... allowing the 2/3 lever to sit there, stuck in 2nd, while the lever mechanism pulled out of it and went into the 3/4 gate. NEVER had that issue before.
Well... still launched... and I can tell you that after I upped my fuel pressure a touch and added 2 degrees timing... dropping the hammer at just over 6000 RPM... I was LEAVING the line ! Wheels up... off the ground again into 2nd. 60 ft is not great... but not bad. 1.65... Still spinning a bit.
PICTURES !
Wife had the digital camera, so we should get some "daylight" shots !
not.
ONE MORE TIME... the digital camera consumed ONE MORE SET of batteries :doh ( no, on a Sunday, there is NO-WHERE within about 8 miles of the track that you can buy batteries... not to mention, no time )

What I DO know ( besides the FACT that I am TRULY on the edge of getting out of this ) is:

1.65 60 ft
7200 RPM through the traps... 5.13 gear with a 28" diameter tire.

Perhaps the more experienced racers here can give me an idea what this car is doing for ET / speed :help

Here is the closest thing that there is to a picture:

[CDNpontiac409guy]

I should mention...
My brother with the 55 Chevy, had his car at the track in Gimli Manitoba for the first time on the same day as me :beerbang He hasn't been on a drag strip since 1984. Because of this, and the fact he was a little nervous, he had an experience driver run his car.
His car:
55 2dr post... COMPLETELY stock original body, front end / chassis.
Fresh 470 cube BBC, with a 175HP nitrous shot... dynoed at 760HP at the rear wheels.
Car has a built TH400 now. Was just TOO out of control with the stick ( I drove it... even I agree with the decision :clap )
28 X 12 Hoosier DOT slicks

With the slicks smoking... front tires 6 inches off the ground... how about a 10.09 @ 135.6 MPH !
Made a couple passes like that !

Now... the BIG DEAL:

This car has a 55-64 Chevy rear end in it, using my modifications... IE, bearing caps, 30 spline large axles, webbed housing. No spool though, because he had intentions of a lot of street driving.
This thing hung together !
When we go into his project almost 2 years ago, we were looking at around 550 HP at the flywheel. NEVER thought it would end up at 800+.
But, that's my brother :doh ;)

[bobs409]

Hey everybody, if your ever near Aubrey, don't stand too close. An airplane might fall on you! :D That's some tough luck Aubrey, sorry to hear all that. And I thought I had bad luck. :(

I did want to mention that those digital cameras do eat batteries!!! I suggest buying the rechargeable kind and a charger. Supposedly, those batteries can be charged like 300 times or more. I've done mine about 20 times so far and it's already paid for itself. You'd go broke buying regular batteries for these things. :eek

In your case, you might want to buy 2 or 3 sets of batteries for any road trips. Or take the charger with you?

[TomO]

Aubrey - Keep on it!!!! I have no idea what it is like to leave the line with the front tires off of the ground. Must be a real rush!!! All the more reason to get to KC for the Wednesday night grudge. Get your brother to split the gas for the trip and bring his 55' to run in the outlaw class.

Congrats on the durability test of the rear end kit.

TomO

[jim_ss409]

I just ran the 28" tire with 5.13 gears at 7200 rpm through this calculator and it came up with 117mph. :eek: :cheers http://www.csgnetwork.com/multirpmtirecalc.html I found a bunch of ET calculators on the web but you have to know the weight of the car. It's too bad you couldn't get a time slip because it looks like that car's gonna be quick. :deal

[CDNpontiac409guy]

Thanks for sharing in my frustration, guys :hug .

Don't think it was THAT fast, Jim. A little slippage, a little smaller in actual tire diameter, ect. Mind you, I sure had a heck of a time slowing this thing down ;) .
Nah... seriously, probably about 113-114. That's REAL fast for Calgary.
This lowering of the front end seems quite effective too. Felt a little more "slippery" at the top end.

I dunno. I don't have the time or money to try it again before Kansas... and I'm not very excited about the idea of trying to get the car to work... right IN FRONT OF everybody :stooges :doh .

Oh, Jim K... Yes, I like low too :D :cool: .

[fatride]

Aubrey, congrats, With a 1.65 60' your ET should be great! ET is made in the first 1/3 of the track! Can't wait to see you in KC. :clap

[DIV1RACER-2]

Aubrey


It is hard to calcuate ET from mph , there are too many variables. If your numbers are correct , the MPH should be in the 116.50 range ! PRETTY STOUT for 3700 ' altitude ! The 60' times will suffer also , the air is just not there to make the power. The conditions are also effected by the weather front that was in the area on saturday ! The adjusted altitude will be even higher !!

