409 Engine Bad Rap

[ROYALOAK62]

Likes like the 409 had the bad rap said about it once again. The marvelous talkers at the Barret-Jackson show just said it's a "TRUCK" engine during that 63 Impala SS with the 327 cu. 4-speed in it auction.
Wish they would know the facts about it 409 history before they made comments like that.

Dave

[Ronnie Russell]

Dave, I got so mad I wanted to throw something. I saw a 63 Conv, probably a 409, right at the end of the telecast. They picked that time to go to commercial. Guess I will check the outcome tomorrow on-line. Why cant they hire one specialist of special-interest and muscle cars?

[real61ss]

The 409 truck engine thing ticks me off too because people today who were not around when these motors came out don't understand the meaning. Today, the statement "it's a truck engine" sounds as if it is a bad thing but back in the late fifties and early sixties, "it's a truck engine" was a good thing because it meant it was "heavy duty" and made better. In those days, NASCAR race cars used truck hubs, truck lugs and other parts because they were stronger. (The Chevrolets that ran in NASCAR in the late fifties and early sixties had 6 lugs) In those days, the fact that the 348 was said to be a truck engine meant it was designed for tough use and was a better engine, the thing to have if you planned to abuse it.
Oh well, that's my story and I'm stick'n to it!!!

[348NUT]

:scratch Never really thought of it that way. Good point Tommy. Maybe I should start telling everyone my 55 has a truck engine in it!:D Na, they just wouldn't understand:grumble: NUT

[chev1960]

I feel the same here , like having a slap in the face ,what a idiot , this guy thinks he know everything , somebody should give him a kick in the a.. for comment like that , what a idiot, idiot idiot idiot, its a same that a big organisation like barret jackson have a idiot like that on TV making this kind of comment . IDIOT
chev1960

[models916]

I'm sure that kind of talk drives the prices down.

[CDNpontiac409guy]

Gee, a 427 is a truck engine too.
Wonder if those idiots refer to that L88 Corvette as being propelled by the same engine that's in the bus that takes your kids to school ?

Basically, GM built the engine. It was the best they had at the time, and BECAUSE it was good, it's basic configuration was used in trucks as well. In the case of the indesputeably fine 427... it was used in trucks for MANY MANY years after the last one was put in a car ( 1969 model year ). Wonder why that would be ? HHHMMM ?
Could it be BECAUSE it was the best:dunno :p :deal

[Ronnie Russell]

You ever stop and think, " when was the 348 designed?" Most know the 348 was on the showrooms in Sept. 57, right? how long does it take to get from the drawing board to production? All the tests, tooling up for production of a completely new design, dyno tests, performance tests , all the meetings with the brass to convince a new design is needed. Engine had to be designed in 1955 to get it ready for Sept. 57. 1955? The 265 was brand new!!! It is that " planning for the future" that GM has lost years ago. Dont have any reason for "yakking", just food for thought.

[W Head]

I sent thoes "Turkeys" a e-mail telling them how many folks they "pissed" off last night with the 348-409 truck statement.:evil Also told them to go to this web site and click on General Car Talk and see all the wonderful things the 348/409 fans had to say abiout them.:cuss If you wish, go to speed channel .com and then to barrett jackson site and you can sent e-mail stright to thoes guys.:stooges

W-Head
59 El Camino 348-3,2s
59 Impala 409-2,4s

[fatride]

I wouldn't waste my time on those skid marks!

[wrench]

I sent thoes "Turkeys" a e-mail telling them how many folks they "pissed" off last night with the 348-409 truck statement.:evil Also told them to go to this web site and click on General Car Talk and see all the wonderful things the 348/409 fans had to say abiout them.:cuss If you wish, go to speed channel .com and then to barrett jackson site and you can sent e-mail stright to thoes guys.:stooges

W-Head
59 El Camino 348-3,2s
59 Impala 409-2,4s

I did too. but every message sent just bounces.

