House Rules (please read)

[bobs409]

In view of the way things have been going on the forum lately, some "house rules" have been enacted and will be enforced for the good of the forum. These are now in the forum FAQ section. Below is a copy of those rules.

Member Behavior

The 348-409.com Info Exchange forum is here to help others and everyone that participates on the 348-409.com Info Exchange forum deserves to be treated respectfully. In order to keep this forum a fun, friendly and helpful place, we do have a few house rules that must be followed:

1) Provoking an argument or deliberate harrassment of another member will not be tolerated. This is our main house rule and it will be strictly enforced. Those that break this rule will have their posting priveleges revoked for 2 weeks for the first offense, 1 month for the second and a third offense will result in a permanent ban of that member with no possibility of returning. 3 strikes and your out, no exceptions!

2) Using foul language. Although we have a cuss filter here, anyone that continually attempts to use foul language will be banned for 2 weeks for the first offense, 1 month for the second and a third offense will result in a permanent ban of that member. This is a G rated site, please keep bad language off our forum.

3) Posting offensive pictures or nudity. Please keep these type of pictures off of our forum. Again, our site is G rated so please think before posting.


Vendor Bashing

Vendor bashing is not something we like to see here. We all have had bad experiences with a business or two at some point. Some make good for their mistakes, some don't but please do not continually bash a vendor on our forum.

It is acceptable to speak of your experience (if asked) for the benefit of others as long as it doesn't go too far.

Posts that have strong or repeated vendor bashing may be subject to editing or removal by the administration.

*Note that some of the vendors we commonly deal with in our hobby are visitors and/or financial contributors of 348-409.com and deserve the same courteous treatment that everyone else gets.


Buy/Sell forums

Our Buy/Sell forums are open to all active members of the 348-409.com Info Exchange forum. Commercial ads are not allowed and if discovered, they will be removed with or without notice or warning.

Those that sign up to our forum for the sole purpose of selling or posting ads in our Buy/Sell forums may have their membership revoked. If you have a business and think our members would be interested in your product(s), contact the administration about a possible link exchange or to be added to our vendor section in the FAQ.



Please note that these rules are here to help make everyones visit a pleasant one so please follow them. We're all in this crazy hobby together and should stick together. :)


Bob

[JokersBel]

Bob, we need a "good sellers," "bad sellers," "good buyers," and "bad buyers," sections. It'd be a realm to help relay our "experiences" on to other trustworthy members here. It works in other forums and is something to think about. :)

Jim

[dq409]

Bob, we need a "good sellers," "bad sellers," "good buyers," and "bad buyers," sections. It'd be a realm to help relay our "experiences" on to other trustworthy members here. It works in other forums and is something to think about. :)

Jim

How about a "Rambler" section? Dig dang dong it !!,,,

Say Bob,,, How come the pictures don`t show in the older post? is there an experation date?,,,,,

PS,,, I`ll try and behave,,,,, :rolleyes:

[SS425HP]

How about a "Rambler" section? Dig dang dong it !!,,,

Say Bob,,, How come the pictures don`t show in the older post? is there an experation date?,,,,,

PS,,, I`ll try and behave,,,,, :rolleyes:


GOOD LUCK :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

[California L33]

I think the best way for vendors to avoid being "bashed" is to provide good products and customer service. If someone lies about their experiences and it costs the vendor business or loss of reputation, the person who put those lies is a public forum is subject to the laws of libel.
Personally I'd like to know which vendors are stand up guys, which ones are out and out crooks, and most importantly, which ones "shade the truth," because they're the most difficult ones weed out- like the guy on eBay right now selling a 409 motor. He lists the head number, and if you look it up (or really know your 409 heads) you find out it's a truck motor, yet nowhere in his listing does he say it's a truck motor. He says it was rebuilt for his '61 or '62 Bel Air, and the pictures show it next to the car, implying that's where it came from. So he hasn't actually lied, but you know he thought about what he was doing. It took more time to look up and type the head number in the listing than to have typed, "truck motor, small valves, 7.5:1 compression."
I'm all for keeping it civil, and nobody like a whiner, but if valid criticism is removed the forum will loose credibility.

[bobs409]

How about a "Rambler" section? Dig dang dong it !!,,,

Say Bob,,, How come the pictures don`t show in the older post? is there an experation date?,,,,,

PS,,, I`ll try and behave,,,,, :rolleyes:

Pictures should still be there if they were uploaded. (attached) If you can give me a link to any threads that have missing pics I'll see if I can figure it out.

[bobs409]

JokersBel: I wouldn't want to do that because some of our contributors and members are also vendors here. I know from experience that sooner or later, someone is going to recieve the wrong part or something will go wrong with an order and things could get ugly fast. (alot of times, someone will just "vent" on the board rather than inform the vendor who will in most cases, correct the problem)

California: Basically the same answer as above. It's ok to mention a problem if someone asks as long as it doesn't turn ugly. I'm just trying to stop anyone from starting an all out attack on a vendor or repeated attacks that may be part of our group. (some are lurkers/contributors) Example: Recently some things were said about Chevy Rumble and Doug Marion. Alot may not know it but Doug is a member here, he just hasn't posted yet. How do you think he felt when he read that post? I'd like to keep this type of stuff off the forum.

I need to try and keep everyone happy and this is one way to help do that.

Of course, anyone is free to use the private messages or e-mail to voice whatever opinion you would like to another.

[fatride]

Bob, I agree. This is an open apology. I started the thread about Chevy Rumble not knowing that Doug Marion was the author. I know that Doug would have never put down the W engine. The post was directed toward the unknowing or uniformed that make comments about the W engine at car shows. Most of the people who own a W powered car know the real story. It was not intended as a put down of Doug or Chevy Rumble. I regret having posted the thread. My sincere apology to Doug Marion and Chevy Rumble. The thread has been deleted.

Doug I am sorry for my misdirected comments!
I remain, a Doug Marion fan and Chevy Rumble Reader.

[bobs409]

Ray, I knew you didn't really mean any harm and that's why I didn't get involved. You've been with our group since the Yahoo days and have been one of our star pupils. :D

Sorry to use that thread as an example but it's the first thing that came to mind.

I do hope everyone understands why I have the rules in place. It's only to help keep the forum running smooth and to try and treat all equally.

