348-409 dist.

[smithd7]

Does anyone know if there is anybody that offers a electronic dist.for a 348 or 409 complete,not just a conversion?
Thanks.

[dq409]

Whats wrong with a conversion? If you have a dist to convert IgnitionMan is who you need to contact. did mine nad what a difference !!!
If you don`t find one and have him do it. You won`t be sorry,,,dq
This is a picture of a Pontiac dist he did. Can`t find the "W" one but same diff,,,,,,MSD trigger (pictured ) or small body HEI

[mad max]

SHOW CARS HAS A HEI DROP IN AND A MSD DROP IN DIST. FOR 409'S. :p

[smithd7]

Originally posted by mad max
SHOW CARS HAS A HEI DROP IN AND A MSD DROP IN DIST. FOR 409'S. :p

Thanks guys I'll give them a try.

:D :D

[IgnitionMan]

Their HEI is a large cap, large diameter one, their MSD needs a box. I use a small block dist and make it fit the W engines, small cap HEI or MSD trigger only, but, alas, they are just lowly conversions.

[29Coupe348]

ignitionman, i put thr prtronix in my dist., how much would you charger me to convert it?

[dq409]

Hey 29,,,i think you missed spelled Pooptronix`s ,,heeee heee

Igmans the way to go,,,,, also just a lowly conversion dist in my engine !!! LOL Best dist I`ve ever used !!!,,,dq

[John]

Where do you get the Ignitionman convertion. Please and thank you. John

[dq409]

HERE YA GO !!! http://www.davessmallbodyheis.com/

Maybe Bob could add this to the links page,,,dq

[mad max]

Thanks dq. Real good information:cheers

[bubbletop61]

Hi guys. I've been reading your post on the conversions. I am certainly not an Ignition expert ( or anything else for that matter)
and wouls therefore ask what the benefits are of going with
a conversion or an MSD set up vs. the factory dual point. Is it a hotter spark, better precision in timing, reliability or durability of the set-up, etc.???
Ciao
BBTP 61

[CDNpontiac409guy]

I'm at the edge of my seat;)

[dq409]

Bubble,,,All the above !!,,dq

[tripowerguy]

I can tell that CPG has just swallowed a fist full of Rolaids wanting to jump on Bubbletops questions. Somehow I feel that we have been down this road before. Let the blood letting begin.;) Roy

[bubbletop61]

I had the feeling when I posted the question, and then the great OZ put the ball on the tee....I'vr been waiting for the thunder...
BBTP61

[IgnitionMan]

First, understanding of dual points is needed, to form any opinion on them.

Way back when the earth was still cooling, engines had been fitted with a Kettering ignition system, Kettering being the person whom did two significant automotive breakthroughs. He figured out how to make enamel paints cure in a reeasonable time, not the months they cured in, allowing manufacturers to paint with lesser expensive and more durable enamels over laquer paints.

The other thing he did was found, then lose The Dayton Electric Company, Dayton, Ohio. This company evolved into a GM company, D-EL-CO. Delco.

Now, when Kettering designed the first battery/coil systems, he used only one set of points, and only one saturation level (dwell), and only 6 volts, not the most earth shaking ignition systems, but better than coil box magnetos on Model T stuff of that era.

Along comes some high performance electrical guru's working for Kettering at Delco, in the early twenties, and they figure out how to add another set of points, phased offset from the first (mostly 8 degrees offset), to allow the coil to saturate a bit more electricity, and make just a touch more spark energy. Next thing you know, Delco is making dists for GM and Auburn, Cord, Deusengerg, wtc, dual points, stock. This has lasted through the years, even into the 12 volt era we are now in.

In a 6 volt system, figure a 300 plug volts increase over trhe stock of 3,500 plug volts, 12 volts, 800 or so more over their 7,000 volts. But, remember, back in those days of the dual point being THE ignition to have, there were NO electronic ignitions available aftermarket or OEM, so that is what everybody used. Since then, the reasons/history of dual point distributors has been altered, blown way out of proportion as to their real worth, and lots of other falacies and myths about them invented/given, etc.

I see lots of Mallory dual point dists with 8 lobe cams come in to get converted with one set of points matchstick or cardboard spacers to stop one set of points open, or one set just plain not there, with "I hate these blankety-blank points".

Also being developed at the same time, by the same Delco engineers, was a systgem with dual points, and a 4 lobe cam, points offset 45 degrees. This was to spread the load between two sets of points and increase the physical dwell time on the 4 lobe points cam. Worked a bit better as far as voltage, but the dist had to be set on a machine, not easy in-car, as both sets of points had to be dead on on the dwell, and the second set phased correctly in the dist to get all 8 cylinders to fire evenly. Mallory did this later on with the Rev-Pol dists. Nothing earth shattering, but another 350 plug volts in a 6 volt system when done right, much more maintenance as well.

Points in themselves, have been making engines run, and well, for many, many years, but now, there are better, less maintenance, more accurate, reilable, somewhat elevated performance level electronic systems to be had. Mostly, electroninc ignition systems give consistant, repeatable performance, without the operational degradation/changes of points.

Of course, there are those systems highly touted to give space shuttle performance while painting your house, mowing the lawn and bar-b-que'ing for you all at the same time, and have vast magazine and TV overadvertizing. So much for that. I recommend only two ignition types, HEI, capacitor discharge MSD, Crane Digital.

OK, next combatant.

[CDNpontiac409guy]

Fascinating, Ignitionman:cool: ... no s*** !

I still see a gap ( no pun intended )....
How would an electronic system work if it were plagued with the limited capacities of those prehistoric coils ?
I would think that the huge advancements in spark voltage, and the consistancy of it, is largely due to the technological delopements with ignition coils.... to the point ( again, no pun intended:p ) that today's fine ignition systems are the product of MAYBE 20% electronic, and 80% that of the improvements in ignition coils.

So far.... I've heard "less maintenance":deal .... but noby's going faster yet.
I anticipate a FLURRY of sparks ( once again, no pun intended:p ) NOW !:D

[IgnitionMan]

Points type systems, no matter the coil design, will only make enough spark plug voltage to bridge the plug gaps, no more, no matter the turns ratio in the coil, peroid.

Now, with some electronic systems, the "drop-ins" (PerTronix, Unilite, Comp-U-Fire, Crane XR1, M&H, etc.), they function the exact same as a point, make the same plug voltage levels as a brand new set of points, the first spark they make, but they just don't degrade performance between "tune-up" intervals like points do.

Systems like an HEI electronically alter the dwell, use full battery voltage, and that, in conjunction with a high output coil, make for a much higher spark level at the plug, and allow for increased plug gaps.

MSD, Crane capacitor discharge systems use a completely different system, they charge a capacitor with the spark primary input, then feed it to the de-energized coil for a higher level spark output, instead of having a dwell time to saturate the coil with electricity and drop to ground, making a spark.

Don't believe all the over-hype advertizing about high performance coils and what is claimed they will do with a points system, they simply will not make a lot more voltage over a good stock coil because there are no drivers in the points system to make the dwell time change for higher saturation to a level seen by an HEI, and will still only make enough voltage to bridge a reasonably small gap against even the lowest compression resistance.

The only coil I have ever seen make a slightly better spark ouotright with a points system is the square Accel Super-Coil. EVERY test I have seen with this coil working in a point system shows it makes a whopping 350 more volts to the plugs over all other coils. Hold me back, whatta gain.