Here's mine:

---
In the interest of historical automotive accuracy, please inform the TV
announcers that the 348-409 W series Chevy engine was NOT, repeat NOT developed as a truck engine! It was developed for the automotive line at Chevrolet. This is a false claim that has been floating around for years and should be set straight.

Thank you,

Tom Collins

---

[jim_ss409]

I haven't seen much this year but when Brock Yates was one of the "auction experts" every time a 348/409 car came up he quickly pointed out that it was a truck engine. I guess these guys are just repeating the same thing. It doesn't surprise me that most of them don't know any better but surely Steve Magnante should know how fast they were.

[chev1960]

The IDIOT did it again last night with another of is idiot comment about the 348 motor in the 58 impala , How can Barret Jackson accept that ,a serious org like that ,having a idiot like that making comments about , for the real first big block chevrolet motor , that put chevrolet on the drag map, I send 3 emails to Barret Jackson about that , I hope if wee send a couple more they will understand , and take that idiot out o fthe air, the 348 and 409 or legend ,and having stupid people like that destroying there history like that its a shame.
chev1960

[CDNpontiac409guy]

A while ago, we were complaing about the escalating prices of W block cars.
Comments like the ones I'm hearing they've made, should cast a decent cloud over the public's perception of our beloved cars/engines.

I don't ever watch crap like that.

[munger345]

I sent a long E-Mail to those jerks yesterday, and will again today. Do the E-Mails do any good? I don't know, but last night I only noticed one reference to truck engines. It was made by the NASCAR wannabe, Mike Joy, when he was talking about the black 58 Imp. 348. I didn't notice any truck mtr. comments when they were doing the white 62 SS 409.

I think Brock Yates started all of this several years ago, and he should know better.


Eldon

[skipxt4]

You would think an organization like Barrett Jackson would be more informed. It would be in their best interest to know all the facts. I would think if they were auctioning a 1963 Impala with a 425 H.P. 409, they could say a few things like. This was Chevys first big block, won numberous races in its time, is still widely sought after, etc. All types of accolades would definately add to the cars worth. I think by just saying, " Its a truck motor, probably knocked a few thousand bucks out of their profit margin. Just my opinion.... Skip...:nono1:

[dq409]

You would think an organization like Barrett Jackson would be more informed. It would be in their best interest to know all the facts. I would think if they were auctioning a 1963 Impala with a 425 H.P. 409, they could say a few things like. This was Chevys first big block, won numberous races in its time, is still widely sought after, etc. All types of accolades would definately add to the cars worth. I think by just saying, " Its a truck motor, probably knocked a few thousand bucks out of their profit margin. Just my opinion.... Skip...:nono1:

The first part of your statement is true but I think the ones who bid on a car like this KNOW what they are bidding on.
It`s the babble on TV just to fill the air with words. Even so as you say, They should know the cars and the history of theses cars!!! dq

[real61ss]

"I didn't notice any truck mtr. comments when they were doing the white 62 SS 409."

No but the car was presented as a '62 409 with 425 horsepower, the chrome on the motor was explained as a factory dress-up kit and these clowns were trying to decide if if was an original!!!! .:stooges

[munger345]

Maybe the E-Mails are doing some good. I watched the auction tonight, and never heard one reference to truck engines. Several 409's went across the block. Guess I'll watch again tomorrow and see what happens. Barret-Jackson is scheduled for 7 hrs. of live T.V. time tomorrow. [1-20-06]

Eldon

[droptop62]

I know you fella's are very passionate about the 348-409 chevrolet engines.
But everybody can't be an expert on everything. I am sure there are probably some Ford and Mopar enthusiasts who think the Barrett Jackson anouncers are disgracing their favorite brand of cars as well.
The anouncers are just doing the best they can.
There is a little write up in the Hemmings "Muscle Machines" magazine on page 53 December 2005 issue. The page is written by Ken Gross, and is a look back from his perspective and experiences around the 409 cars when the cars were new.
In part of his writing , he claims that
"we didn't call them big blocks back then; they were known as truck engines."
This is how it was remembered by somebody who was around these cars.
I don't know why some of you guys are so hung up on what other people say.
Who cares what people call the 409. It should not change your appreciation of the engine or cars. It is also not worth your time to be irritated by other peoples comments about your "409" engine and what it is, or isn't.

