348 into a 55 Nomad

[39coupe]

I've recently bought a 55 Nomad with a 6 cylinder, powerglide. I've got a 348 on the stand that I want to transplant into it? I was wondering what I can expect to have to do to get it in? Will I be able to use the front mount on the 348 and just drop it in? Will I have to relocate the transmission crossmember? Are there any clearance issues I should be concerned with...... firewall, steering box, etc? Will the stock exhaust manifolds fit? I really don't want to run headers. Will a stock V8 radiator be adequate to cool it?

Thanks in Advance for any information offered.

Al T.

PS: By the way, you guys (and ladies) have a great site here with a wealth of information. Glad it's here.

[jim_ss409]

Welcome to the site. :cheers
There's no way that engine will fit! The best thing would be to sell me that car cheap and cut your losses. :deal JUST KIDDING! :D :rofl
That looks like a great project you've got there. There are a few guys that have put W engines into shoeboxes that should be able to give you some answers. I know that when you install a regular big block, 396-454 you usually have to either move the engine ahead about 1 1/2" or masage the firewall a bit for valve cover clearance. My guess is the W engine would fit about the same.

[39coupe]

Thanks for the welcome.

Yeah I know it's just going to be a crappy old station wagon............. but they might catch on someday :rolleyes:

I'm thinking the 6 should be close in length to the 348, and weight wise their within 5 pounds of each other so I should be OK with the coils.


Al T.

[Dond409]

Yeah I know it's just going to be a crappy old station wagon............. but they might catch on someday

I take offense to the above statement. See below

[39coupe]

Nice wagon.............. must be a fun pass at the strip!

Al T.

PS............ I like wagons, gives me a place to sleep when I'm in the doghouse!

[Dond409]

Yes it is a fun car. Check out the below link.


http://www.348-409.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1091

[JimKwiatkowski]

Thanks for the welcome.

Yeah I know it's just going to be a crappy old station wagon............. but they might catch on someday :rolleyes:

I'm thinking the 6 should be close in length to the 348, and weight wise their within 5 pounds of each other so I should be OK with the coils.


Al T.

Al T, Welcome to to the site and it's nice to see another shoebox owner :) A 55 Nomad is not another crappy old station wagon,I'ts a Classic,very few were made.

The oil pan needs to be modified to clear the steering linkage,the left exhaust manifold is also a tight fit to the the steering gear.Use the 6cly rad mounting with a upgraded 4 core rad.

[39coupe]

Jim,

I've been looking for a 55 Nomad for a long time, actually had this engine waiting for me to find one. I know it's not a crappy wagon......... was trying to interject a little humor. ;)

Very excited about doing this build. Just need to get the Nomad home.

The 409 in your 57, did you have to do any alterations to the frame to get it in. The Nomad needs a complete restoration, but it's been storage in a barn in Virginia for just about 30 years. I'm planning on keeping the 6 just in case I want to do a full resto in the future. I'm told it's got 16,000 documented miles on it (that's what the title says.... if that means anything).

How is your 409 mounted? Did you use the front cradle motor mount on the engine? Was any fabrication/cutting/drilling required. I'm really hoping I don't have to butcher the frame to get it in for the above reason. What are you running for a tranny.

Thanks for your input.


Al T.

[JimKwiatkowski]

Al,I have done alot of alterations to my 57 and you do not want to do this to a Nomad like this,you should restore it to orginal.We do have a member that has installed a 348 in a 55 with very few alterations and here's a link to his profile to send him a PM or E-Mail to ask him some questions.
http://www.348-409.com/forum/member.php?u=35

[39coupe]

Jim,

Thanks for the contact. Believe me, If I have to do anything that isn't reversible I won't be doing it. I respect these cars too much. I just have this vision of popping the hood on the Nomad and seeing a "W" in it. I've wanted a "W" in a car longer than I've wanted a Nomad with a "W" in it. Thanks again for the contact.