Believe me, I'm not on a power trip or anything. :D I'd like nothing more than to never have to enforce any of the rules. If I ever have to ban someone, it's gonna hurt me more than them I think. :cry Until the recent heated discussions, we had no need to even have rules posted.

I'm all for sharing vendor experiences to help others but please use the private messages or e-mail for that especially for negative comments.

[jester]

How about a "Rambler" section? Dig dang dong it !!,,,

Say Bob,,, How come the pictures don`t show in the older post? is there an experation date?,,,,,

PS,,, I`ll try and behave,,,,, :rolleyes:
Yaa, right , and the check is in the mail. :rofl :rofl :rofl

[dq409]

Pictures should still be there if they were uploaded. (attached) If you can give me a link to any threads that have missing pics I'll see if I can figure it out.


Bob, I have looked at a lot of old posts hoping to copy the pictures that I posted.

I lost most or all of my pictures of my engine and car build up when my compuker crashed but all the threads i visited didn`t have the photos anymore.

I can look some of them up later when I have time again.


Bob, You do a great job of moderating this site !

There have been times when we (me) get out of line and you let us try and work it out on our own. Sometimes letting it go on more then it should.
But,,, I think you do this to try and be fair to us to try and work it out between our selves as adults. opps,,,did I just refer to us as adults?

Sometimes we just get carried away with our stance.

I think I have learned a lot about controlling my rants and confrontations from my past fights and really try to keep it under control.
Once I see it has gone its course or is getting way outa line I try to back off.
I can`t say I don`t get overboard sometimes but I am way better then i was a while back.

It also was a big help to get to know these guys at the convention.
You get to view them as people and friends now rather then just typed words !!
This even goes for the ones I`ve never met. A new pespective, if you will.

One more thing.,,,,,

It is nice that the suporting members here are not or don`t have an elete group seperated from the non-suporting members !!:D

I don`t thing that is right and delutes the site as has happened on other forums.

Thanks Bob,,,dq

[Fran Preve]

1) I don't see anything wrong with L33's post, when someone posts something for sale somewhere and it's obvious or not so obvious a misrepresentation why not alert us (as nice as possible)?. Personally I don't like "protecting" vendors or sellers who aren't exactly on the up and up. Who are your serving, vendors, sellers or us?.

2) I've been crapped on and disagreed with, don't mind the disagreements, sometimes I actually LEARN things!. But those who just like to crap on me should be dealt with, I don't like it when it gets personal, and I DEFINATELY have been guilty of the same but 90% of the time in retaliation. I must control myself.

3) I don't like posts being deleted and not being told their deleted, if you delete a post from NAYONE you should have the courtsey to Email that person and tell them why.

4) Just because a magazine editor/magazine is registered here shouldn't mean their immune to critisizm, and I AM NOT refering to any single one, I have a "disagreeement" going on with a muscle car magaine going on right now. I drives me CRAZY when a magazine prints something as FACT when it's either wrong or incomplete. When you email them and explain the correction the just blow it off, not even the courtesy of a reply. Some magazines are full of themselves. There should be a way to post your personal opinions/corrections (with explanations!) and not be cut out.

5) There are only a few registered members here who know what their talking about IN MY OPINION!, Aubrey (CDN), Richard (MKII), Walkerheaders, Hitman, and maybe one or two others that don't come to me. They don't just answer or comment they EXPLAIN that explanation and answer. Some people sometimes don't agree with them, that's life, but they are a BIG help to MANY members who need answers, accurate and correct answers, and they're a BIG help (All mentioned have helped me immensely, I really appreciate that help).

All that said, I'll do my best to adhere to your rules, but I disagree with a couple as noted.

[Dan Hunt]

Some magazines are full of themselves???
Are there no mirrors in your house?
You are the only person on the site that told me he knew more than me, way more.Most of the others no more than I do also but the don't gloat about how smart they are.
I guess that shouldn't bother me because you have told most of the other members your much smarter than then also.
Dan

[bobs409]

Well Fran, looks like I'm learning a few things myself. It seems you have little respect for our site by what I've read.

The few rules I have put into place have been done for a reason and were thought out by yours truly. It's not really out for discussion, this is an announcement of our rules. Those that can't handle the rules can leave anytime.

The rules are here to help the site, it's members and myself. They will help keep the site running smoothly. They will help the members by giving them some feeling of protection from any jerk that wants to publically attack them. The rules will also give each member a nice place to hang out. As for myself, I don't like when I have to spend 3 days trying to smooth out the bumps because someone said something out of line. It's due to the latest troubles that the rules were put into effect. With the rules out in plain view, it will be real easy to deal with this in the future.

When I feel a post is "out of line" or breaking the rules, it will be edited or deleted with or without notice. If that offends anyone, sorry but if you follow the rules and use common sense, you'll never have to worry about it happening to you. Old posts that offer no useable searchable value for later on are also deleted. Birthday posts, "hey, I lost your e-mail" posts, old classified ads, old test posts, etc. Im the administrator, it's my job to do these things.

As for your replies; (1) Protecting vendors? It's more like protecting every member. There are no favoritisms from me, everyone gets the same treatment and the same rights. A vendor that happens to be a member here whether they have donated, not donated, participate or lurk, has the same rights as you or anyone else. The reason I don't want negative comments going on is things get out of hand, get ugly and then I have to spend 4 days trying to straighten the mess out. If somone wants to know how "Joe Schmoe's parts house" products are, they can simply ask on the forum and request to recieve private messages or e-mails on it. If that's not good enough, they shouldn't ask then I guess... (2) you've been crapped on because in 99% of the time, you've asked for it. You like to argue and you bring that on yourself. (3) don't like it, then leave (4) I don't care to get into what magazine is good or bad or what vendor is good or bad. That's just a pissing match that we can do without. With the vendor bashing policy, it covers that whole ugly package. Without that in place, we could have arguments all over and while you may like that sort of thing, I do not. (5) Not sure what this has to do with anything??? Sure there are members here that are way more knowledgable than others, we all value their input. Some of who you mentioned have been with us since about 1998 which is much longer than you Fran. Would you like everyone else to not post anymore? I personally like it when everyone joins in, that's the purpose of a forum. We all make mistakes, I have many times offered something only to be corrected. If I didn't say anything, I would never have learned from my mistakes. If members don't feel they are wanted here or that they can have a say, believe me, they will go elsewhere. We lose our members, we might as well close down because without them, this site is would greatly suffer.

