409 turbo fire?

[doc396]

i have always wondered why a 409 was called a turbo fire instead of turbo thrust or turbo ??????. it seems to me it would be more like a 348 type engine than a small block? i came across this sight and thought someone here would know. thanks, dennis

[tripowerguy]

GM has loved the word Turbo for a long time. Turbo Hydro, Turbo Thrust and Turbo Fire. I think it is just a GM thing. ;) Roy

[Fran Preve]

Tripower has it right. The "Thrust" line was only 348, as in Turbo Thrust, Turbo Thrust Special (signified tri power). The new 327 and 409 pushed Turbo Fire, then the MK IV ushered in the Turbo Jet. Just a name.

[OldTruckNut]

Sort of like the truck engines. The 60-62 truck engines had names like ThriftMaster, WorkMaster and TradeMaster, then around 63 they started using the High-Torque names like High-Torque 230, High-Torque 409, etc.

[bobs409]

Great thread. :clap I think this is the perfect time for us to make a list of all these engines and names. If we get a decent list, I can put it on the main site somewhere.

I've always wondered what name went with what powerplant.

Everyone, list all the ones you know lets say 1955-70 and we'll weed through them. :help :brow

[JimKwiatkowski]

How about Blue Flame for 6 cylinder engines?

[JimKwiatkowski]

59-61 HI-THRIFT 6 and 63 6 Cly 230 ci Turbo-Thrift :D

[ROYALOAK62]

Here's a list from (STANDARD CATALOG V-8 ENGINES 1906-2002 ,by John Gunnell.
Only Chevrolet car on this list.

1955 Standard 265 cid (2 barrel) "TURBO-FIRE" (code G,GC,GF,GG,GJ,GK,F or FC)
1955 Optional 265 cid (4 barrel) "TURBO-FIRE" (code GD,GE,GL or GM)

1956 Standard 265 cid (2 barrel) std. trans, "TURBO-FIRE" (code G,GC,GQ,GF,GL and GK)
1956 Standard 265 cid (2 barrel) powerglide, "TURBO-FIRE" (code GL,F,FC or FD)
1956 Optional 265 cid (4 barrel dual exhausts) "TURBO-FIRE 205" (code GE,GM,GN or FB
1956 Optional 265 cid (dual 4 barrel dual exhausts) "TURBO-FIRE 225" (code GR and FG

1957 Standard 265 cid (2 barrel) std trans or "touchdown" overdrive "TURBO-FIRE" (code C,CD or CE)
1957 Standard 283 cid (2 barrel) powerglide "TURBO-FIRE 283" (code C,CD,CB,F,D,FA,G or E)
1957 Optional 283 cid (4 barrel dual exhausts) "TURBO-FIRE" (code ?????)
1957 Optional 283 cid (dual 4 barrel dual exhausts) (code EA,FD,GD,EH,CT,FG or DG)
1957 Optional 283 cid (fuel injected dual exhausts) "RAM-JET FUEL INJECTED" (code EJ,CH,FJ,DP,GF,EC,CY,EM,CR,FK or DH)
1957 Optional 283 cid (special cam) (dual 4 barrel dual exhausts) "SUPER TURBO-FIRE" (code RB or EG)
1957 Optional 283 cid (fuel injected special 1 horsepower per cid) "SUPER RAM-JET FUEL INJECTED" (code EK,CJ,CZ or EL)

1958 Standard 283 cid (2 barrel) "TURBO-FIRE" (code C,CD,CB,F,D,FA,G or E)
1958 Optional 283 cid (4 barrel dual exhausts) "SUPER TURBO-FIRE 283" (code CM,DM,EB,CQ,CG,DM,EJ or DG)
1958 Optional 348 cid (4 barrel dual exhausts 9.50 to 1 comp) "TURBO-FIRE 348" (code G or H)
1958 Optional 283 cid (fuel injected dual exhausts) "283 FUEL INJECTED" (code CR )
1958 Optional 283 cid (fuel injected) "RAM-JET FUEL INJECTED" (code EJ,CH,FJ,DP,GF,EC,CY,EM,CR,FK or DH)
1958 Optional 348 cid (3-2 barrel dual exhausts) "SUPER TURBO-TRUST" (code FA,GB or HA)
1958 Optional 283 cid (fuel injected solid lifter std trans 11.50 to 1 comp) "SPECIAL SOLID LIFTER RAM-JET FUEL INJECTED" (code EK,CJ,CZ or CS)
1958 Optional 348 cid (4 barrel dual exhausts 11.00 to 1 comp) "SUPER TURBO-THRUST" (code FD)
1958 Optional 348 cid (3-2 barrel 11.00 to 1 comp) "SUPER TURBO-THRUST" (code FB)

Must stop for now but will follow up on this list to 1965, as 1965 was the last year for the 409.

