Nothing to say??????? [Archive] - 348-409.com Info Exchange

droptop62

04-17-2005, 11:41 PM

I just can't believe how many of you guys lurk around here and never have nothing to say.
You look and read, and hang out but never start a new topic or joke around on any of the funnier threads. Some of you guys only pipe up if you think it is important enough to argue to prove you know something.
Lets get some chatter going on out here, getting tired of not seeing any new posts except on occaision lately. where is DQ when you need him? He would get things going.
Speak up, life is too short to not join the party. :stooges

bobs409

04-18-2005, 08:08 AM

JimKwiatkowski

04-18-2005, 09:32 AM

Things sure have settled down since DQ doesn't join us regularly anymore. Even Aubrey isn't around much.

I had noticed last year that discussion dropped during the summer months so I guess everyone is working on their rides. Judging by how busy I've been the last week, I can see why. The weather has been absolutely perfect around here. 70's yesterday!
Bob,your right about the weather,who wants to be in the house on the computer on nice weekend.I was on line all weekend and there was nobody on line,I have my computer in the garage so I can work on my car,watch TV and be on line.
Droptop,I know what you mean,I look at a profile and there's members that have been on this site over a year with 0 posts.What's wrong don't these members have any questions :dunno

RPO587

04-18-2005, 09:46 AM

droptop62

04-18-2005, 10:01 AM

Hey guys,
I'm happy to chime in. As you can see, I'm a newbie. I guess I do have a lot of questions to ask, but figured I might do some of that at Norwalk. Looking forward to meeting everyone there and seeing the cars. Since I don't have a 348-409 car (at least not yet), I've been content to lurk and gather info. Stopped-by the chatroom the other night for a while too. This site is a lot of fun for someone like me.

WELCOME RPO587,
Jump in and ask away, or start a thread anytime you want. It doesn't have to be serious discussion, it can be light chat, or whatever, we are happy to see your post.

RPO587

04-18-2005, 10:16 AM

droptop,
Thanks. You, JimK and a few others have really made me feel at home here. Looking forward to lots of chatting, info exchange, storytelling, lie swapping, and just plain fun!

L@@king for 62 Impala Convertible

Me too! I'll take mine in Roman Red and 409/409 4-speed if you please!

Ronnie Russell

04-18-2005, 11:07 AM

Jim Kwi ,, It sounds like you should give seminar on how to set up a garage. How does that work? Take spark plug out- click mouse - re-install spark plug- click mouse. Some people have it made. Since I havent been around very long, could you mention trans. rear-end combo in your 57? Are you gonna race at Norwalk or just show her off?

JimKwiatkowski

04-18-2005, 11:21 AM

Ron,I have a Turb 400 and a 12 bolt rear with ladder bar suspenion.I'm not racing the 409 because it's my last one and the short block is 42 years old.About 6 years ago I lost my 481cu to drag racing :doh

gearhead409

04-18-2005, 11:49 AM

what happened to your 481? i'am building another one now and am always intrested in any inherent problems with these long stroke applicatoins.

JimKwiatkowski

04-18-2005, 12:09 PM

I had a old crank were they drilled holes in the counter weights and welded a Mallory weight in the holes to balance the crank,the mallory cam loose and destroyed the short block :doh I think they did this type of balanceing in the 60's :dunno

RPO587

04-18-2005, 05:27 PM

Bob,
I'll be joining in from time to time. Maybe I'll even be able to contribute something useful! Good to see another 10-11 guy out there. It's a great day no matter what the year. Regarding Olds engines, I took no offense at your comments in the chatroom. In fact, I really don't know why those engines were so popular in boats. The BBO (in 455 form) is a relatively low-revver with a weak bottom end. Not as good as the BBC, but certainly better than anything Ford blue!
Mark Groves
RPO587

Ronnie Russell

04-18-2005, 05:41 PM

Jim. My first stroker suffered the same problem as yours except my Mallory went through the oil pan on the first pass down the drag strip. The balancer said he just made poor welds. In his defense, he made good on the expense. Did it right the second time. Must have done well because we made two full trouble free seasons with it and now beginning third.

JimKwiatkowski

04-18-2005, 05:46 PM

Ron,mine went out the sibe of the block even took the roller cam out :doh You were sure lucky :)

Ronnie Russell

04-18-2005, 06:06 PM

Yep, didnt touch a thing except pan. The pan looked like a machine gun had shot it. Some might wonder,,,,,, why use the same balance guy? He felt as bad as I did and shelled out about $1,000 for his mistake.

gearhead409

04-19-2005, 12:17 AM

thanks Jim. i'am using a bone stock gm crank in this one, not sure how i'am going to balance it. thanks again.