Al T.

PS: Being an uninformed Canadian, how accurate are the mileages reported on Titles?

[jim_ss409]

Here's a link to an old thread that might help. http://www.348-409.com/forum/showthread.php?t=506
Here's a link to a site that you might find interesting. http://www.bruneauperformance.ca/ Aubrey is a member here and is located fairly close to you in Hanna Alberta. He's got lots of experience with 348's and 409's and if you look in the projects section of his site you'll see a nice 55 Chevy that he put a 454 into.

[Loafer409]

Well ya got yourself a bardge, so I guess it makes sense to put a boat anchor in it.. :rofl Why don't ya save yourself some shame and embarassment and let me take that stuff off your hands before too many people find out ya got that junk... :eek: I would be willing to come take it off your hands for what I can get out of it for scrap prices, that is if gas doesn't keep going up... :brow

Sound like a great project!!! :cool:

[W Head]

39coupe,
I put a 348 in a 55 Chevy in 1963. I welded in side motor mounts from a 59 Chevy and had to dimple the pass. side firewall to clear the valve cover/head, moved the radiator to the front side of the radiator support. Also the stock fuel pump did not clear the cross member and used a electric pump and block off plate. This was a standard shift car and I just do not remember if I used the same Z bar (bell crank) or not. Belived I used the 55 bell housing. Used the stock 348 exhaust manifolds, close, but I don't remember having to grind off anything. It was not a very hard swap and really woke that 55 up. I don't think I left anything out , but I may have (that was a long time ago). It had a little more pep than the 265 that was taken out. The young lady I was dating at the time had a 63 - 409 - 340 HP - 4, speed and that 55 would beat her 2-3 cars in the 1/4.

By the way, I know where the is a red and beige, with beige interrior Nomad setting up on blocks in a old barn just out side of Corsicana, Tex. I has been there for 10/12 years that I know of. The old man that owns it stays drunk most of the time and spends the summer with his daughter in Colorado. I have tried to buy it several times and stop by anytime I am in the area. He keeps gas in it and starts it when he is in Texas. The barn will most likely fall down on it before someone gets it. It is a shame :bang

W Head

59 El Camino 348-3,2s
59 Impala 409-2,4s

[39coupe]

W head,

Thanks for the info. Once I get the Nomad home I'll be sure to pick your brain a little more.

Have you tried trading the Nomad for beer????

Al T.

[MileHiSS]

39 Coupe,
I am building a 55 retro gasser out of one of my 55 Chevies. I have the front clip off, and at one point not to long ago, I thought about putting a 409 that I have, in the 55. I set it in just for grins and to check fitment. I have side motor mounts located 1" forward, and I cut out thestock transmission side mounts. I have the radiator in the 6 cylider position. clearance was fine, but you might have trouble if you are going to run a Saginaw 605 power steering box. (I have one in my 57 Chevy, and had to run tight tubes for clearance.) I am probably going to run a straight axle in my gasser.


Personaly, I would use side motor mounts, and a transmission crossmember, no matter what motor you are going to run. the transmission crossmember can be made to move forward for a powerglide or a Muncie, and back to fit a 700R4 or a 2004R.

If you want to restore the Nomad at some point to a six( I am betting you never do) the side mounts can be removed, and the transmission horns can be rewelded if you carefully take them out with a die grinder.

Your firewall will be another area that you will want to pay attention to. It's hard to make a motor swap without a little firewall work. I always fill the firewall and use a raingear under dash wiper system to get rid of the ugly firewall mounted wiper motor. The 55 unit is a little harder to install than the 57 unit, but both work great.

Good Luck,

Dave in Dever

[39coupe]

Dave,

Thanks for the great information.

Out of curiosity, do you have any electric wiper motors kicking around? I need one for another car I've got.

Thanks.

Al T.