When you start a website Fran, you can have whatever rules or no rules at all if you want to but here, these few rules apply. Check the rules on some other sites, then come back here and complain about our 3.


Now, that was 30 minutes of my time better spent elsewhere :rolleyes:

[jester]

Fran, I don't know how you get your head in the door at night . What a jerk. Why don't you sell off some of that ego and send yourself to charm school. Better yet, form your own site with members that are in your class. I'm thinking you might be lonely there since there are only five people that you would let join. This is the only sight has any interest is what you might have to say. Remember. it's the little people that make this site what it is or the five of you will be sitting around telling each other how much you know.
I'm sorry Bob but this pompous *** has pushed my buttons before and I have remained silent.. I can't anymore.
The two week suspension is a welcomed holiday from this mans condesension !

[MK IISS]

Fran: Sorry, but I can't support most of your post. As for myself, my knowledge is miniscule compared to just about everyone on this forum. I know a little historical stuff but that's about it. Come to think of it, I can't even take credit for much of my historical stuff. I just have some real good books and did have the advantage of working with my Uncle (Dealer).

[droptop62]

I have to say that I am very embarassed that I was involved in last weeks scuffle.
I am at a total loss of words, I have no Idea how to say what I want here while remaining tactful. I disagree with anyone here turning any dissagreement here into a personal attack on another member.
Last week I was disgusted at one members behavior, and I stepped in where I should not have, and then the other member whom I defended acted equally as horrible, and jumped right into the whole spirit of the playground fight and name calling.
Fran I defended the right to be a member here and participate without being bullied or attacked. You are way out of line in my opinion to think that you are such an incredibly valuable or important person around here. I think that many of the members and enthusiasts here even with less experience or knowledge can put their heads together and come up with the right answers. (yes even without you).
My apollogies to all members, for my participation in last weeks argument.

[Rockfish39]

Did I miss something???? :scratch: As usual, Im a day late and a dollar short.
Reading this thread brings to mind a quote from Henry Ford Sr.

" Listen to the common man, for he too has his own story"

C'mon.... Let's all be friends now!

:cool:

[JokersBel]

I read your post, Fran, and felt insulted as well. What is your requirement for inclusion as being a valuable member here? Age? Race-status? What is it? No offense, but it was a condescending comment.

Although I disagree about that comment, yes, it was JUST a comment, I agree with Fran about not "protecting vendors/sellers." I learned about 2 vendors here the hard way, after-the-fact, that others had bad experiences. Why protect those that are out to screw people? I say make it known if there are MULTIPLE bad experiences.

One last thing, I've said it before to Bob, that I appreciate your work here, and I do, but you, Bob have personally asked me in the past to keep disagreements private, and by keeping YOUR comments about EVERYONES behavior here, is a violation of your own rules. I learned a lot about you too by that, just like you learned something about Fran, (you made a "personal" feeling about him and made it public with your comments here.) Why do WE have to conform to the rules that you break?

Jim

[bobs409]

Because I'm setting the rules straight Jim. Tell me, what should I have done? If everyone would just get over themselves already an act like adults and follow the damn rules already, I wouldn't need to reply this way. Geez!!! :rolleyes:

As for the vendors, like I said before, if someone wants to find out about a seller, they may ask on the board but they should request the answers by private messaging or e-mail. That should keep everyone happy. (I hope anyway)

Sometimes those that enforce the rules have to break a few to get the job done. It's unlawful to speed but the cop that has to enforce the rules is allowed to get into a high speed pursuit the catch the criminal, right? Have I started a personal attack on Fran? No. My reply is in defense of the new rules, nothing personal about it so really don't feel that I broke any of my own rules.

[348NUT]

Good morning Bob :rolleyes: Just thought I'd put in my two cents, it may not be worth that much but oh well. I for one can't understand why some feel the need to argue with you about a few simple rules (whether they agree with them or not) :dunno I think they are good rules. I have heard bad mouthing about venders that I have had good service from and I have had bad service from those that are praised. If someone is considering placing an order and is concerned let him ask for private messages about the vender then make up his mind. That's a good idea Bob. :clap I for one appreciate what you do here!

Come on guys.... This is Bob's forum PERIOD He started it and he can pull the plug if he chooses. Remember no one is making you hang out here, he has to. I'm not speaking for Bob or trying to put words in his mouth, but I'm sure there are times he'd like to just unplug his computer and walk away, wouldn't anyone? He's started something here and now feels responsible to it's members. Can we try to make this whole thing seem worth it to him? Can we follow a few simple rules? I sure hope so! Aaron

[JokersBel]

I follow his rules. I don't cuss, I don't mention vendors names at Bobs request. But yet i have to keep reading threads that are hijacked for others personal attacks. Not only other members but attacks from Bob too. I REALLY tried keeping the "firewall markings" thread in context, but I had to keep reading Bobs explosions of "the rules." And then hear him complain about how much time he spent writing them. I just got sick of reading that thread-within-a-thread. Now he's complaining about a half-hour response, AGAIN. I've praised you before, Bob. Just in my very last thread, and others are all ready looking at making me out to be ungrateful. (Including you) but saying something GOOD here is like pissing your pants... you get a warm feeling inside, but no one notices.

Now, Bob, you cuss at me. (apparently the filter doesn't apply to you) and really, you have to lead by example. Any other way is hipocricy. If you can truly tell me you still feel you haven't broken any of your own rules, then DELETE MY ACCOUNT and remove a supporting member.

If I can't get you to listen to my praise about you, Bob, then the only way is the hard way. Lead by example.
By the way...a local officer was speeding to catch a purse snatcher last year, he hit a minivan on the way and the driver was propelled out the window and thown 20 feet to his death. ( he had children) The cop lived. Just a year earlier, amazingly at the same residential intersection, a cop was in high speed pursuit and to get away the criminal cut a corner ran over a jogger and killed him. NOW, you tell me if what a cop does is RIGHT or not. Think about it, is a purse ( or a vendor name here) worth losing a person over?