What's up w/the shifter , was it a LONG shifter that came from JERICO ??
I have had a few problems w/ mine , but nothing serious .


Don't worry about the 60' ft times , i'll bring you something to KC that will fix that!!!!!


MR. HICKS last ran his b/s biscayne in 1988 [ pretty sure ]





Denny

[Travis Horton]

Aubrey,
When I dropped the nose on my car in '97 I picked up a tenth and 1.5 mph. No kidding! Also, a month ago I broke the driver side cap (no strap) and destroyed the ring and pinion. I've broken two cases in the past also. Good luck on the pumpkin, hog's head, etc. not breaking.(any other names for the third member?!)
Travis

[CDNpontiac409guy]

No Travis, this definitely won't break :brow .. Caps, 30 spline, spool.
Ya' HAVE to do caps if you're gonna run these things :doh .
Your description of the improvement you realized by lowering the car... You bet ! THAT's what it feels like :cheers

No Denny... no Long shifter ( $700 CDN :mad: )... Ancient Hurst Super Shifter that was old when I had it on my 61 Biscayne in 1986-1990. I have a basically new shifter box here that I am going to swap in.
Right now, I have the rear end apart. I think I should change to 4.88's from the 5.13's. If I am ever fortunate enough to run in good heavy sea level air, I'll buzz this poor engine out of site :eek: Not going to help my 60ft though.

1988 you say ? That's a lot more recent than I thought. B Stock ? HHMMM... Mine fell into C before my infamous "letter" ;) .

[Steve "wully bully"]

Aubrey,
Save your pennies, save your dimes!! When you do, buy the Long shifter, you will never miss a shift, unless you are like Carl, and BREAK the shifter. Carl has run Long shifters forever, and is only one of two people to ever break one! We run them in both cars, they are finely machined works of art.
Also, never say never. We twisted off a set of 33 spline Strange axles, and broke the ring gear, in a Dana 60 rear under the sedan! All things will eventually break when subjected to large forces, the question is only when.
Steven

[dq409]

OZ, Don`t get too disapointed !
Being the first time out you found out what needs to be addressed and can now do that.

I know what happened when I ran my 62 the first couple times !!
If I had a few people there that are going to be in KC I know it would have been much better and would have saved me hours of tinkering to get where I`m at now !
I figure with all the experence that will be there I`ll get a ton of education on tuning my car and THAT will be a bonus !

Fix those things and bring it to KC.

I plan on being there to test and tune on weds nite because I haven`t had my 62 out for a long time.

Even so,,,, Ya gotta bring it and run it !!! ,,, dq

[Dond409]

Don't worry Aubrey,

Save me a spot in the transporter, and I'll ride out and give you a hand at KCI on Saturday. I'll be flying in on the morning of September 16. I can't wait to meet all you guys.

[CDNpontiac409guy]

Oh, but DQ, I shouldn't have to be fixing the shifter :mad: ... That was working when I left :dunno .

Don... You'r NOT bringing your car ? :? :( . I was looking forward to seeing a mid 12 sec station wagon :brow

forgot to mention... This VP C11 race fuel... NICE STUFF :deal . INSTANT response to a 2-3 degree change in timing. THAT'S the way it's supposed to be !

[Dond409]

Nope, not bringing the wagon. Not enough time off to. I'll bring it to the next convention.

[dq409]

Thats two of us that are disapointed !!!

O well ,,, without your car that leaves more time for you to tune mine !! :D :D

[Dond409]

I suppose I could do that. :D

[region rat]

Aubrey. At 7200 those ties should grow. At 7200 with 28 " tires I sed to be at about 119. Was the conventon great or what? Sorry I missed you. Was looking forard to seeing you and the car. Bob

[CDNpontiac409guy]

Thank you, Bob....
I never made it though.

[CDNpontiac409guy]

Ya know, it doesn't even matter that my car was a slug. This Mcleod clutch is an impossibly unpredictable unit... this time uncontrolable / un-correctable slippage in high gear, and even 3rd.
Last night, I DIDN'T CARE !!!
You bet !
On a moments notice, yesterday morning, a fellow from Pennsylvania got some money to me for a 3362 carb that I had. This gave my wife ( yes sir, I DID say my wife :hug ) the idea that we should try and go to Calgary Race City to make a last chance effort to have a bit of fun. This was the last day ( night ) of the season for this area... last chance for me till late spring.
Just a simple Street Legal grudge night, we were allowed to run open headers until 10:30.