JimKwiatkowski

04-19-2005, 12:32 AM

gearhead,you still have to get the clank balanced with mallory weight.They have inproved on installing mallory weights,so be sure you ask about this when crank made :) As you can see Ronnie Russell had the same problem as me :doh but he was lucky the weight went through the pan.

tmracing62

04-19-2005, 02:04 AM

Agreed that Mallory metal installation has become more dependable, but not all shops take it seriously enough. An insert gets thrown, a rod snaps and windows the block or the crank and whatever else frags the pan. I've not had this problem, but know people that have. Really impress your builder with your concerns and if they are offhand about it, politely take it somewhere else.

Ronnie - Hang on to that crankshaft guy. Buy him a six pack. Or two. He's a rare one.

Ronnie Russell

04-19-2005, 02:14 AM

It is rare to find a machinist that will admit a mistake and take responsabilty. But ,alas, this particular guy left my part of the country a year later. The guy I used for the engine Im assembling now has good reputation. Time will tell.

gearhead409

04-19-2005, 02:51 AM

jim, the last crank i had balanced with heavy metal was done by midwest balancing in columbus, ohio. they bored the holes parallel to the main and rod journals. it was done in 1985 and is still in my tee bucket today.i don't remember how much it cost but it wasn't cheap.

jim_ss409

04-20-2005, 08:19 AM

I could be wrong about this but I'm pretty sure my 4" stroker crank doesn't have any mallory metal in it. :scratch It did require the use of a standard 454 style, ballanced flywheel and a standard 6 3/4" ballanced harmonic ballancer from a 400ci small block. I got the rotating assembly from Curt Harvey. http://www.mr409.com/index.html

JimKwiatkowski

04-20-2005, 09:37 AM

Jim,that sure would be nice if you had no weight.Let's pull your pan off and check it out at Norwalk :rofl Did you get your 12 Bolt installed yet?

gearhead409

04-20-2005, 09:55 AM

the only reason to use heavy metal on the 4" stroke crank is that it is a little easier on the #1 and #5 main bearings at high RPM's but i'am not sure it's worth the extra money. oh well, i'am way past budget on on this thing any way. what's a few extra dollars!

walkerheaders

04-20-2005, 10:42 AM

i'm wondering if maybe only the "made" stroker cranks need the heavy metal?
i'm referring to a welded stroker from the old days, or some other sort of custom crank.
I have a 4inch chevy LS7 454 crank in my race motor. (tufftrided, cross drilled etc...) it is externally balanced and has a fluidamper and .250 long Childs / Albert aluminum rods, lightweight 14-1/2 wiesco pistons and tool steel pins. after the dyno flogging (906 HP) and 2 years worth of 8600 rpm runs in a dragboat........i was convinced the bearings had to be trashed. now, even though i didnt see any evidence in the system 1 filter, i yanked all the bearings. they were so sweet, i put them in my spare engine.
Could you guys be using heavy metal because the 409 pistons etc... are so heavy? or are they old school cranks?
the balance man told me "some are fillers and some are drillers" lucky i needed to lose crank weight so i had it lightened, knifedged etc...
i've always used a 10 quart full kickout pan, (even on my new 63 impala the engine is in now) it has a .740 and .760 lift roller with 360 lbs on seat and almost 900 lbs open valvespring pressure. fully ported and flowed (by me then checked) brodix aluminum heads with 2.3 and 1.9 stainless valves stud girdle, tunnel ram with 2 1185 cfm dominators, MSD7 and the throttle response is unbelievable. curious to see how it will react to being in a heavy 10-1/2 tire car.

JimKwiatkowski

04-20-2005, 10:58 AM

Bob,I think your right about the 409 pistons,your taking out a heavy pistons and putting in lite pistons,so you have to add weight :dunno

Ronnie Russell

04-20-2005, 11:05 AM

Bob, Im confused. I am interested in hearing your progress and parts used in your 409 stroker, however I get confused when you talk about your BB race motor. As far as balancing 454 crank for 409, I guess machinists are different in their techniqes. My cranks are late model GM shafts. The way I hear it , is the heavy metal makes it easier on the machinist to acchieve best results. Had one tell me he might be able to balance without heavy metal but he would firs have to spin shaft first to see. The first job was disaster, second job, drilled horizontally. No problems. Third - different machinist- drilled vertically, but guaranteed welds to hold. Hope so. If .740-.760 cam is for 409 what springs, pushrod lenght etc? What brand cam did you use?

walkerheaders

04-20-2005, 11:21 AM

sorry for the confusion pal. i think it started on chatnight.
it is confusing, i have 3 63 impalas, one is a 409-425.......actually 421 inch W powered ex-racecar.
i either refer to it as the 09car or the red car.

i am currently building a new 63 dragcar that is a replica of Sox & Martins "friendly chevrolet" Z11. however, it is powered by a BBC left over from my dragboat days. i usually refer to it as the white car, new car or race car.

so, i dont have currently have a stroker W engine. all i can do is invite you to see my picture gallery. it will clear up some things you may heard me say.

gearhead409

04-20-2005, 02:38 PM

i'am using the very same crank you are using in your BB but i'am using wisco pistons that weigh 780 grams before i start cutting on them, steel eagle rods, bb alum fluidamper and a 30# weber flywheel natural balanced, i will need some weight on the crank.