Jim

[dq409]

:doh ,,,,,,, :dunno ,,,,,,, :clap ,,,,,, :dunno ,,,,, :rofl ,,,,, :cry ,,,, :mad: ,,, :takethat ,,,, :cuss ,,,,, Thats all I can say

[droptop62]

Yeah I agree with you DQ, but you forgot to mention, :bang ,,,,, :confused: ,,,,,,, :evil ,,,,,, :eek: ,,,,, :deal ,,,,, :scratch

[fatride]

"I say" If you can't stand the rules or the rule maker, no one is forcing you to stay!And no I'm not trying to be a wise guy. Those are just the facts. I think we have something great here. Just post what you want! If you are a butt hole it won't take the rest of the members long to find out. (you know who you are, don't you?) There is a silent majority out here that I'll bet supports Bob and what he is trying to do. So far my vote is for Bob, and no I don't agree 100% with every thing he say's, but I agree with most of it. Anyway he started this site, works harder than I would and runs it the way he sees fit. I think a few poeple out there have a little trouble with "authority".

[walkerheaders]

(1) As one of the guilty parties on board, I must say, Bob.....you're a doing fine job and I thank you for having me here.

even when i told you to pull my plug, you did'nt.

you must have known i could'nt quit this place that easily.

Your rules are easy to live with.

Thanx Bob.

(2) as for being named above, thanx.......... but i don't think i can agree. the only thing i know for sure is that i dont know much of anything.

[bobs409]

Wow! What did I do to deserve this? Hey Jim, I set the rules here. Like it or not, that's the way it is. I am one person trying to keep close to 800 members happy. I think you have alot of balls coming to this website and ordering me around. Do you do that on other sites? If you want to leave us, you won't hear me stopping you. If you think I'm about to get into a pissing match with you, your very wrong. I'm a better person than that. Hah!

I'll leave your previous posts in place so others can see what your really like. And if your not happy here, don't let the door hit you on the A$$ on the way out. Your kind we can all do without.

In closing, GET HELP!

[bobs409]

Now, for the other 783 members here, Thank you! I appreciate the support and encouragment. Sometimes I do feel like kicking this computer through the window but I won't let a few troublemakers ruin a good thing.

It's not easy pleasing everyone, all the time. Some people think the rules should be changed to suit them I guess.

For those that question my decisions remember, for every 1 person that may not agree with my methods, there's a few hundred that do. I get private messages and e-mails from many that do appreciate my efforts but choose to not get involved in the ugly episodes. (and I don't blame them)

Well, I'm not going to let one or two bad apples spoil our forum. (that's exactly why the rules are there, so I can deal with those type. How ironic that it's the rules they don't seem to like?)

[JIMS409]

What Bob said (or) has been trying to say :clap The "rules" are simple and this forum won't survive without them...Thanks Bob! :hug

************************************************** **************

[CDNpontiac409guy]

By the way...a local officer was speeding to catch a purse snatcher last year, he hit a minivan on the way and the driver was propelled out the window and thown 20 feet to his death. ( he had children) The cop lived. Just a year earlier, amazingly at the same residential intersection, a cop was in high speed pursuit and to get away the criminal cut a corner ran over a jogger and killed him. NOW, you tell me if what a cop does is RIGHT or not.
Jim


Jim.. Bob... I don't mean to change the subject here ( hhmm :? ... maybe I do :dunno ... I don't like to see this going on between our members :( )
Most of us will make a post now and then, that may be considered "inappropriate" :doh
Example: Although my following statement is righteous and truthful, here is my "bad" post ;)

Jim ( JokersBel )...
MayGOD BLESS YOU for making the above statement :hug

Aubrey Bruneau

[JokersBel]

You never listen to the praise I gave you, Bob. The Happy Birthdays to other members. No, all you see is the crap that I HAVE to SAY for you to LISTEN to ME. No, I have never talked like this before on other forums. I only try to help when I can just like the "firewall thread" but I call it like I see it, You totally miss the point every time. I HAVE BROKEN NONE OF YOUR RULES. Yet you are inviting me to leave. WHY? I'm guessing your ego can't take opinions of a membership. You're human like everyone else here, it makes YOU no better than anyone else to be the administrator. Equality in membership. Anything else is a dictatorship. I have the same rights as you do in this beautiful free country of ours. Why can you continue to cuss and swear at me when i've NEVER done it to you? Keep up the good work though, but LEAD BY EXAMPLE, you need moderators to aid you in this site or else you are going to be overwhelmed because nothing is going to stop no matter what words of ruling you put in a thread.

You've previously defended a known con here and you expect us to like it? I've posted many good ideas only to be ignored by you in the past. And every time I praise your efforts, you still manage to ignore it. I don't appreciate a leader who defends a con and attacks a TRUTHFUL, praising member. Now, since apparently I have "BALLS" to call a hipocrite a hipocrite, then do you have the balls to delete my account here? I have no need for it any more.

[MK IISS]

"You've previously defended a known con here..."

Bob: JokersBel is making a good point here.

[bobs409]

"You've previously defended a known con here..."

Bob: JokersBel is making a good point here.


And that point would be???? What exactly is a known con on this site anyway?

[Fran Preve]

I read some of the replies after my post, and after some thought I decided of end this once and for all, frankly I don't need it. One last post.

Maybe I have a "big head" and an "attitude" because:
1) I worked at the plant that made ALL the big blocks for 32 years, so I have SOME idea of how they made these motors.
2) I had access to ALL the production records of that plant and am considered a (somewhat) of a historian from that plant. Some of those are preproduction records that document some of the history of the W. No one else has them. (MKIISS) and 425 have seen them. I know where the "truck" moniker began, and Ihave a good idea why it was perpetuated.
3) I have ALL the production records of ALL the big block production,BY SUFFIX CODE, if you want to bet where any ENGINE production numbers came from, guess me. These are by "model year, engines SHIPPED"!.

That said, I DID learn some new things from this site. Nickle and dime things?. As far as the W is concerned there is much lost to time, and memories fade when asking "old timers". There will ALWAYS be "guessing".