[MileHiSS]

I sold the last one I had on EBay. That's the place to check, or you might try our favorite site for all Tri Five parts, Ralph Roberts at WWW.56chevy.com
He is the most knowledgeable tri five supplier around, and he has the best prices also.

Dave in Denver

[348NUT]

So I'm not the only nut around here! :D I like your way of thinking Al. I modified a set of McGaughy's 3/4" forward side mounts to move the engine aproximately 1" forward from stock and 1/4" to the passenger side. I welded em in for ease but they can be bolted if you take off the A-arms. I used a rear crossmember conversion but left the stock frame horns on the frame. The stock 348 exhaust manifolds still hit the stock steering box slightly so I used washers under the lower mount to tilt the box outward. I did have to rotate the stock style fuel pump to the rear so the lines would clear the frame. Now both heads, exhaust manifold and fuel pump have about 1/4" clearance, butt everything works great, and I will add that I love the combination of the 700r4 and 3:36 posi also! Look at my old photos in the photo section, I know I haven't put any in there since I've had the thing on the road. I do have lots of digital photos of the whole process if you need me to Email any to you. Let me know and good luck! NUT :)
p.s. The oilpan has to be modified and the 6 cyl. radiator used, but then there is room for a clutch fan also.

[39coupe]

Nut,

Thanks for the info! I'll be getting ahold of you once the car shows up..... it's currently in transit. Thanks again for the info.

Al T.

[39coupe]

Thanks for all the previous advice! Well, reality has set in with the arrival of the car, and now it's time to ask about some details. I'm ready to pull the body off the frame to do some floor repairs and was wondering about side engine mounts. What do you guys feel are the best side engine mounts to buy? I'm assuming I want to go with the 3/4"(?) forward mount for firewall clearance? I'd love to get the "W" off the engine stand and into the frame.......... besides I could use the engine stand for 1/2 a rotisserie (I'm giong to need it) :p


Here's the project............. don't barns in Virginia have roofs???

Thanks again,

Al T.

[348NUT]

It's gonna be fun to tear that thing apart. Just make sure you keep your momentem up to put it back together :D I tried 3/4" forward in the frame first and the heads just touched on both sides. I modified the mounts to move the engine 1" forward and 1/4" to the pass. side. If you use rack and pinion steering you won't need to do that. I don't think a 605 box will fit at all with stock manifolds, maybe custom headers. I used McGauphy's http://www.mcgaughysclassic.com
Speedway has some but I have never seen them on a car. http://www.speedwaymotors.com/xq/aspx/paging.yes/dept_id.674/display_id.1177/qx/Product.htm
Terry put Chassis engineering ones in the stock location? I still don't know how that worked :dunno http://www.chassisengineeringinc.com/ Check out the link to the thread Jim posted if you haven't already. I'd do all your test fitting BEFORE you take the body off, then you can get the mounts in place and do all the painting/etc when the body is off. Good luck NUT

[39coupe]

Thanks Nut,

I hear you about keeping the momentum up. I did a frame off of a 68 442 convertible a few years ago and can get a bit overwhelming when all you see is a sea of loose parts.
Biggest thing is too get a bunch of work done before the novelty wears off.
The modifications you did to the mounts...... did you have to trim them to allow you to relocate them? What kind of rear crossmember did you use?
I'm planning on running the original powerglide after a rebuild. Any problems you can think of this is going to cause me?

Thanks,

Al T.