Tom Kochtanek

04-20-2005, 05:11 PM

I converted a 427 BBC crank over to 409 specs, and boy she looked just great out of the lathe, with those smoothly turned counterweights :).

Then we balanced the assembly and did the "drill and fill" with Mallory (that stuff is like "unobtanium" in its pricing :)). It didn't look so pretty after that, but the only thing looking up at it is the oil pan :).

Somewhere I have pictures of the beauty before and after Mallory inserts...

Best,
TomK

jim_ss409

04-20-2005, 06:06 PM

Jim, I've finally got a day off so the 12 bolt goes in tomorrow! :beerbang

My Ross 10.5 to 1 pistons, .040 over ranged from 675 to 679 grams. That's pretty light I think. The original TRW's were over 1,000 grams. Aparently Ross stroker pistons are lighter than their standard stroke models.

"i've always used a 10 quart full kickout pan, (even on my new 63 impala the engine is in now)"
Bob,That sounds like a good plan. When I first got my engine together I noticed the slightest ticking sound when I turned it over by hand. The stroker crank was just touching the pan so I had to pull it off and give it a few hits with a big rubber hammer. It cleared okay then but not by much so the crank will always be spinning through any oil that's there, not good for a performance engine. I was lucky I caught it while it was still on the engine stand. If I were doing it again I'd get a Steffs pan or modify a truck pan for more clearance. There's room at the crossmember to go at least 1/2" lower.

jim_ss409

04-21-2005, 02:04 AM

I got the old rear end out tonight and should get the 12 bolt installed tomorow. I got Winston to give me a hand. :D

fatride

04-21-2005, 08:32 AM

Is there going to be a prize for the slowest ( 60 Chevy ) at norwalk?? :help

JimKwiatkowski

04-21-2005, 09:04 AM

Jim,it looks like Winston is a good superviser,is he also your crew chief in the pits :D .It looks like that Panhard bar is going to be a tight fit :dunno .Ray we will come up with some kind of prize :D

SS425HP

04-21-2005, 09:17 AM

I got the old rear end out tonight and should get the 12 bolt installed tomorow. I got Winston to give me a hand. :D

Jim, where did you buy your 12 bolt rear end? Looks like what I have been trying to get, but no one wants to weld the upper arms on the cast part of the rear end. So, give it up. Where or who did this??????????????

Fred

JimKwiatkowski

04-21-2005, 09:29 AM

Fred,I can help you out,Jim posted this in another thread.
http://www.drivetrainspecialists.com/index.html

jim_ss409

04-21-2005, 10:42 AM

Fred, as Jim said I got it from DTS. They're in the Detroit area. The brackets for the upper control arms are welded to the cast centre section. I don't know why this should be a problem for other companies to do because they all must fully weld the axle tubes in. I got this one last fall as soon as I got back from the convention. They must do a few of these things because they already had specs for placement of the brackets, including the extra upper one. It looks like the distance from the axle centre line to the u-joint is about the same so I'm hoping I won't have to alter the driveshaft. I don't think the girdle syle rear cover is going to clear the panhard bar though. I might be able to space the panhard bracket out. I'll find out today. Anyway, if I was doing it again I'd stick with the stock rear cover.

dq409

04-21-2005, 02:12 PM

THERE YOU GUYS GO AGAIN !!! A guy starts a thread and you hijack it with several off subject babble !!! You wonder why I don`t hang out here any more? :dunno

OK,,,,,, Just kidding :rofl

SS425HP

04-21-2005, 04:27 PM

Well, look who's lurking in the side. Were your ears burning? We have talked about you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But, I won't tell what we were saying.

Fred

Good to see you are back for a minute.

bjburnout

04-21-2005, 11:19 PM

Hey Jim

I guess that title didn't sound so good...... :rolleyes: .... :rofl

Jim, I sent you an email today about buying the rear end out of your 62.

Does anyone here know if there are any problems fitting a 62 rear axle
housing into a 63 Belair? :dunno

BJ

gearhead409

04-22-2005, 12:02 AM

nope, should bolt right in, you might want to keep your 63 self adjusting brakes though.

jim_ss409

04-22-2005, 01:29 AM

BJ I'll send you a PM.
I got the new rear end in place today, just the brake lines left to hook up. As expected we had trouble with the girdle style rear cover, it wouldn't clear the panhard bar. We had to pull it off and machine it down. Since we don't have a milling machine we had to use an electric plane and a table saw. It worked fine but if I were doing it again I'd just stick with the stock rear cover. The bearing caps look plenty strong.