Well either way, Barrett Jackson must be doing something right, because all you guys are watching. And there is obviously some fellas with big check books there buying cars.

[Tom Kochtanek]

I dont' recall, but maybe in 1958 being called a "truck engine" might have been a complement, and as mentioned this might be stuck in the heads of those from that period. I know a local Corvette guy who calls my 348-409 "pig farmer engines" in reference to the fact that they did durable work around the farm and were reliable. He seriously means it as a complement. Me, I'll take "truck engine" over "pig engine" anytime :) :) :)

Maybe "truck engine" means something different in todays jargon (lower compression, breathing, restricted intake, and so forth) and it appears to be less admirable in it's description...

On the other hand, there's a big difference between 220 horses (truck 409) and a rating of 380-400-409-425 horses (performance versions of the 409), isn't there?

Like DropTop62 says, who cares what they are called? We know what they really represent, don't we?

Enjoy!

TomK

[CDNpontiac409guy]

Like DropTop62 says, who cares what they are called? We know what they really represent, don't we?

TomK

I don't agree, Tom. We are passionate, yes. Part of the reason we are even here in this on-line club, is to become informed and help inform others about these engines and cars. That would include the potential buying public.
Comments like those being made on public television, border on "Automotive Defamation":cuss
aah
I won't touch that:rolleyes: :p

Anyhow... not all of us are watching...
I wouldn't waste my time on it.

[wrench]

Hey, CPG.....

You got any photos of that small demonstration vehicle you could email to me?

Or are they still on your site?

Thanks,
Tom

[jester]

I don't know which one of the members said it first but I use the line whenever I hear someone say "truck engine"

If you know of a 12.50 second vehicle with a truck engine in it, bring it around, I'd like to see it.:rofl :rofl

[droptop62]

I don't agree, Tom. We are passionate, yes. Part of the reason we are even here in this on-line club, is to become informed and help inform others about these engines and cars. That would include the potential buying public.
Comments like those being made on public television, border on "Automotive Defamation":cuss
aah
I won't touch that:rolleyes: :p

Anyhow... not all of us are watching...
I wouldn't waste my time on it.

Not everybody here has a sacred shrine dedicated to the 409 in their garage.
Cars are my hobby, and I prefer to keep my hobby interests as something fun, not something to be argued about. And my interests in cars goes way beyond just one make or model. For some people this is for fun and enjoyment not a hard core super intense if you say something bad about my car I'm gonna start an argument kind of hobby. I just want to know why you think watching Barrett Jackson is a waste of time? Some of the nicest, and rarest cars in the country roll across that auction block, I don't care if the anouncers don't get everything right, there is 1100 hundred different cars going through the auction. the anouncers can't know every car in every detail and fact. And if the buying public buys a car just because of something an anouncer says well that is an impulsive buyer and it is not for you to worry about.
Relax man, this stuff is supposed to be fun.

[Ronnie Russell]

droptop, I watch the auction because it is interesting to see a room full of millionaires spending money. I, too, like all old cars. Loved the 56 Ford Crown Vic! I guess our main point is that right now muscle cars are the big sellers. Why couldnt Barret-Jackson hire a muscle car specialist to be on the floor? Mike Joy found some dust on an engine and said that would probably cost the seller a few thousand dollars. I dont think the bidders could see that dust from their seats. The announcers make stupid comments, but having said that, I watch because the cars are the stars of the show. I can put up with the comments , no big deal. Just because I mention my opinion about their lack of knowledge does not mean I lose sleep over it. BTW, the 63 ragtop ,409, that sold for $138,000 was not referred to as having a truck motor in it. Maybe the e-mails some sent educated the staff some. I dont know. Doesnt really matter, I will watch again today because it is entertaining.