4) I'm 60 years old, I was 15 in 1960, if YOUR under 50 you haven't got a CLUE what went on back in the '60's, what it was like to LIVE it!. I was, I did. I bought the cars, I raced some in the mid 60's AT THE TRACK, as well as the street, I have some idea on how cars ran back then. And if your under 40 your going by someone elses "memories".
5) I bought EVERY "hot rod" magazine there was out there from 1960 to 1970, and to today. I read about the cars, all cars, and I didn't race Chevy's so I'm not biased towards Chevy. When I comment on Chevy's from back then I don't "rah, rah" Chevy when they don't deserve it. Boo hoo to all you who don't like it. I'm honest, not biased.
6) Speaking of those magazines, my collection starts in the mid '50's, goes solid in 1960, and I saved them ALL. My collection is one of the largest in the nation, bet me if you don't think so. That helps my knowledge base.

I lived it, and read about it, sorry if that upsets most of you. If anyone wanted to CORRECT me, that's was fine, just tell me YOUR "cred's". I WAS corrected, and learned some new things.

7) I had my hands ON a "mystery" motor, and a 409, and a Mark IV all at the same time. I restored as well I could the Chevrolet "mystery" display motor, the one they display. The ZL-1 motor in the Corvette museum was originally "MY" motor, sent to ME at the plant, and restored by ME, as a ZL-1 Camaro motor, because I didn't want one as a Corvette. Eventually it was re-dressed and sent to Bowling Green. I've compared a "mystery", a '09, and a MKIV by having them sitting next to one another, in pieces, side by side. At that time I personally talked to Chevy engineers from back then. That's helped me learn about it's history.
8) I know where the "mystery" came from, the 409. I know what it WASN'T, a MKIV, the only similarity is the head design. I've researched it.

I have the "cred's", know anyone else who has any like mine?. If so who?.

8) I gave seminars at the National Chevelle Owners Association, from 1987 to 1992. One of those was with Smokey Yunick, we were together for a week, I had a change to meet him "up close andn personal". I attended his auction in 1989, I saw what he had, and what it was worth.
9) I gave a seminar at the 1988 National Corvette Restorers Society (NCRS). I talked with Zora. I'm friends with Terry McManmon, a life time member of the Corvette Museum, he's the expert on LT-1 Corvettes 1970 to 1972.
10) I took him and Mark Meekin's on a tour of the Tonawanda plant the week before Mark IV production ended (and MK V began). They saw, and photographed, the machine floor and production line. They were the ONLY people who did that, and the last ones. Because I put it together.
11) I had a monthly column in All Chevy magazine thanks to a correction I wrote of their "History of the Big Block" article in the first issue. That ran for 2 years. There were two magazines back then, Super Chevy (edited by Doug Marion) and All Chevy (edited by Dan Sanchez). Marion never wanted me, he wanted it all for himself, Sanchez recognized my abilities and helped HIS readers.

So SOMONE recognized my writing, speaking abilities and paid me for it. But about 1993 I switched jobs at the plant, and dropped out of the "system". Now who out there has "cred's" like that?, anyone?.

12) I raced in 1965 & 66, and taught my first wife how to drive. Back then it was rare women raced. I raced off and on up to 1970 (we divorced in 1967). I dropped out of racing until 1988 when my second wife decided at age 40 SHE wanted to race!. I worked second shift and didn't go out much, set the car up, tuned it, she dialed and drove. In 1990 she went into the "points" system, that year she was runner-up in Street points for the season at our local track, in 1991 she won it, in 1992 she was 3rd later she changed to Heavy when I built her a 1984 Monte Carlo with a 454. It's a mild car, runs 11.50's at 117, but she can load it, tow it to the track, unload it, dial it, race it, load it back up and tow it home. I used to race the tow vehicle off and on, then picked up a 1985 Corvette that was set up as a bracket car by a friend of mine. Since I retired I'm finally able to race on a weekly basis.

I only say that because I'm a bracket racer, I've been into bracket racing heavily since 1990. When I comment on what a car will do, or does at the track it's from personal experience. When I answer a post on drag racing it's because I DO IT!. Do you?. How much?. What kind of car?. Aubrey don't answer, you da MAN!.

All of that is where my "big head" comes from, I've been ther and done that and don't suffer fools lightly. Is it bragging?. Or is it just telling you where I come from and what my "cred's" are?. Should I have NEVER have said where I get/got my knowledge comes from?. My mistake was I gave answers, then explanations, and where I got my info from. That makes me "big headed"?. If so, so be it. Those "comments" help explain my "attitude".

my "attitude" comes from:
1) Being bashed by "know-nothings or littles" telling ME they're right and I'm wrong. Sometimes I am, and I can take it, and I respect it when I am. But my knowledge covers more than one small area, where some have knowledge that's more focused on one small area. I THANK Richard, Phil, Aubrey and a couple of others for helping me.
2) I can't STAND people perpetuating a "myth", dispensing numbers that are wrong, and then pretending they're experts. It's frustrating. But then really, why should I care?. I actually attract animosity because I try to correct someone and they can't stand saying they were/are wrong. But hey, if it's wrong and someone reads it and thinks it's right they become (sometimes) experts based on false knowledge, then THEY pass it on and so it goes. But then like I say, so what, I should and will pretty much drop out again.
3) When someone "protects" a person, and/or seller, in effect covers up for someone, I lose respect. I'm thinking here where it was said you should be able to post when they buy something and it's not quite up to snuff (to politely put it). If a vendor is selling things that aren't what they're supposed to be why not be able to say it.
4) I don't hide, and don't respect those that do.
5) I don't (knowingly) LIE, and don't respect those that do.
6) I don't exaggerate. and don't respect those that do.
7) I don't CHEAT, and don't respect those that do.
8) I don't think I'm "holier than thou", and don't respect those that do.
9) I'm not a "jesus freak", and don't like those that are.

That just about covers it. If you don't like it, so?. I can see that I'm just not the person many expect of me, or want to hear from, or about. So ta ta, so long, I'm thin skinned, I have an attitude problem and I'm full of myself. But wht are YOUR "cred's"?. Skip it, those who want to keep in touch do so by private email.

PS: Bob, I have no desire to play god and run a web site, and/or play god.

[MK IISS]

"And that point would be"

Come on there Bob, you know exactly what JokersBel was talking about.