[348NUT]

I used a tubular 5 & 6 speed cross member I got cheap on EBay. It worked great! Your powerglide would work fine with the original Bell Housing side mounts and some type of spacers to move the engine forward. The old style front engine mounts would work with these also but would have to either be modified or new holes drilled forward in the frame. May I ask why you want the cast iron powerglide? I love the 700r4, lower first gear and better gas mileage too :deal
As you can see in the photos, I cut and shifted the 3/4" side mounts another 1/2" then put a 1/4" spacer behind the drivers side to shift it over. That's why I say APROXIMATELY 1" forward and 1/4" to the pass. side. for a final position. Hope this helps. :) NUT

[jerry]

I've recently bought a 55 Nomad with a 6 cylinder, powerglide. I've got a 348 on the stand that I want to transplant into it? I was wondering what I can expect to have to do to get it in? Will I be able to use the front mount on the 348 and just drop it in? Will I have to relocate the transmission crossmember? Are there any clearance issues I should be concerned with...... firewall, steering box, etc? Will the stock exhaust manifolds fit? I really don't want to run headers. Will a stock V8 radiator be adequate to cool it?

Thanks in Advance for any information offered.

Al T.

PS: By the way, you guys (and ladies) have a great site here with a wealth of information. Glad it's here.


Your 348 will fit right in, heater box may be in the way. But by useing a small piece of 2x4 and a small hammer in the lower right hand corner as you face the box, aprox. 2 inches up from the bottom. Lightly pound the lower part of the box in 1/2 to 5/8" in, this is to give the valve cover room to fit and helping when you need to remove the valve cover. Also you will have to move the radiater to the front of the core support for clearence

[39coupe]

[QUOTE=348NUT]I May I ask why you want the cast iron powerglide? I love the 700r4, lower first gear and better gas mileage too :deal

Nut,

Biggest reason is I've got this "period correct" thing I seem to be stuck on. I've got a 39 Ford Deluxe Coupe that I'm doing something similar to. 1957 Thuderbird 312, Offenhauser adapter, hurst motor mount, original 3 speed w/ open drive line conversion, 1957 ford 9". All parts that would have been around to use, late 50's.

The Nomad is going a similar route. I want to build it like it would have been built late 50's early 60's, hence the "W" block and the original powerglide.

Must just be a disease..... :dunno

Thanks again

Al T.

[gearhead409]

although i don't know if i agree with the iron glide ( an old B&M hydro would be real cool) the period correct 50s and 60s parts and cars are the thing to do in the streetrod world today. i'am kind of doing this with a 51 chevy pu i'am building for my wife. that's why it has a 409 in it. i hope i get it finished before this 50s-60s trend wears off. heck i even saw a restored 23tee bucket the other day. who would have guessed!

[39coupe]

Gearhead409,

Sounds like a cool truck.

Not really doing this because it's the "in" thing.... actually been building the coupe since '97 and the plan hasn't changed much, just what I want and like. Maybe I was ahead of the times............ and soon I'll likely be behind, but it really doesn't matter, I still like it. I just think it's the way the cars should be built from my perspective...... maybe I was born 15 years too late :rolleyes:

Anyway, you suggestion about the B&M Hydro.. can you tell me anymore about it?

Thanks, and good luck with the truck, I'm not sure I'd trust my wife with a 409....... her foots a bit stiff.

Al T.

[gearhead409]

i started working on this truck about the same time you started yours. it always ends up on the back burner as my customers take first priority. my wife can pretty much row a 4 speed and big engine as well as i can. when we first started dating she had a new corvette and knew how to burn rubber. she has driven my blown Tee Bucket a number of times and has trashed four demo derby station wagons. i don't think this truck will scare her one bit. it was her idea to put the 409 in it. i just hope i get it done soon or i may be sleeping in the garage! the B&M hydro was a very heavy cast iron 4 speed automatic trans with a very deep 1st gear. it was the hot ticket in the late 50s and early 60s at the drags in big horse power cars and some 55. 56 and 57 junior stock chevy sedan delivery's. it came stock in the early pontiacs, oldsmobiles, cadilacs and some gmc and chevy trucks. of course the company B&M did alot of work to them to make them perform well to. not sure you could find a good one today but they sure were neat in the old days.