[bignbad60]

Never watched the auction on TV, But usually attend in person and it's a great place to visit. Would highly recommend to any carnut or hobyist. It's probabally the only place on earth where you can find a one of a kind car and there will be 3 or 4 just like it parked 15 feet away. It's really like being a kid in a candy store and you really get an upclose look at all these cars long before they are brought to stage, very impressive event.
Tim

[dq409]

Not everybody here has a sacred shrine dedicated to the 409 in their garage.
I don't care if the anouncers don't get everything right, there is 1100 hundred different cars going through the auction. the anouncers can't know every car in every detail and fact. And if the buying public buys a car just because of something an anouncer says well that is an impulsive buyer and it is not for you to worry about.
Relax man, this stuff is supposed to be fun.

These guys, Barret Jackson, are the best of the best and not some Joe Blow used cars dealers !! So they should know the correct info on any car that crosses the stage !!
It`s called doing your homework !!

I don`t think we are out of line when we call them on a huge mistake. And i don`t think we are getting our panties ruffled either, just pointing out short comings in an aution company that should know the details and facts.

Either way it is still fun to watch,,, dq

[4onthefloor]

Not sure which guy said truck motor....but this has been the best year for BJ in the people they are using...Steve Magnante know a ton about them all....and he was darn good on the 409 and it's history...and I hate to break it to you guys but it's not a room full of millionaires !!!

[JimKwiatkowski]

I hate to break it to you guys but it's not a room full of millionaires !!![/QUOTE]
I'll bet 98% of the bidders are millionaires :deal It must be nice to bid on these cars.:brow

[MK IISS]

Unfortunately the "Truck Engine" label for the W engine will never go away. Chevrolet engineers, such as Bill Howell, who actually worked with the W/Mk I, the Mk II, Mk IV, etc. engines often referred to the 348/409/427 engine as a "Truck Engine" and in many cases did not speak too kindly of it. For example:

"For some reason, whoever was in charge over all V-8 engine design decided not to let Zora's group design and develop the Mk II. It was designed as a racing engine right from scratch with the idea that you could de-tune it for street use easier than you could take a truck engine, like the W-engine, and make a race engine out of it. Management decided that was their mistake because the the W-engine was such a flop as a race engine. They took a truck engine and tried to make a race engine. The new philosophy was to build a race engine, then de-tune it for passenger cars."

Bill Howell
Chevrolet Test Engineer

When Mr Howell referred to the W as "a flop" he was talking about NASCAR racing because the Mk IIs original purpose was to win in NASCAR.

[4onthefloor]

They must be doing something right if all the bidders are millionaires:bow

[chev1960]

Sorry to say , but steve magnante, thats the guy that said 2 time truck motor.
chev1960

[MK IISS]

A LS6 Chevelle just sold for $1,150,000.00

[JimKwiatkowski]

here's the link to $1,150,000 Chevelle.

http://community-2.webtv.net/musclecarkid/1970ChevelleSuper/page2.html

[CDNpontiac409guy]

Just a matter of opinion, what is more valuable... a "numbers" trailered black on red 62 BelAir 409HP car, or a 454 Chevelle.
Maybe if the anouncers would stop referring to the 409 as a truck engine, the bidding prices would indicate that... not what the anouncers are planting. And yes, everybody is impressionable.

Personally, while the 70 LS6 Chevelle rag is undoubtedly desireable....
a 62 Bel Air 409 sport coupe is a better car... and I would prefer it 2-1.
or a 62 Impala SS rag, or a 61 Impala ( even a 348 ! )coupe, or a 63 Parisienne 409, or a 64 Custom Sport 409... or hey.. a 59 Parisienne 348 coupe !