[bobs409]

You never listen to the praise I gave you, Bob. The Happy Birthdays to other members. No, all you see is the crap that I HAVE to SAY for you to LISTEN to ME. No, I have never talked like this before on other forums. I only try to help when I can just like the "firewall thread" but I call it like I see it, You totally miss the point every time. I HAVE BROKEN NONE OF YOUR RULES. Yet you are inviting me to leave. WHY? I'm guessing your ego can't take opinions of a membership. You're human like everyone else here, it makes YOU no better than anyone else to be the administrator. Equality in membership. Anything else is a dictatorship. I have the same rights as you do in this beautiful free country of ours. Why can you continue to cuss and swear at me when i've NEVER done it to you? Keep up the good work though, but LEAD BY EXAMPLE, you need moderators to aid you in this site or else you are going to be overwhelmed because nothing is going to stop no matter what words of ruling you put in a thread.

You've previously defended a known con here and you expect us to like it? I've posted many good ideas only to be ignored by you in the past. And every time I praise your efforts, you still manage to ignore it. I don't appreciate a leader who defends a con and attacks a TRUTHFUL, praising member. Now, since apparently I have "BALLS" to call a hipocrite a hipocrite, then do you have the balls to delete my account here? I have no need for it any more.


I probably shouldn't even reply to this but I will. I heard the praise you gave but what exactly do you want me to do? THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! Is that better? Offering birthday greeting or replying to posts doesn't get you any special treatment or allow you to be above the rules.

You never talked like this on other forums because you know they wouldn't put up with it. I'm not going to either.

Your posts today seem to be an attack on me personally. If that is the case, you are breaking a rule, it's the #1 rule. I've invited you to leave because you threatened to leave twice now, even asked me to delete your account! Nobody is going to beg you to stay with your negative attitude. Certainly not by me when you seem to have a bee in your bonnet for me. A tip: It's not good to have it in for the owner of a website and still expect respect from them. I've given you the same treatment as anyone else, your the only one complaining aren't you???

Where in the world did I cuss and swear at you anyway??????????????????????????????

Believe me, I have the BALLS to delete your account. I'm still taking that under consideration yet, probably later.


Bob

[JC327]

Has it occured to anybody that maybe Bob doesn't read "Chevytalk" and doesn't care to keep up with any soap opera that may be happening there? "Dictatorship" is way too strong a word, but it's Bob's house here and if he wanted us to, say, not use the letter "M" or if he insisted that every other word we type is "bunny", and we agreed to all of this when we registered, then those would be the house rules. His rules are very reasonable.

[bobs409]

PS: Bob, I have no desire to play god and run a web site, and/or play god.

This sounds like a personal, rude comment about me. Do you think I'm playing God now Fran??? Because I have 3 very simple rules (one or more of which you don't agree with) and because I am the one trying to enforce them, I'm the bad guy.

As per this comment:
3) When someone "protects" a person, and/or seller, in effect covers up for someone, I lose respect. I'm thinking here where it was said you should be able to post when they buy something and it's not quite up to snuff (to politely put it). If a vendor is selling things that aren't what they're supposed to be why not be able to say it.

The vendor bashing rule is in place to avoid all the ugly mess that comes from such type of posts. I'm the one that will get the letters from those vendors wondering why I'm allowing that sort of thing. I'm responsible for what is on this site, not you Fran. I'm not trying to help anyone cover anything up, I've had bad experiences with some vendors too but this isn't the place to do the mud slinging. You think everyone should be able to post whatever they want. Ok, that's what you think but it's not what I think and since I'm the one that built this website and spends alot of time keeping it going, I guess I get to call it, not you.

As for losing respect, I lost alot today too. The majority here do appreciate this site and what I do so the word of 2 members isn't going to affect us much.


Well, better get back to playing God now. :rolleyes:

[MK IISS]

Ok, Ok..... I'm sorry I opened my big mouth. Let's all stop it now. We all know the new 'house rules" and I'm sure everone will follow them. Can we get back to talking about Chevrolets now?

Actually I know nothing about Chevrolet 409s but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

[JC327]

How 'bout opening a poll thread:

Which statement sums up your opinion of the rules here:

a) I want a free-wheeling 348-409.com where anything goes! Wheeeeeeeeeee

b) Bob's rules are fair

c) Bob's rules are unfair

d) Bob is a power-hungry lunatic who spends all his spare time setting up this forum and dealing with all this just so he can lord over a bunch of gearheads to pacify his true desire to rule the world with an iron grip!

(sorry, just trying to inject some humor here)

[bobs409]

No, I don't go to CT but now that Chevytalk has been mentioned, I'd like anyone to go over there and tell Tony Schaffer to change his website rules. In fact, go over there and get a copy of his house rules and post them here so we can compare.

I tried to get a copy of the forum rules of sites I like to go to. A Buick site I go to seems to be having technical difficulties right now so I was unable to get them from there. I couldn't find the rules on Team Chevelle but they are there somewhere. I do know for a fact that they have a no vendor bashing policy that is strictly enforced, it's one of their #1 rules. Go tell Al McKenzie to change his vendor bashing rule, see where you end up.

Here is a list of forum rules I was able to get from a poplar truck forum I go to. None of the members on that forum ever complain about any of these rules and that forum is very well run and friendly. In fact, in all the years I've been going to it, I don't recall seeing any attacks or any of the nonsense we seem to have here lately:

=================
The following are the rules and guidelines for 67-72Chevytrucks.com Discussion Forums. Ignorance of the Rules and Guidelines is no Excuse!!!

67-72Chevytrucks.com is intended as a home for ALL 67-72Chevy and GMC enthusiasts. ALL civil, productive and positive discussions are encouraged. Anything not meeting these objectives will be stopped. This website, and any bulletin board forums will not be used as leverage against a site sponsor, company represented on the site, Administrator or Moderator. Keep your personal problems and dealings with the above said off 67-72Chevytrucks.com. Any threads or posts meeting these standards will be moved off the site.