Dave

[Fran Preve]

Targetmaster engines in 80's/90's

The standard 348 = Turbo Thrust

With tri power = Super Turbo thrust

With solid lifters = Turbo Thrust Special

With tir power and solids = Super Turbo Thrust Special

Correct me if I'm wrong but after 1962 all 409's were Turbo-Fire, at least that's what the valve cover stickers read.

All Mark IV's Turbo-Jet.

[bobs409]

We're getting there! Special thanks to Dave (ROYALOAK62) for typing that very long list! :cheers Looking forward to seeing the rest when you have time Dave.

Can we confirm on the 6 cylinder ones? Blue flame, hi thrift, etc. 1958-65 is most important but would be happy to have the list cover 55-70.


Bob

[ROYALOAK62]

Here's a list from (STANDARD CATALOG V-8 ENGINES 1906-2002 ,by John Gunnell.
Only Chevrolet car on this list.

1955 Standard 265 cid (2 barrel) "TURBO-FIRE" (code G,GC,GF,GG,GJ,GK,F or FC)
1955 Optional 265 cid (4 barrel) "TURBO-FIRE" (code GD,GE,GL or GM)

1956 Standard 265 cid (2 barrel) std. trans, "TURBO-FIRE" (code G,GC,GQ,GF,GL and GK)
1956 Standard 265 cid (2 barrel) powerglide, "TURBO-FIRE" (code GL,F,FC or FD)
1956 Optional 265 cid (4 barrel dual exhausts) "TURBO-FIRE 205" (code GE,GM,GN or FB
1956 Optional 265 cid (dual 4 barrel dual exhausts) "TURBO-FIRE 225" (code GR and FG

1957 Standard 265 cid (2 barrel) std trans or "touchdown" overdrive "TURBO-FIRE" (code C,CD or CE)
1957 Standard 283 cid (2 barrel) powerglide "TURBO-FIRE 283" (code C,CD,CB,F,D,FA,G or E)
1957 Optional 283 cid (4 barrel dual exhausts) "TURBO-FIRE" (code ?????)
1957 Optional 283 cid (dual 4 barrel dual exhausts) (code EA,FD,GD,EH,CT,FG or DG)
1957 Optional 283 cid (fuel injected dual exhausts) "RAM-JET FUEL INJECTED" (code EJ,CH,FJ,DP,GF,EC,CY,EM,CR,FK or DH)
1957 Optional 283 cid (special cam) (dual 4 barrel dual exhausts) "SUPER TURBO-FIRE" (code RB or EG)
1957 Optional 283 cid (fuel injected special 1 horsepower per cid) "SUPER RAM-JET FUEL INJECTED" (code EK,CJ,CZ or EL)

1958 Standard 283 cid (2 barrel) "TURBO-FIRE" (code C,CD,CB,F,D,FA,G or E)
1958 Optional 283 cid (4 barrel dual exhausts) "SUPER TURBO-FIRE 283" (code CM,DM,EB,CQ,CG,DM,EJ or DG)
1958 Optional 348 cid (4 barrel dual exhausts 9.50 to 1 comp) "TURBO-FIRE 348" (code G or H)
1958 Optional 283 cid (fuel injected dual exhausts) "283 FUEL INJECTED" (code CR )
1958 Optional 283 cid (fuel injected) "RAM-JET FUEL INJECTED" (code EJ,CH,FJ,DP,GF,EC,CY,EM,CR,FK or DH)
1958 Optional 348 cid (3-2 barrel dual exhausts) "SUPER TURBO-TRUST" (code FA,GB or HA)
1958 Optional 283 cid (fuel injected solid lifter std trans 11.50 to 1 comp) "SPECIAL SOLID LIFTER RAM-JET FUEL INJECTED" (code EK,CJ,CZ or CS)
1958 Optional 348 cid (4 barrel dual exhausts 11.00 to 1 comp) "SUPER TURBO-THRUST" (code FD)
1958 Optional 348 cid (3-2 barrel 11.00 to 1 comp) "SUPER TURBO-THRUST" (code FB)

Must stop for now but will follow up on this list to 1965, as 1965 was the last year for the 409.

Dave

Hope this works for the other years.