We loaded the car and left Hanna at about 3:30 in the afternoon. My wife and I met up with my long time friend "Mr Skroht" in Calgary, and headed to the track for gate opening at 6:30. Breezed through tech, and relaxed for a while. We started running just after dark.
At Calgary's 3500+ elevation, combined with the notoriously light fast moving air, and a bit of a head wind:

Had 3 passes:

1st one... 13.7 @ 90 MPH. "Good 'ol $1400 McLeod clutch" slipped so bad that I pulled the gear out of 4th into neutral... just coasting the last 500 ft.

2nd one... I added a couple "turns" to the "Good 'ol $1400 McLeod clutch" ( this was now 10 turns up from base )...
Ran 12.74 @ 104.5 MPH... This time only slipping through 4th.

3rd pass... Added another 1/2 turn to the "Good 'ol $1400 McLeod clutch".
Had a best of 12.47 @ 105 MPH. Now the clutch was slipping through only the last 400 ft of the track.

Yes, laughable.
It DOESN'T MATTER !!!
I had more fun than I've had all year... and CERTAINLY more fun than I've had since last Wedensday :D .
Oh, and if you're wondering if it really IS necessary to have that $700 + CDN Long shifter for the Jerico ?
NOT!!!!! :evil :rofl
this new Hurst box in my H pattern Super Shifter JUST ROCKS ! ( Yeah, I can drive too ;) ).
On two occasions, spectators came out of the stands to talk and ask about the car. They thought it was just a cool old decaled-up Chevy, not a genuine E Stock race car, because you can't have an automatic in E Stock !
Actually, there were people at my pit area all night. Did lots of talking and answering questions. SURE, maybe that's why I only got 3 runs ( there was no way to adjust for better speed anyhow ), but it was VERY enjoyable to meet all these people, of all ages, from 18 - 70. My own private little Kansas City, you might say.

Thank you for listening ONE MORE TIME !

[dq409]

Yep,,, FUN !!! Thats what it is really all about, isn`t it?

I also had a blast last night !!

Doesn`t matter what the times are, just the fact that you are there racing !!

Once you get that clutch figured out the time wiil come.
Now if I can only figure out where my top end is,,,,,, :D

BTW,,, Say hello to "Mr. Skroht" for me !!!,,,, dq

[Steve "wully bully"]

Aubrey,
Sounds great!!! Glad you could get some E.T. slips finally. There's nothing better for the ails of life than making some passes down the quarter, running your 409!! :clap
Steven

[CDNpontiac409guy]

Thanks, Jim and Steve :D ...
Out for the season, but that's OK. Maybe now I'll be less distracted.

Here's a couple pictures of me in the car, backing off the trailer, and a REALLY embarassing silly picture of me with my first time slip :p :rolleyes: ( I look kinda like this :D

HEE HEE HAA HEE HEE !!!

[dq409]

GEZZZZ,,,, Look at that GRIN !!!!
I wish I could have been there to see you race !!! And that smile !!!!! :cheers

[SS425HP]

I think I see a happy man. :clap Good for you, Aubrey. I want to play, now. Getting tired of watching all these other guys have all the fun. Do you think you are getting the clutch figured out, yet?
Aubrey, come on down south. The weather is nice. Still racing down here. You had snow yet? I swear, that weather up there would depress me so bad. You have how many summer months? Not many. I don't think I could stand it. This area is bad enough. I'm going to try to spend more time at my brother's place this winter. Might have to haul the car down there. Looks like I'm going to haul it out to CA first. Got to get this header deal going.
DQ, I finally got the 1 7/8 okayed. That is the way we are going. Going to try to do Tri-Y and 4 tube at 1 7/8. Wish me luck. Dean loved the show. He was really pumped up. He saw a lot of old friends, too. I think he saw that the 09 still lives.
Going to Famosa this next weekend. The CHRR. See more old friends. Hope there are some 409s there.

Fred

[bobs409]

Just don't go too far South like to Florida! Geez, sure glad I don't live there. Has anyone checked on Richard? :D

I often wonder if any of our beloved Late Greats get destroyed with all those hurricanes. Florida probably has alot of nice rust free cars. (or did)

[dq409]

Fred, Dean was at the convention?

Darn, I would have loved to talk to him,,,,, or maybe I did and didn`t know !! heee heee

Thats great news about the 1 7/8 " headers !!!