Again, just my opinion... but I'm here BECAUSE this is 348-409 .com:deal
( Sometime, Bob, our leader, is going to have to tell us how a Chevelle owner ended up with a 409 ;) .... because I've rarely RARELY seen the two mix :dunno )

[droptop62]

Just a matter of opinion, what is more valuable... a "numbers" trailered black on red 62 BelAir 409HP car, or a 454 Chevelle.
Maybe if the anouncers would stop referring to the 409 as a truck engine, the bidding prices would indicate that... not what the anouncers are planting. And yes, everybody is impressionable.

Personally, while the 70 LS6 Chevelle rag is undoubtedly desireable....
a 62 Bel Air 409 sport coupe is a better car.

You're kidding right.
There is no way that the anouncers are hurting the bids on a 409 car because of what they say. The mid to late 60's and early 70's muscle cars are the HOT ticket right now. and I doubt the 409 cars will ever pass them in value with exception to maybe a Z-11.

And as far as a 62 belair 409 being a better car than a 70 chevelle 454, I doubt that could be true. While the belair 409 may have had it's time in the spotlight, it would surely now be in the shadow of the LS6 Chevelle, or a COPO 427 Camaro or Chevelle, or a ZL1 Camaro.

While the 409 cars are awesome, they were surpassed by other muscle cars.
They had their time and are still beautiful cars. Another part of GM perfomance history and part of a stepping stone to bigger and better things.

[Ronnie Russell]

droptop, As much as I hate to say it...... I cant argue with you when you are right.::doh

[fatride]

For me the value is relative to when you were growing up. A 1970 car is to new for me, when I was going to the roundy round tracks they were referred to as late models! Comparing a late model big block (1965 to date) to our beloved W engines is not a fair comparison. I think we are associating worth with monitary value only. I for one could give a **** less how much the car is worth in $$. Pride in ownership and being able to get together with the people that own these cars is what drives me! By the way, I think the 1970 454 Chevelle is a great car.

[droptop62]

droptop, As much as I hate to say it...... I cant argue with you when you are right.::doh

Ronnie,
I don't want to argue with anyone either, that is not my intention.
Just trying to keep an open mind about all my favorite GM cars.
and to express that this should be fun for everyone. and while opinions are important, they are just that ....

I just think the Barrett Jackson guys are doing the best they can.
As I said before there are 1100 cars running through the auction, and probably not two of them are alike. They just cant hire a specialist to give the facts and history for every kind of car that goes through the auction.

My parents are in Arizona and have been to the Barrett Jackson auction and another big auction that is running at the same time. while they don't have the kind of money it takes to be buyers, they have called home twice today, they are haveing a really good time seeing all the cars and watching the auctions.

:cheers

[droptop62]

For me the value is relative to when you were growing up. A 1970 car is to new for me, when I was going to the roundy round tracks they were referred to as late models! Compairing a late model big block (1965 to date) to our beloved W engines is not a fair comparison. I think we are associating worth with monitary value only. I for one could give a **** less how much the car is worth in $$. Pride in ownership and being able to get together with the people that own these cars is what drives me! By the way, I think the 1970 454 Chevelle is a great car.

Fatride, you make a very valid point. while monitary value drives some people. For me the cars I grew up liking and the cars my folks had are the cars I like to own and are far more valuable and meaningful for me to own than a high dollar 70 Chevelle LS6 or Shelby Mustang. The memories and stories of my fathers cars will forever be more important. I think people should buy the cars they are passionate about and enjoy them because they like them, not because they are valuable. and if you can find a group of people who can enjoy them with you, even better.
:cheers

[CDNpontiac409guy]

No droptop,
I'm not kidding... right ?

I said it is a BETTER car. Not faster.
and no sir, THAT is no kidding.


Recent posts in this discussion are certainly adding adhesive to the once slightly loosened elements which over the years, have led me to draw undeniable conclusions... based on extensive observation of patterns.



