MKII-MKIV history

[Fran Preve]

For those of you who remember some talking about this, pick up this months Hot Rod magazine and go to the letters column, then the long one by Bill Howell.

[MK IISS]

I just read Mr. Howell's letter In the BENCH RACING section of the August issue of HOT ROD magazine, pg. 22.

This is what Mr. Howell said: "The sequence of engines sizes prototyped were: MkII409ci, MkII 427........"

This is what I said Mr. Howell said in my other post......the post where I said the MkII started out as a 409.....the post that caused all the fuss.

"I had MkIIs running originally as 409s....."

Makes me wonder what all the fuss was about....makes me wonder why I even bother to get into this historical stuff.

[Fran Preve]

Except he never spoke of a MK Is or MK IIs. What he said was, quote " The sequence of engine sizes proto-typed were: MKII 409ci, MKII 427ci, MK II 396ci, MKIV 396ci and MKIV 427 ci. The 454 followed along about 1968".

I showed you the records I have that should the MKIV "went in a different direction" in February of 1964 and the 396 version was introduced (along with a 427).

A 409 MKII engine could have been built using a 409 crank, a 396 version of the MK II would have required a new block casting with a much smaller bore (it couldn't have been built using off the shelf parts).

And the 454 didn't follow along about 1968, it was 1970. No matter, I'm trying to get in contact will Billy now, maybe I can get a sit down with him and get a COMPLETE story. Time will tell........................................he may remember me, he was one of my contacts when I was on the history project for the plant.

[MK IISS]

I don't understand what the big mystery is about the Mark/Mk stuff. I'm certainly not the brightest bulb down the hall but even I can figure it out. If I can, anyone can...well almost anyone.

Did we loose some threads in this section?

[Fran Preve]

Richard, Richard, guess who just emailed me asking me how he can help me?. Maybe we'll ALL soon see who was right (all along). I understand it, but then I have documents to back ME up.

[MK IISS]

"We'll all soon see who was right.."

right about what?

Oh I have no doubt what so ever, Mr Howell will be reported to back up every one of your claims. It's a sure thing.

[JIMS409]

Richard, please don't take the bait..NOBODY But NOBODY knows more than the good Docktor Fran Torbeck, especially us "Jerkoffs!" :bow

[Fran Preve]

Richard contact Fred or me offsite.

[MK IISS]

Fred ? You talkin' about Flyin' Fred aka Rocketman? I can't email..computer screwed up, got hit by lighting. It's a mess. I had an appointment with one of those "geek" persons but he never showed up. Guess it's time to buy a new cpu. We may be in for another rough summer in FL. Hurricane Dennis is going to pass by out in the Gulf in a few days. I live on the west coast about a mile off the water.

[MK IISS]

Thanks Jim, for the warning. I'm aware the Docktor has a plan to rewrite history...will do anything, claim anything, make up anything, just to prove he is right. Or maybe I should have said left....extreme left.

[Fran Preve]

guarenteed you won't read it here. at least i base my statements on documents and things that are written, richard bases his on memories. but then when i lay the documents on the table in front of him he still won't change his "open" mind. he's right i'm wrong that's it end of conversation.

jimmy, your not a player, now nor never.

[JIMS409]

"jimmy, your not a player, now nor never."

Mr. Preve, the reason I chimned in is because I have finally had it with your (huge) ego and bovine feces spreading-causing more trouble on this board than (trust me on this) a lot of us can handle anymore. :doh

AND BTW, I may not be a "player" but I do own an '09! Where's yours? ;)

Just two last words (you can understand) "Franny" because I'm not gonna' play your little headgames: "OH...PIFFLE!" :evil

Good day! :cool:

[MK IISS]

Fran Preve...you are a liar. You stated all my information is based on memories. This is not true and you know it so...again, you are a LIAR !

I posted the thread about the MkII that started all the problems...where I stated the MkII began as a 409ci engine and from the get-go quoted two Chevrolet engineers, Dick Keinath and Bill Howell, to back up what I said. I even gave the reference book and ISBN # so any member of this forum could look it up for themselves. So this is not from memory...so you are a liar.

On this thread we had a discussion, which I believe you started (this time), about the 1962 Ford Starlift top. You indicated it didn't exist so I listed a website that had a photo and story line about the top so everyone could determine for themselves I was telling the truth. So again you are a liar.

I also listed quotes from Dick Keinath about the MkI label on all W engines and his statement about the MK II being refered to as a MK IIS for a short period of time during it's development.

None of this was from my memory so again...YOU ARE A LIAR.

By the way, your so called documents are nothing but, in many cases, hand written papers by you, and some typed...no Chevrolet letter head and no signitures by GM engineers, etc. These are not documents...proof of anything.

You know, I tried to overlook your foul mouth and your white trash origins and be friends with you. I'm glad and relieved it didn't work out.

[Quickshift409]

Such anger on the site, Turn loose the Dogs of war. Must be something in the water.
QS409

[bowtieollie]

Nope not in the water..... its just Fran being Fran......

I bet when he was in high school - he was the guy always getting beat up..... :rofl

[MK IISS]

I apologize to everyone for going off like I did and using the word "liar". Pretty strong word. I should have said "not telling the truth".

[09pwrd55]

Richard there is absolutly no need to apologize for telling the truth. I would like to thank you for voiceing your opinion. and i,m pretty sure it,s not one you hold alone. Thanks for calling a spade a spade. :clap :clap :clap

09PWR

[MK IISS]

09PWR: Where have you been? Don't hear much from you lately.

[09pwrd55]

Richard. Between a computer virus and a certain members fish storys , I just needed to take a vacation.

09PWR

[oil4kids]

Hey Fran And Richard

Take you foot off the accelerator before you guys drop a valve.

Look at this bigger picture, this MkII stuff is over 40 years old and probably quite hard to document every piece of the pie. WE cant get the exact info on President Kennedy- or where hes actually buried( out at sea) .We still dont know the exact cause of the airplane "American Pie" that crashed with Buddy Holly, Richie Valenz and the Big Bopper. Absolute exact detail on the 409 / 427 will always be argued and maybe so to keep the nascar/nhra guys confused

Its probably better to document the actual race cars during that era - photos tell a lot more of the story.

[SS425HP]

Oil, that crash was plain and simple vertigo. Non instrument rated pilot, night, no horizon. Same thing got John Kennedy Jr. That crash ( the February 3rd, 1959 crash ) changed a lot of rules in general aviation. From that point on, you could not get a commercial license without an instrument rating. I think the pilot only made it 7 miles after take off? The FAA findings are easy to find on that crash.
Your point is well taken, though. It was a long time ago on those engines. I can remember a few things about them, but not much.

Fred

[MK IISS]

JFK was buried at sea?

The MkII is, for the most part, not all that big a mystery. Pun intended. All you have to do is read the words of the men who designed and worked with the engine. However if you are not a rational thinker you may come to irrational conclusions.

I'll give you an example of irrational thinking.

Fran Preve objects to a political discussion on the Off Topic thread...says it will cause problems. Then he is the one that causes the problem with a rant that contains, for the most part, examples of irrational conclusions and just plain false information. Then he blames Bob for his rant. It's all Bob's fault... because Bob didn't pull the plug before Fran could go wacko.