Waterpump problems

[CarlK60]

Hey guys, I had my waterpump for my 348 rebuilt (thats a long story in itself, only took over 2 months to finally have a rebuilt pump). But my problem is my crank pulley doesnt line up with the waterpump pulley. I had to shim the crank pulley out quite a good ways, If I had a double groove crank pulley I could probly use the outer groove. Has anyone had problems like this with a rebuilt water pump? And now the problem gets worse, I just installed my new alternator brackets from Show Cars, and the alternator pulley is WAY off :doh , not to mention that the alt sits crooked. I think Ill be able to get the alt to sit straight (with a little cutting and welding), but the belt will still have to move back to get to the pulley. Thanks guys for any :help I sure would appreciate it!!!

CK

[Mr.Jimmy]

Carl,

You may want to call Jody. Atleast he's close that you can drive to his shop to phycially look at a set up and compare the parts with yours side by side.

He has a few rebuilt waterpumps that you can take measurements from too.

Hope this helps.

[gearhead409]

did you get the same pump back from the rebuilder that you sent them? sounds like they sent you a big bearing pump used on 64-65 409s. the later pumps are about 1/4-3/8" longer.

[348NUT]

I reused the pump that was on my engine, It was a car pump, but when I put the pulleys on, the water pump pulley was way out like you said. I compared it to another pump I had and found the flange was out further on the shaft for some reason? Of course this is after paint and new gaskets :mad: I ended up rebuilding the pump myself and checking all mesurements before puting it on. If this is what your problem turns out to be, The shop that did the work should fix it, but otherwise the back plate needs to come off and the back of the shaft put against someting solid before trying to press the flange on further! We can get you the stock height if you don't have another pump to measure. NUT

[CarlK60]

Hey guys, sorry for not replying sooner, been kinda busy. I did get the same waterpump back that I sent, still dated 59, so it aint for a 409. My problem sounds like NUTs problem. Mine is also painted and installed, will I have any problems if I just leave it? I can leave the crank pulley shimmed and I have a 2 groove alt pulley that I can use, so I should be able to get the belt lined up OK. What do you think?

Later, CK

[johnnyrod]

My pump was the same so all we did was press the flange on a bit further. Hope this helps, John.

[Impalaguru]

I bought a reproduction alt. bracket from show cars for my old car and I had to like up the "F" shaped bracket to where it SHOULD be and then I welded it in place. If I would have bolted it on where the holes were, nothing would have lined up.
Ross

[Dond409]

I fabricated my own from a piece of 5 x 5 aluminum angle. there wasn't much left of it when it was done, but everything lines up perfect. I have never thrown a belt even up to 6800. The local track wants me to install one of those bolts that keeps the belt from coming off, but I keep resisting. They hate that. I can post a picture if you like. Let me know

[Tom Kochtanek]

I have a ShowCars set of brackets and things are off a bit, but I'm pretty sure I can solve all that with some twekaing and perhaps a bit of fabrication :).

When you've got nothing to start with (no brackets, pulleys, etc.) it really becomes a fun puzzle! Same goes for the clutch linkage and set up :). Probably be working on both tonight if I can get out of the house.

Best,
TomK

[CarlK60]

Hey guys, I pulled the water pump off and I also pulled the one off my complete '59 car engine and compared them. The non-rebuilt one is a 3755797, 59-60 car pump and it measured 5 1/2 inches from block surface to pulley surface. When I was looking at the rebuilt pump, it has a different #, which here is what I found here on Bobs site.... "1959 3757244 Truck 8 & 10 series without bypass tube". :doh It looks exactly like the car pump, exept beefier. The "neck" Ill call it, is longer and bigger round. I never even knew they made a truck waterpump this style!! :dunno I thought the only truck waterpumps were the tall bulky style. This one measured 5 13/16 from block to pulley. It also has the bypass tube, which it said it shouldnt. Has anyone had any experience with one of these??? Is the pulley in the right place since its not a car pump? Can I use it as is? Any help would be appreciated.

Impalaguru and Tom, is your problem with the alt bracket that the back bolt to hold on the F shaped bracket is too low which turns the alt a little bit. (turns the alt pulley so its pointing towards the engine) I figure on cutting off the rear nut and welding it in a different spot, maybe even elongating the hole a bit.