I better bow out of this now

ya'll carry on:coffee:

[4onthefloor]

I don't know...I look at them as bookends to the history of Chevrolet hi performance....both have their positives...all of them in between I would like to have in my garage....strangely...I never had a 70 Chevelle...I don't like them...now 69 is another story...how can you get any better than a 62 Belair 409 or a 69 427 Chevelle ? Values are relative...I think the 409 stuff has actually taken a spike upwards. I was in High school in 1970...and oddly enough I always wanted a 62 Belair 409...damn valve covers hooked me.

[droptop62]

I said it is a BETTER car. Not faster.


Although I sense that you are feeling a little tense about this discussion,........
I will ask anyways.
What are you basing this opinion on?
How could a car that is eight years older in technology be a better car?

just off the top of my head, The 70 Chevelle may have been faster, but also had a far superior brake system, The advancement of the automatic transmissions, the industry standards of safety had come a long way, seat belts, steering columns that would collapse on impact, the fit and finish of the cars was much improved. The 454 LS6 was an advanced engine over the 409. Ride and handling much improved.
these are just quick thoughts without getting into any research on either vehicle.

I can understand that you may prefer the 62, but an educated guess would say that this would be comparing apples and oranges, the two cars are not in the same league or category.
Although you may think that this response is an indication that I am trying to argue with you , it is not.
I am just trying to find some sort of validation to your responses.
your responses just seem angry and unclear of any real facts to back up what you are saying.

I am not telling you that you have to like the chevelle, and I am not here to bash on the 409, I like this website and have liked the 62 chevrolets for a long time. I am with you on that one. The 62's are neat cars, and one of my favorites.

[Dond409]

OK, enough already!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jim_ss409]

Maybe this is the logo I need for my 409 powered 55. :deal I considered it when I was thinking about the name Cheap Thrills. But as the credit card bills come in, somehow "cheap" doesn't seem to be the right description.

[droptop62]

Maybe this is the logo I need for my 409 powered 55.

Jim,
If the "keep on trucking" logo doesn't work for you, maybe you could use this one.
This photo is from a car that has been sitting in the junk yard for a long time.
well maybe at least you'll get a laugh out of it.
Keep on streaking!

[jim_ss409]

Boy, that's one of those late 60's or early 70's fads that we don't want to see make a comeback.:eek:

[DIV1RACER-2]

Maybe wer'e all missing the boat here. Why not consider what is going on this thread " BAD RAP " or " BUM RAP " just athought !!! :dunno

[JIMS409]

Hey Jim, on Denny's theme...Paint her Chestnut Metallic (Nice color BTW) and call her "Plain Brown Rapper." :dunno

[ROYALOAK62]

OK guys my thread has gone as far as I'd like to see it go.

We all are qualified Chevrolet "W" engine lovers, I hope. The Barret-Jackson people have stopped the "bad tone" in their remarks about the 409 since the first telecast. So we must have done something when we E-Mail'ed them our opinion of the 409. As for the melee about what is better, it depends on ones beliefs. Just like anyones political convictions. They all have merit. To each his own.

Dave

[Ronnie Russell]

Well said..........

[chev1960]

OK, the End.

[1958 impala]

Barrett Jackson,
What a discrace to car lovers all over they only care about making millions off the general public mostly people with a fat wallet who no nothing about classic cars.I will say this much ,a nice car show if you didnt have to listen to the auctioneer trying to gouge the last penny out of each and every one of the bidders.Pretty big hearted of B.J to give away a T.V after they reap millions in proffit wasnt it? I guess Ive vented enough Ill keep my 348 and 409 moters even if I dont have a truck to put them in.

[chev1960]

100 0/0 true ,You got it 1958 impala .

[dq409]

$640,000 for a Hemi Cuda ??? How about almost the same price for the next hemi Cuda?:dunno

Watching the bidding and prices sat night was something to behold.

These sh**stains that have more money then brains were fun to watch !! NOT ! But the cars ARE the show !!

Forget the TV guys,,, Forget about the boozo bidders !!! THE CARS !! Look and lovem,, some day thats all we`ll be able to do,,
unless we keep our cars and love them with burning rubber, and quick shifts !!!