[JimKwiatkowski]

Here's a link to B&M Hydro

http://www.bmracing.com/index.php?id=about&sid=3

[SS425HP]

That B & M Hydro was the big ticket in the AA/GS cars in the late 50s and early 60s. 4 speed hydromatic tranny. Deep 1st gear. 1-1 in 4th. They were huge, too. Think I saw one yesterday from an early Pontiac. Will check on that.

Fred

BTW, Gearhead, Do you remember the Olds and Cadillacs with the Dynaflows?????
Pontiac and Chevy with Powerglide???????? For one year. Trivia question!!!!!!

[gearhead409]

you got me on the dyno in an olds or caddy. i don't rememder a powerglide in a full size U.S. made tin indian. i do remember buick using the powerglide in some of their lesabres about 1965 or 66. powerglide in a tempest? - yes.

[SS425HP]

In 1953, the Hydromatic plant burned to the ground. No more for a year, so they went to Dynaflow in Cadillac and Oldsmobile, and Powerglide in the Chevy, and Pontiac. A lot of people were not happy, but there was no other choice. Might not have been a full year, but was for quite a while.

Got to be old to know this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fred

[gearhead409]

i was 8yrs. old back then. i looked in all my old change over and repair books last night and didn't find anything about this change. so today i asked my expert (dad) about this. he is 85yrs. old. he was a factory trained GM hydromatic and dynaflow machanic at a pontiac/ buick dealership in those days. without me saying anything other than asking him, did GM ever put a dynaflow in any other make cars? he answered like it had happened yesterday, yes in 53 the hydromatic plant burnt down and some olds and caddys got dynaflows. he didn't remember pontiac getting the powerglide but he did remember taking a dynaflow out of a caddy and rebuilding it. he said there wasn't much of anything written about it because GM didn't want anyone to know about it. FRED, YOU HAVE BEEN DOING YOUR HOMEWORK! GOOD JOB. ps, i bet the pontiacs with powerglides got sent over to the chevy dealerships.

[walkerheaders]

i have never seen an aluminum powerglide behind a BOP. with the iron glide, (1962 and older) it would have been easy with a new bellhousing adapter.
however, for the BOP (buick, olds , pontiac) there was a turbo 300 which was a 2 speed. and in a few very rare instances, i have seen a unibell t-300. unibell fits BOP and chevy. I spent 14 years in the transmission shop as an R&R man. I have put hands on every screwy automatic trans there ever was. the Hydro, iron glide, turbo glide, twin path, twin turbine, pontiac "slim jim" ,all of the goofy fordomatics, pushbutton aluminum and iron torque flites and a host of other brand X tranmissions. my memory is old, this was a long time ago.......but, I'm gonna stand firm and say there is no such thing as an aluminum powergllide case made to fit BOP.

[gearhead409]

you have way more experience with automatic transmissions than i do and i sure don't want to step on your toes. heck i won't even touch a computer controlled trans today, got too much other work to do anyway. there are some BOP bellhsg. powerglide trans out there. the 1970 GM factory pontiac service manual i have shows you how to repair one. the book ( powerglide transmission handbook by carl h. munroe) mentions pontiac using it from 1970 to 1973. i think GM called it a M-35. it may have been used in some buicks and olds too but i never found any info to that effect. P.S. 39coupe. we didn't mean to steal your thread. sorry.

[gearhead409]

i'am like you. in the past ten or so years i have sold a dozen or more glides to racers ( rebuildable cores) i only kept two for my 62 projects. everything else i have is a 4 speed. LOVE ROWING THOSE GEARS. hot rods have clutch pedals!

[39coupe]

NO problem........... I asked the question :D

P.S. 39coupe. we didn't mean to steal your thread. sorry.[/QUOTE]

Al T.

[vanst]

Looks like most guys are giving you the bussiness and not answering your question. There are a number of things to look for for this transplant. I have a 55 convertible with a 409/425 that looks as if it's a factory install. Drop me a privite e-mail and we can chat or talk on the phone as typing sucks. There are a few pictures under vanst on this site if you wish to look at them. Terry