Later, CK

[348NUT]

I have one of those water pumps. On mine the bolt patern on the pulley flange is bigger. I think Aubrey said he has modified these pumps for use on cars. I think the shaft is bigger so you can't just change the flange. If you have the right pulley and fan to fit your pump then you could just take the back cover off your pump and use a vice or press to push the flange further on to whatever height you need. I used the truck mounting bracket for the alternator. Then bolted a small block type alternator bracket to it and used a adjusting arm off a smalll block. I added in a piece to the arm to get it the right lentgh for what I needed, but it works great. I cut off the tail of the truck bracket that bolted to the head bolt cause the light alternator doesn't need that much reinforcing. Good luck NUT

p.s. Just remember it is the overcoming of such problems that make the final results more satisfying! :)

[CarlK60]

Hey Nut, my pump alredy had a flange with the correct bolt pattern. I first tried pressing it on further with the vice.....bad idea, I ended up pushing the impeller on too tight, so then I went to our body shop and used the vice, I first flipped it upside down and pushed the shaft back through a little bit to get the impeller to spin good. (I really hope I didnt screw anything up by doing this, it seems to be working just fine) Then I pressed the pulley flange on as far as it would go. I was only able to eliminate 1 of 3 washers behind the crank pulley, but it is closer now. (were you able to press it on far enough to be at stock car specs?) I was able to get the alt lined up fairly good with a little reworking of the brackets, although the alt seems to tip down a bit in front, hopefully it doesnt wear the belt too bad. I was going to use the truck alt brackets, but for some reason they wouldnt fit worth a crap. Though I probly coulda made it work and save myself $150 on brackets that also didnt fit. :doh

P.S. this engine swap better be pretty damn satisfying then, cause Ive had WAY too many problems to overcome.

Later, CK

[JimKwiatkowski]

Here's a Quote I copied from a post that Phil Reed wrote,he said that his rebuilder told him the Inpeller is a critical measurment :dunno

The pumps are taken apart and while the body is being shot-peened, the front of the impeller is machined smooth. The factory style of sealing was an "interference fit" (for lack of better term on my part) between the back of the water pump housing and the front of the impeller. Obviously, with time, both become grooved with wear. Then the pump body is machined. The impeller is re-sized for a new, better sealing bearing. Plus, the shaft is .002-.003" oversize. That way the flange is still tight after it is re-installed. That just eliminates another potentional problem with the flange. The dimension on the back side of the impeller to the steel backing plate is critical too. If the impeller is too far back...you will not have proper water flow thru the pump. Too far forward..and you won't have any flow at all.

[348NUT]

Sorry Carl! It sounds like you are following the exact path I did :( But mine was a used pump so by the time I was done messing around The seal leaked! I don't think you will have this problem and I doubt that you hurt anything. Mine was a car pump so I was able to get the flange where it needed to be. As far as the impeller clearance being critical, i'm sure it affects the performance of the pump some, but if you get it so it turns without hitting the pump body or back cover it will work fine for a daily driver. Mine did. The belts can run fairly out of line without much effect on wear, but of course it would be better to get everything lined up as close as you can. I realize you are not building a show car or drag racer, so some of this stuff is just not as critical. Don't lose any sleep over it, and yes like I said it WILL be worth it after you drive it awhile and get the bugs worked out. ;) NUT

[348NUT]

As far as the impeller clearance being critical, i'm sure it affects the performance of the pump some, but if you get it so it turns without hitting the pump body or back cover it will work fine for a daily driver. Mine did.

I was just reading this again and wanted to make it's clear that this is what worked for me, I'd hate for you to put it back on your car and have it not pump right. The reason I gave this advice was that I think I know the situation you are in and you are thinking like me. I wouldn't want to put any more money in it and would take the chance on it. If you want to know it's right, then buy a rebuilt car waterpump from Phil and KNOW for sure. Good Luck! NUT :)

[JimKwiatkowski]

Carl,I think you will be ok,but I would remove your rad cap and start your engine and look in your rad and see if your coolant has circulation.