CONDUCT GUIDELINES & ACCEPTABLE USE POLICY

I. To post or transmit hate speech, harassing content, threats of violence against another member written in a serious manner or joking with a hint of innuendo will lead from a 24 hour suspension or immediate suspension off the web site at the Administrators discretion
II. To post or transmit material in violation of copyright laws is a no-no.
III. No pissing matches. Its fine to disagree, but once a thread has run its course, and degenerated into little more than an insult fest, it will be locked. While this will require a judgment call by the Administrators & Moderators. The members of this site can keep our moderating to a minimum by exercising a little discretion and self- control. Excessive profanity will lead to a 24 hour suspension at the Administrations discretion.
IV. Pure trolling, either to upset someone or simply for your personal
enjoyment, is strictly prohibited. If you're here to cause trouble, it will be a very short stay. Immediate BAN and you will be reported to your ISP.
V. Posting or transmitting commercial or bulk e-mail through use of this bulletin board network will lead to a permanent ban off 67-72chevytrucks.com.
VI. To post here or transmit off-topic and/or link to websites; in regards to selling merchandise (such as but not limited to t-shirts, hats, bumper stickers, key chains, coins, etc.) that may represent any current and/or future marketable interest of 67-72Chevytrucks.com by way of capitalizing on our
platform thru our members without the prior written permission or approval of 67-72chevytrucks.com is not authorized, and is prohibited.
VII. No Spamming or Advertising on ANY 67-72Chevytrucks.com forum, regards to any product(s) your pushing, unless you are a paid advertiser, or have had the administrators approval! This guideline is for all Companies and Individuals, using our site to advertise their site of choice or trying to make money off the members!
VIII. No inappropriate pictures. No nudity will be permitted. If you have to think about posting a picture anywhere else on this Discussion Forum then it's a good bet you should not post it. To post or transmit content that is legally obscene or that violates child pornography statutes; that contains graphic depictions of sexual acts, or visual depictions of sexually explicit conduct involving children; or that contains depictions of children, the primary appeal of which is prurient.
IX. Fraudulent practices or attempts to defraud another will lead to account suspension and banning. This is in direct reference to items offered for sale, trade, or leading someone on as a buyer.
I will turn you in! This also applies to people posting fabricated lies about another user or business. If you have a real issue, discuss it off the site, but don't make up lies because you're upset with someone. 67-72Chevytrucks.com will not put up with this kind of slander.
X. To engage in illegal, unlawful, or tortuous or other conduct that interferes with the 67-72Chevytrucks.com ability to provide service and/or interferes with the rights of others, is strictly prohibited. Such conduct includes, but is not limited to: libel, invasion of privacy, consumer fraud, unauthorized dissemination of trade secrets, violation of trademark laws, hacking, or transmittal of commercially restricted information. You will be turned in and dealt with accordingly.
XI. All For Sale posts shall have a price or prices, as well as your
location. No bids or auctions allowed here!!! If you don't know the
price of what you are selling, then you should do some research. If a Moderator or Administrator here asks you to post price(s) and you have not within a 12 hour time frame, they will delete your thread, period.
XII. It is against our policy for someone to post a complaint about a members price on whatever they are selling. If you don't like the price then skip it. Let it drop to the bottom on its own. They (potential buyers) will figure it out, why nobody is jumping on that particular item.
XIII. If you are a long time member, act like one. Lead by example and assist other newer members rather then attacking them. We look upon our veteran members to use this opportunity to teach the newer members the appropriate message board usage.
XIV. Multiple Posting - It is simply not acceptable to post your question more than once, or to post it in more than one forum. Choose the forum that your question or post best fits in, and place it there and only there. If, after posting, you feel it should be in another forum, private message the forum Moderator and ask if they would move it for you.
XV. No posts meant strictly to drive your post count up, or otherwise abuse server resources. If you make a post to drive your post count up, two times the number of posts made to increase your post count will be removed from your count.
XVI. No Dummy Accounts register using only one user name. Creating multiple user accounts or flooding the board will be considered a denial-of-service attack on the forums and will result in your being banned from the forum and reported to your ISP.
XVII. Name changes… there are very few instances that warrant a user name change. If you need to change your name contact and Administrator and tell them you are changing your user name. Register the new name and an Administrator will delete your old account. If you do not notify an Administrator of the new account, it will be assumed to be a dummy account and dealt with as stated previously.

* Any of these violations will lead to your account being suspended for 24 hours or more at the discretion of an Administrator the first time. Any future violations will lead to a permanent suspension of your membership. By becoming a member you agree to adhere to these guidelines. These guidelines are subject to change without notice and a current version is always available in each forum.

** 67-72chevytrucks.com reserves the right to use any posted materials in future projects, such as but not limited to tech articles, photo galleries, calendars or newsletters.

*** In addition, members should be aware that in keeping with federal and state law, 67-72Chevytrucks.com, in response to court order or specified legal process or certain kinds of emergency governmental requests, may turn over other information such as the content of e-mail, posts or PM's. 67-72chevytrucks.com also reserves the right to reveal your identity (or whatever information we know about you) in the event of a complaint or legal action arising from any message posted by you. Please note that unrelated advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, and solicitations are inappropriate and will be removed. ***

==================

What you see above is a well thought out set of rules that the owner of that site has put into place. It seems to cover just about everything. Nobody argues with him about the rules. Now I ask, is our 3 rules that bad? Am I a dictator or playing God now?

[bobs409]

How 'bout opening a poll thread:

Which statement sums up your opinion of the rules here:

a) I want a free-wheeling 348-409.com where anything goes! Wheeeeeeeeeee

b) Bob's rules are fair

c) Bob's rules are unfair

d) Bob is a power-hungry lunatic who spends all his spare time setting up this forum and dealing with all this just so he can lord over a bunch of gearheads to pacify his true desire to rule the world with an iron grip!

(sorry, just trying to inject some humor here)


Hee hee. :D You left some things out on the first one. Choice A should also include; I want a free-wheeling 348-409.com where anything goes! Wheeeeeeeeeee I don't mind if I post and someone publically attacks me or provokes a fight with me. And I don't mind that the site owner will do nothing to help me if such does happen.


Choice D- Yes, I live to rule with an Iron fist. It's my reason to wake up so I can come to 348-409.com and push my weight around. I'm thinking of starting other forums/websites so I can spread my evil further. My goal is to one day have World domination!!! :love

[fatride]

What in the world could a man of average intelligence say to a person like Fran that would say what he has just done to himself! Fran, may you and your documents find peace. :cry

[jester]

What in the world could a man of average intelligence say to a person like Fran that would say what he has just done to himself! Fran, may you and your documents find peace. :cry
in a word " AMEN!"

