409 Suburban, original 1964 4x4

[Brunsink]

I have a 1964 Chevy Suburban 4x4 with a 409. The block number is 3830814 which from what I have found out is also a 1963 "Z11" 427 block. Can anyone varify this and let know what it is and what it might be worth? Also is it worth more in the truck as original or should I sell it?
Thanks,
Steve

[dadz409]

Hello,
I don't have 1964 manuals to see if the Suburban was available with a 409, but all 1963 and 64 409 passenger cars had this block. If the truck was built with this block it should have another set of numbers on the passenger side head pad, that include the serial number of the vehicle and a set that starts with "T". Example: T0128QR
As for value, a good complete 409 passenger car engine is worth $1000's, a good complete truck is worth less. If the Suburban came from the factory with the 409, I am sure it is one rare puppy. Our family had a Chev Olds dealership in these years and I don't recall the 409 being available in all but very heavy trucks (school busses and firetrucks to name a few).
Maybe someone will weigh in on this subject with more knowledge than I have provided. Good Luck, Gary

[Brunsink]

Thanks for the reply, attached is a link to an original 409 Surban, I have never been able to find Mark Long but it says he has the original build sheet to proove it. This truck is the same as mine except that my truck has the original black paint, is unrestored, completely rust free but lots of dents. I will have to look for additional numbers on the block, anymore input would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Steve



http://www.classictruckshop.com/clubs/earlyburbs/members/gallery2/213/display.htm

[jim_ss409]

That sounds like a nice truck to restore. As for the block being the same casting number as a Z-11 all 63's fall into that category. It's the stuff like the Z-11 heads and intake that are rare and valuable. I think that engine would definately be most valuable bolted into the truck. One of the regular contributors to the old site had a really beautifully restored 409 pickup truck that I think was original. All the older members would remember Marv. I gotta think that if that truck came with a 409 not to mention that it's a 4X4, they weren't as common back then, it has to be very rare.

[dadz409]

Hello,
After a day of researching the questionable 409 Suburban I feel confident in saying, it didn't come from the factory that way. I have much internal documentation on the 348/409 years and no pick-up's left the assembly line with a 348 or 409. The Suburban is really just a heavy-duty pick-up with available 4X4. Trucks and passenger cars were built on different assembly lines, and the w-engine was not available to install even if it would fit, which it won't. I have copies of the original dealership ordering blanks, and there isn't even a line to specify an optional engine, you check from the 2 or 3 available options.
The zone office manuals have the 348 and 409 available as a truck engine option when the GVW is 15000 lbs and above, thus the use in school busses, semi's, dump trucks and firetrucks. If for some reason you could have ordered a Suburban with a 409, it would have been a truck, low compression version. Trucks and cars were not built at the same assembly plants, so the high horsepower version would not have been available.
At our dealership crate 348's and 409's were available over the counter until the late 60's so the only pick-ups that came with the w-block, were tied down in the bed.
I would like to see a copy of the truck build sheet though. Take care, Gary

[SS425HP]

Not to say my memory is the greatest, but I have no memory of a 409 Suburban. A friend of mine and myself put a 409 in a Suburban several years ago. I think it was a 63, though. In the pick up trucks, the heavy duty engine was a V 6. My Dad bought one of those, and I used it to tow my 63 to the strip. They were stump pullers, but wouldn't pass a gas station. The 409 wasn't available untill you got into the bigger stuff, as stated above.

Fred

[Loafer409]

" and the w-engine was not available to install even if it would fit, which it won't. "
====

Somebody once told me the same thing about a 409 in a 73 Jeep CJ. I'm here to tell they were/are wrong and a 700r4 goes along with it...09

Oh Bob can I have a Jeep board????:D

Ps. That is one good looking buran...09

[dq409]

I knowticed the `Burb site that truck was from Oregon and you being from the land of GIANT skeeters did you buy it from out here ? Nice find !! ,,dq

[droptop62]

I don't fully agree with the guys that say it would not have come from the factory
with the 409 motor.
It could have very well been special ordered.
Back in the 50's and 60's there was a lot of flexibility on ordering a vehicle.
There have been a lot of documented cars that have been built on the assembly line that came with parts or options not specific to what was available to the vehicle on the order sheet.
I have an old article somewhere on this very subject.
If I can find it, I will post it.
Just because it is not general knowledge doesn't mean it wasn't possible.
Never say Never.

[crawler]

Hey Brunsink, can you post some picks of your black 409 burb? Would love to see it! I vote for keeping the engine with the truck, thats one nice, rare and cool combo. As for originality, I don't think the light duty trucks could be ordered with W engines from the factory, but this is only based on the fact that I have never seen any original literature indicating this (I have studied LOTS looking for this combo and clues to odd variations).Maybe special orders did exist. I do think they could be ordered 'dealer installed' at some dealerships. I have seen numerous examples of these over the years (at least 348's in 58 - 62 trucks). I'm not as sure about 409's in 63 and up as, besides the red one, yours is the only other 409 version I have heard of. I have seen about 10 - 15 examples of 58-62 348 versions over the years (unrestored farm/work trucks) Here is a link to what maybe another one I posted about on our Ebay Related forum: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...item=2411862793 As for the fellow who said they will not fit... well I guess if they didn't, then we would't be having this discussion?

crawler

[crawler]

Hey, Bob - this thread is the kind of content I was thinking of with regards to the 58 - 65 truck forum sugestion. Of course I love the cars, but there must be a few other nuts out there who like/have/want to have W block trucks or at least find them cool. How many of us have been driving down a back road somewhere, thinking the usual same old boring stuff, when Bam! our eyeballs catch a glimps of an old two ton Chev beside a barn and instinctively want to know if there's a W under the hood? But were still young (not me! the forum!). If there's not enough interest now, maybe the idea could be revisited at a a later time when the membership is bigger?

crawler

[bobs409]

I think your right. We should have a place for the trucks too. After all, that is where the w-motor started out. While im not sure these engines were ever available in the pickups and Suburbans, we do know they were in bigger trucks like the C-60's and C-80's. Everything from fire trucks and garbage trucks to school buses. :D

I'll add a truck section today. The nice thing about having individual forums like this is that anyone that is not interested in a particular topic, can simply skip over that forum. And having seperate forums keeps thing tidy and organized. Covering all the areas of these great years allows for more visitor input from a broader range of people too. Yep, im 4 it. :D

:cheers

[bobs409]

Oh yeh, I know that feeling you mentioned about finding one of those big old trucks. Whenever I see one in the junkyard, I can actually feel my heart rate going up as I "close in" on it to pop the hood. Unfortunatly, I usually only find a greasy old 6 cylinder there instead. :cry