1959 Base 283 cid (2 barrel 8.50 to 1 comp) (NO NAME IN BOOK) (code C,CD,CQ or D)
1959 Optional 283 cid (2-4 barrel dual exhausts 9.50 to 1 comp) "TURBO-FIRE" (code CT,CU or DJ)
1959 Optional 348 cid (4 barrel dual exhausts 9.50 to 1 comp) "TURBO-THRUST" (code F,G, or H)
1959 Optional 283 cid (fuel injected dual exhausts 9.50 to 1 comp) "CORVETTE RAM-JET FUEL-INJECTED" (code CR or DH)
1959 Optional 348 cid (3-2 barrel dual exhausts 9.50 to 1 comp) "SUPER TURBO-THRUST" (code FA, GB,or HA)
1959 Optional 283 cid (fuel injected dual exhausts 10.50 to 1 comp) "SPECIAL CORVETTE RAM-JET FUEL-INJECTED" (code CS)
1959 Optional 348 cid (4 barrel dual exhausts solid lifter 11.00 to 1 comp) "SPECIAL SUPER TURBO-THRUST" (code GD)
1959 Optional 348 cid (3-2 barrel dual exhausts solid lifter 11.00 to 1 comp) "SPECIAL TURBO-THRUST" (code FA)

There is three other 348 cid "SPECIAL TURBO-THRUST" with 11.25 to 1 comp and solid lifters.
1-4 barrel dual exhausts (320 hp) (code FD)
3-2 barrels dual exhausts (335 hp) (code FB)
3-2 barrels dual exhausts (350 hp) (code unknown)

1960 Base 283 cid V8 (std trans) (2 barrel 8.50 to 1 comp) " TURBO-FIRE" (code C,CD,CL,D,DK,E or EG)
1960 Optional 283 cid (4 barrel dual exhausts 9.50 to 1 comp) "SUPER TURBO-FIRE" (code CF,CG,CM,DB,DM,EB or EJ)
1960 Optional 348 cid (4 barrel dual exhausts 9.50 to 1 comp) (250hp) "TURBO-THRUST" (code F,G or H)
1960 Optional 348 cid (3-2 barrel dual exhausts 9.50 to 1 comp) (280hp) "SUPER TURBO-THRUST" (code FA,GB or HA)

There is two different 348 cid "SPECIAL TURBO-THRUST" with 11.00 comp and solid lifters
1-4 barrel dual exhausts (305 hp) (code GD)
1-4 barrel dual exhausts (320 hp) (code FG)

And three different 348 cid "SPECIAL SUPER TURBO-THRUST" with 11.25 to 1 comp and solid lifters
3-2 barrel dual exhausts (335hp at 5800 rpm) (code FE)
1-4 barrel dual exhausts (340hp at 5800 rpm) (code FJ)
3-2 barrel dual exhausts (350hp at 6000 rpm) (code FH)

In 1961 the 283 cid used "TURBO-FIRE" for the 170 hp 2 barrel (code C, CD,CL,D,DK,E or EG) and "SUPER TURBO-FIRE" for the 230 hp 4 barrel 283 cid (code CF,CG,CM,DB,DM,EB or EJ)

For the 348 cid used "TURBO-THRUST" for all (not sure if the horsepower rating was used the book dose not show it)
9.50 to 1 comp hydraulic lifters
1-4 barrel 250hp at 4400 rpm (code F,GE or H)
3-2 barrel 280hp at 4800 rpm (code FA or HA)
1-4 barrel 305hp at 5200 rpm (code FL or GD) (sales code RPO 572)

11.25 to 1 comp solid lifters
1-4 barrel 340hp at 5800 rpm (code FJ) (sales code RPO 590)
3-2 barrel 350hp at 6000 rpm (code FH) (sales code RPO 573B)

For the 409 (Impala SS only)
1-4 barrel 360hp at 5800 rpm (code Q or QA) (sales code RPO 580)

The book dose not show from that point now. I'm sure Fran's correct for 1962 on as my 1962 has two different stickers one shows "TURBO-FIRE" the other HP rating.

Bob,
I can only show engine codes, using comp/rpm/caruretor/lifter. If you need the other years.

Dave

[Mr.Jimmy]

Depends on what valve cover stickers that one is reading...heheee I have a pile of NOS ones that were made up of the wrong names and horsepower ratings. Something too cool that never got thrown away!!!! There's even some 64? 240hp Corvair ones with the 65 script on them. I have some odd ball W ones too....but never looked that hard into them. I just looked into the box for the first time in a few years today....

Neat
Old
Stuff

[JimKwiatkowski]

Bob,I got this 6 cly info from Classic Chevy catalog,these are the valve cover decals they offer.

55 Blue Flame 123 hp
56-58 Blue Flame 140 hp
59-61 High Thrift
62 ???????
63 Turbo Thrift 230 hp
64 ???????
65 Turbo Thrift 250 hp

[doc396]

well i found something interesting in the 1962 passenger car shop manual. page 8-2 states "two 327 c.i. engines named turbo-thrust (rpo300) and super turbo-thrust (rpo397) are offered for 1962". page 8-3 states "two 409 c.i. will be named turbo-torque and super turbo-torque". i know they print these shop manuals early as to be avalible when the cars come out and the names could have been dropped/changed. also the picture of the 327 engine clearly reads "chevrolet 327 turbo-fire" on valve cover decal. just a tidbit i thought was neat. dennis

[Fran Preve]

Astonishingly, he's right. I just sold a 1961 shop manual and 1962 supplement to impalaguru and had them on my coffee table. The print date on the 62 sup was 1961, typically this is September or October. Obviously they had tossed around the use of different names. Curiously the 327 sticker was actually a raised emblem on some models. The sticker pictured in the manual is the sticker they used.