So if you take your car to Calif, I take it, it will be used as the mock-up car for the headers?
You lucky guy !!! :D ,,, dq

[fourspeed409]

I had some fun at the races this weekend also. It was the 1st time racing for me. I set a goal for the weekend and I was able to achieve my goal by the end of the weekend. I wasn't racing the 62 but I still had a ton of fun. I got to blow the doors off of a Mustang and I went up against my best friend in his 56 Chevy twice.
The funniest part was in the 1st round of racing on Sunday we where paired against each other (the 56). He really heated the tires up for some good bite and headed for the beams. I had been getting mid to low .6 lights all weekend so I wanted to push the tree a little harder to get the jump on him. Well we both beat ourselves. I went red, and with all that extra bite he broke the stock 56 rear. He did manage to get to the next round because we had the rear from my 62 in the truck as a spare. In about 10 minutes he was ready to go. Most of the hardcore racers pitted near us where standing around laughing at us and teasing me for putting up a red against a broken car. (I was dialed .2 slower so I left 1st anyways). It was a ton of fun and I now plan to be a regular at it.
Shane

[fourspeed409]

How cool is this?
My best friends racing setup. Car and truck both in primer with spray can flames. Both 56s. Car runs a 350, T10 and 4.10s in the back. Truck is bone stock except the 265 sports 305 heads for running on unleaded fuel and it has a 4 speed on the floor.
Shane

[CDNpontiac409guy]

Oh yes, Fred, I was a HAPPY guy !!!
Just had fun all night !

I see you did too, Shane :clap . And that photo of the truck and car .... OH YEAH !

[dq409]

Sheeezammm !! what a sweet combo !!

This racing stuff is fun !! Ain`t it !!!???

One question though,,,, with your rear there too were you planning on his breaking? Good thinking !!!

It`s also a blast to have a classy tow rig to tow that classic car !!
,,dq

[DIV1RACER-2]

:help

AUBREY , WHAT TYPE CLUTCH ARE YOU HAVING PROBLEM'S WITH ?

1. I EXPECT IT IS A LONG STYLE ?


2. WHAT ARE THE STATIC PRESSURES. LOW & HIGH


3. WHAT IS THIS ADJUSTMENT RANGE ?


4. IS IT A METALLIC PADDLED DISC ?


5. ARE YOU SURE THROW OUT BRG. ISN'T BOTTOMING ON BEARING RETAINER ?







THE LONG STYLE W/ PROPER SPRING PRESSURE & DISC ISN'T THE FASTEST ASSY BUT A GOOD RELIABLE PIECE THAT WILL GIVE MANY TROUBLE FREE RUNS.


I RUN IN BOTH CARS SOME OLD TECHNOLIGY CLUTCH ASSYS. THAT HAVE BEEN RELIABLE & TROUBLE FREE FOR MANY YEARS. :clap



DENNY

[CDNpontiac409guy]

:help

AUBREY , WHAT TYPE CLUTCH ARE YOU HAVING PROBLEM'S WITH ?

1. I EXPECT IT IS A LONG STYLE ?
Yes... 10.5" McLeod Long style soft lock


2. WHAT ARE THE STATIC PRESSURES. LOW & HIGH
Don't know !... lots of turns


3. WHAT IS THIS ADJUSTMENT RANGE ?
About 12 turns from base


4. IS IT A METALLIC PADDLED DISC ?
Yes it is


5. ARE YOU SURE THROW OUT BRG. ISN'T BOTTOMING ON BEARING RETAINER ?
Positive. I have about 2" free play in the pedal. Yes, I DID check clearance at the bearing retainer when I assembled the car. That was one of the few things that fit properly. Nobody ever mentioned that the trans mount pad on this Jerico is located in such a way that it cause the rear of the trans to be about 3/4" higher than a normal tyransmission.


THE LONG STYLE W/ PROPER SPRING PRESSURE & DISC ISN'T THE FASTEST ASSY BUT A GOOD RELIABLE PIECE THAT WILL GIVE MANY TROUBLE FREE RUNS.


I RUN IN BOTH CARS SOME OLD TECHNOLIGY CLUTCH ASSYS. THAT HAVE BEEN RELIABLE & TROUBLE FREE FOR MANY YEARS. :clap

Pretty much what I'm starting to think, Denny !

DENNY

No centrifugal appears to be my problem. No money or time to deal with it for a few months anyhow !