OK,, just having fun,, enjoy the show,, it`s outa our control,,:beerbang

[4onthefloor]

One of those Hemi Cudas was a rebody at 600k.....:doh

[models916]

What about the 70 Cuda convert in one only orange $2Million.

[tripowerguy]

Amazingly Jim Defrank of California Car Covers races these Hemi Cudas. Can you imagine paying $600,000 for a car and then racing the crap out of it. I'm sure Jim Defrank didn't pay that much but it would be interesting to know how much he did pay. If you are trying to sell parts or cars you want the most you can get but when you buy you want it as reasonable as you can get it. I want to have fun with my W engine car. I could build a small block and go faster cheaper but I want my 58 to have a W with 3 two's. I have been around since the first W hit the road and they have been my first love. By mid 1958 they completely dominated Super Stock and held that post for 4 years, that is a pretty good feat for a "poor design".:rofl Roy

[Bomar]

ON the subject of Bad Rap or Bum Rap by Denny. Just yesterday I called a freind of mine that runs the trap range at a local gun club and is also a car guy. I asked him to put the word out that I wanted to sell one of my trap guns. He asked me why and I explained that I had found a 61 Bel Air that had been framed offed that needed finished and came with allot of new parts, a complete 348 and some 409 parts. With a chuckle he said oh a truck motor. With that I said just try to sell the gun, thanks.
Bo

[MK IISS]

The W engine will always be known as a truck engine...we can't get away from it.

This is one of the reasons why:

"The 348 engine was designed with trucks in mind. It was designed and put on paper as a big truck engine, but ended up in passenger cars and became a 409 racing engine."

Fred Frincke
Chevrolet Engineering

[jim_ss409]

Last week they repeated an earlier Barrett Jackson broadcast, from Florida last year I think. When a 409 car came up the broadcaster in the booth said to Steve Magnante, the guy on the floor. " the 409 was actually a truck engine wasn't it" Steve said that the W engine came out in 58 for use in BOTH cars and trucks. He also went on to say that the 409 was a very special engine.
Brock Yates didn't like the W engine. Every time one came up to the block he would point out that it was a truck engine and that it never worked very well. (funny, it worked well enough to win a bunch of national titles in drag racing) I think the broadcasters in the booth are just repeating what they heard. The fact that it was a truck engine doesn't bother me. It's just that some people dismiss it as being just a truck engine, therefore no good for racing.

[4onthefloor]

Brock Yates is a nitwit...I wonder if he knows 283,327, 396,427,454 were also truck engines. Magnante knew more.

[models916]

Watching an IHRA funny car race the other afternoon, the anouncer said "not bad for a truck engine with new heads" referring to a BBC in the ranks that made it to the semi finals. Sounds like anything that ever got put in a BIG truck is always a truck engine. I think he was alluding to the fact that the design was successful enought to cross both platforms. As opposed to the race only Mopar Hemi design.

[CDNpontiac409guy]

Got the 'ol truck all tuned up
http://www.bruneauperformance.ca/watchfasteststock409.html

[Skip FIx]

I used to use the old "348 truck motor" when street racing and having to pop the hood. Luckily in the early 70s most had forgotten about 409s "only BBC were fast".

[MK IISS]

Aubrey: I must have watched your video 50 times...now and in the past. You can hear the rev-limiter cut in in 1st gear or you back off the throttle a little bit.

Thank You

[wrench]

Got the 'ol truck all tuned up


Damn dats one good lookin' truck.....

:D

Keep on truckin'

[CDNpontiac409guy]

You can hear the rev-limiter cut in in 1st gear or you back off the throttle a little bit.

Thank You

aaaaah..... good ear:p
Yes to both, MK:eek: Tires hook for a split second, then chassis unloads, and the brand new slicks just spin right off. Yes, I have to let off in 1st.