PS: good catch Dennis

[Eric Vrem]

It is my understanding that the Turbo---- used in Chevrolet V8 engine sales names for all years of passenger cars and Corvettes was applied as follows:

TurboFire: All small block V8s
TurboThrust: All 348s and 409s
TurboJet: All big blocks (rat motors)

Eric V.

[CDNpontiac409guy]

In a 63-65 Canadian Pontiac, the 409 is called a "Super Flame". I'll check tomorrow, but I believe the 58-61 348 was called an "Astro Flame".

[bobs409]

Oh sure, complicate this some more Aubrey! :D

Actually, I'd be happy to include any Canadian engines to the list if you can give me the info. What's a few more? :p

I was working on this chart yesterday and it's confusing! I've been cross referencing the info provided in this thread against all the shop manuals I have collected so far. (58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63 and 64! Hopefully I'll have '65 very soon too)

I don't think anyone will ever remember all of these engines by name but it will be interesting to look at the chart when it's done.

[doc396]

just thought of another question. was the 427 Z11 also called a turbo-fire or was it untiltled? i noticed fender emblem on the Z11 facts page appears to be the same as a 327? which is interesting because when i was a kid, there was a guy who went to my friends church (bobby zare) who had a 63 impala with those emblems but the engine looked like a 409. he told us then that it was a 427. being only 9 or 10 years old we had never heard of a 427, we thought he was pulling our leg. i wonder what ever happened to that car? dennis

[JimKwiatkowski]

Dennis,since you live in Ohio I though you might be interested in this Show,we have 14 members attending. :dunno Check out this link.

http://www.gonorwalk.com/bluesuede.html

[doc396]

thanks, i have heard of that cruise. i have been to super chevy at the speedway but not the blue suade cruise. i think that weekend is the same as the local lancaster old car club show (ohio) which i like to attend each year. thats for the heads up though. dennis :beerbang

[fatride]

Doc, I was born in Athens Oh and have been to the Lancaster show with my 60 Impala. My Bro lives in New Marshfield Oh. Where are you from??

[doc396]

i live near lithopolis ohio, its about 10 miles southeast of the columbus I-270 outerbelt. did you go to the show last june? i had my 65 L/78 bel air at the show on sunday. dennis

[fatride]

Dennis, I haven't been to that show in 3 years, been your way plenty! Sometimes we take Rt. 33 out of Columbus into Athens.

[doc396]

i'll keep my i open for that 60! i have something you might remember if you grew up in athens, 1967 king midget. it's all stock. dennis

[Fran Preve]

From what I've read and seen the Z-11 didn't have any emblems from the factory.

The Z-11 had special valve covers because of the pushrod guide plates and angle of the surface where the valve covers bolted on. The original ones I've seen were painted silver (no not the greenish tinged) and photo's of the engines from back in the day didn't have any stickers (of course).

You remember something someone told you back when you were 9 or 10?. That's SOME memory!.

[doc396]

it was a fairly new car then maybe a year old. it had a sound like no other and left a BIG impression on me. i guess i never got over the big car-big engine mark it left on me. i have forgotten a lot of other things though! dennis

[fatride]

I sure do remember the Midget. Saw a few parked in downtown Athens when I was a kid, funny I didn't see more of them. I don't think they sold well in Athens! I've seen a few at some of the bigger car shows, pretty rare huh? I can remember them advertised in Popular Mechanics Mag.

[doc396]

From what I've read and seen the Z-11 didn't have any emblems from the factory.

The Z-11 had special valve covers because of the pushrod guide plates and angle of the surface where the valve covers bolted on. The original ones I've seen were painted silver (no not the greenish tinged) and photo's of the engines from back in the day didn't have any stickers (of course).

You remember something someone told you back when you were 9 or 10?. That's SOME memory!.
THE WHITE 63 IMPALA ON THE Z-11 FACTS PAGE MUST BE A RESTORATION PICTURE? IT SHOWS WHAT LOOKS LIKE 327 EMBLEMS TO ME? I DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT THESE CARS EXCEIPT WHAT I HAVE READ? DENNIS

[SS425HP]

The Z-11 cars had the crossed flags, only, a sign that indicated the 327 back then. There was no markings to signify the Z-11 or 427 motor.

Fred

[SteveD409]

Definitly not an expert, but what I've seen and read is that the Z11 had 327 emblems. Sticks in my mind because I thought that it was wierd; why 327 emblems?! :dunno

[64ss409]

Here is one of Don Fezell's from the convention.
Ron

[bobs409]

I'm surprised they used any. Weight issues ya know! :D