[dq409]

I* have a rule that would work for all of us !! :doh

RULE #4 : Any thread that gets out of hand will be LOCKED by the administrator.


This would help stop threads like this one to continue on and on and gain momentum and pickup so much speed that it becomes a monster of its own !!

I think this is the worst HOT thread that this site has seen !! :cry

There is fighting going on in this thread between "W" brothers that has brought out the worst in several of us.

The time is now to stop in our tracks and delete this complete thread and forget it ever happened !! :help

PEACE BROTHERS !!! ,,, :hug

[droptop62]

Is there a full Moon, because I have never seen so much chaos here before now.
The Rules, .......I think the rules here are very fair.
Bob does a great job. Let's not give him any grief, he doesn't deserve it.

[348NUT]

Maybe I have a "big head" and an "attitude"

I DID learn some new things from this site. Nickle and dime things?.

I have the "cred's", know anyone else who has any like mine?. If so who?.

8) I don't think I'm "holier than thou", and don't respect those that do.

Fran, These are just observations and comments. I hope they don't appear hatefull or attacking.
You are right, I'm 34 and you have much more authority to speak of things that happened in the 60s, although there are hundreds here your age. It seems to me that you didn't come here to learn anything, but you thought you already knew more than all of us and could share your vast knowledge and experiences with us. I think it surprised and upset you when we seemed ungratefull and unwilling to accept all this information you were trying to give freely. I think it was just the way you came across, whether or not you are trying to bragg or act like a know it all, you come across this way. I appreciate the information I've learned from you. It would be helpful to a lot of people. In reality most of the people who could use this info and would appreciate it are members here. Most of the world could care less about W engines or drag racing or anything else you know, that's just a fact.

It would be great if everyone would just follow the rules here and stay on, but if they can't or won't I'd like them to leave. Bob is upset, he has the right to be, Yes he's talking strongly, but it's because he's the boss and there are some here that don't seem to recognize him as that. Just because you send him some money, doesn't mean you own this site. In any organization you must have someone in charge, beit a family, a business, or whatever, it won't work otherwise. He's more than willing to listen to suggestions for this site but he decides how it is run, No matter who is or isn't right here, Bob is not the one who should back down.

Only one more thing, Fran I'm sorry to hear you don't like Jesus Freaks, I guess you don't like me. :) I truly wish you the best if you leave here or stay. If we were all the same what fun would that be? I came here almost three years ago to learn more about a strange engine I've always liked and to make some new friends that shared the same interests as me; Ive suceeded on both accounts and have even shook the hands of several of those friends. I don't plan on leaving anytime soon. Thank you for the oportunity Bob, I've enjoyed the ride! Aaron the 348NUT

[BobsBB]

it really doesent matter how much "you" know...it really doesent...i'm setting here in front of my old computer (whitch takes more time to warm up than you car) reading " the rules ", i have a 409 in my garage i've been trying to re-build for the past 6 years...i dont have a lot of $$$, i use netzero "free" internet service (10hr. a month) what im getting at is i find this site so very help-full, and all the members, supporting or not.....We all have a common thread here, the MIGHTY 348/409...just share your experance...enjoy it...forget about "I KNOW MORE THAN YOU"...just go back to the first time you fired up that 348/409.......and that ooh so good feeling, and give some pointers to us people who are soo close to doing the same... who cares what you what you know, how you got there, the most important thing is shareing that moment :cool:

[nomadci]

WOW!!!! I am probably 4 weeks from hearing the sound of a 409 I am building for the very first time. I could not have gotten this far with out all the help you all have so willingly and unselfishly given to me. To me this is what 348-409.com is all about....so to all of you I just want to say THANK YOU!

[JC327]

Hey, where'd that thread about the hacked adult website go, no rules were being broken!!! :rofl :rofl :rofl :clap

[63z11]

Bob, just wanted to take a minute and say I was glad to see you take a stand on the new rules. I love the site and have always thought you go out of your way to help the members. Dont get me wrong, I dont want to stir up the pot here, I missed this whole thing, but comments like there are only a few people here who know anything?Come on, that one statement is more ignorant than anything else I have ever read here. Most everyone here has something to add and should be able to without being jumped on or made to feel stupid. I myself have entered in an argument or two but mostly to defend others or dispute a total lie. This site has helped me to find many cool parts and alot of good advice. To get into who is smarter than who is about as mature as my dad can beat up your dad! All that from someone twice my age. :rofl P.S. I have met some of our more quiet member in person and the "Creds" they have were much more impressive than a stack of old papers or an early eighties bracket car! :doh oops there I go again.

[bjburnout]

Hey Bob

Thank you for all your hard work and endless devotion to this site.
It would never have happened without your efforts. :clap

I have learned a lot from everyone here and appreciate the help that has always come forward when asked.
Occassionally I'm able to help and will join in any thread in a positive way. :)

Keep up the great work Bob and don't get down when there are a few bumps along the way.
This site is worth everything you and the group have put into it to make it grow and will survive.

I don't recall any negative comments at the National Convention, that's gotta tell you something.
We are a bunch of 'W' gearheads dedicated to the preservation and performance of the 348-409. :D

Let's concentrate on what we love 'W' 'W' and more 'W' :love
Summer's comin'......and as NOMADCI says he's about 4 weeks away from starting his 409 well all I have to say is ....let's here those red lines singin' :love

BJ :cheers

[bobs409]

Thanks for all the kind words guys. :cheers

[SSpev]

This thread is an example of one of the reasons I haven't been here sence Dec. 28. :cry :(

[petepedlar]

Thanks Bob for the great site. I don't know any of you from Adam, but there's a lot of good information & experience here . Everyone has the right to their own opinion about anything....... If you don't like what someones ideas are about an engine or anything else why argue........ just walk on by ..........

The rules are pretty straight forward.... you can sum them up in two words that your mother taught you......... BE POLITE.......

Bob keep up the good work !! The rest of us don't need to take our guns to town !!!

Dave

PS........ my 409's in the garage