Yes Wrench, I know this was your favourite truck style too:deal


Sorry guys... didn't want to post the video. I'm trying to make it a sound file only.
It's not about my car... It's just that in case this "truck engine" talk was starting to get to some members... we needed to hear one.
MAN, you should hear the noise of the Nostalgia SS 2dr post:deal .... by comparison, mine sounds like a wimpering liitle girl:p
But that's for another member to post:coffee:

[tripowerguy]

Thanks Aubrey for letting us watch that video.:bow :bow It makes me want to sell something so I can get a stick shift in the 58. There is just something about slamming it through the gears that makes life right.:D Roy

[jim_ss409]

"MAN, you should hear the noise of the Nostalgia SS 2dr post .... by comparison, mine sounds like a wimpering liitle girl
But that's for another member to post"

Hey, Other Member... C'mon eh! Post a sound bite for us.:beerbang

[Steve "wully bully"]

Aubrey,
Were you referring to me as the other member? If so, I don't have the computer savy to post the video here, but if you go to our website, and look at the bottom of this page there are three video clips ( www.wullybully.com/action.html ). The one on the right is of Carl, during the last pass of the 8400 rpm 427inch 409, the two on the left are of me. The best one is the one on the bottom, as I have a two second head start against the A/ND, so you can really here the engine. The other two runs are during time trials, and it is hard to hear the 409's over the BBC. As far as "truck motors", we use that term regularly in jest, such as " 10.32 at 130 in a 3700+ pound car ain't too bad for an old truck motor!!":)
Steven
P.S., we are working on fine tuning both cars for this season. Carl says the 9.68 he last ran in the hardtop was a really bad pass, and it has more. We are looking for 10.20's with the sedan. Truck Motors, HA!

[jim_ss409]

Great clips!:clap
8,400rpm!:eek: Those truck motors can really haul!

[CDNpontiac409guy]

Aubrey,
Were you referring to me as the other member? !

Yes, that would be you, Steve:bow :D

Here's a direct link to the particular clip that Steve is referring to:
I listen to it daily:deal
http://www.wullybully.com/crousemoyer.MPG

:coffee:

[MK IISS]

Aubrey: Why is it...that 409s have that great unique sound?

[Loafer409]

AWWWsuuumm, simply "efing" awsume!!!!:clap :clap :bow :bow

[Loafer409]

Great clips!:clap
8,400rpm!:eek: Those truck motors can really haul!


===

Ain't that what truck motors are sposed to do???

[CDNpontiac409guy]

Aubrey: Why is it...that 409s have that great unique sound?

No doubt !
I think it's the exhaust port layout. Something about everything fighting against eachother becaue of the extreme turn that the exhaust flow has to make in order to get out of the cylinder:dunno :p .... sounds like the voices of evil are tearing the car to pieces:eek: :beerbang
Kind of like a cammed up flathead V8 with open headers... sounds better yet:deal
No power. Just sounds good:brow

[MK IISS]

Aubrey: Thanks for your reply.

[Loafer409]

"Kind of like a cammed up flathead V8 with open headers... sounds better yet
"
====

Nothing sounds like a Flathead...:love :love




Said son your gonna drive me to drinking, if ya don't quit driving that Hot Rod Lincoln.....:cuss

[bluescreamer]

Aubrey
If you want more sound go to MANDRA.cc. Main page click on videos
them move mouse to the pictures. There are 4 62's on separate pictures
that are 409 powered. (Carl, Steve, Ray, and Allen)
If you turn up your sound and click on all the pictures, hang on to your
shorts. also do the parade.
Its the Mandra group at Cecil county I think last year.
Allen

[CDNpontiac409guy]

aaaww MAAAAAAAAANN ( big whine ):help

I tried everything here. MANDRA.cc. seems to go to the hosting company:dunno

You're KILLING ME, Allen:takethat ..... I gotta hear this stuff:bow :p

[fatride]

Quit sneekin around Aubrey! Can't see when your "ON"

[bluescreamer]

Aubrey
http://www.mandra.cc
Allen

[SS425HP]

One thing I noticed. Every run Steven made, every time I watch that clip, Steven wins!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just watched it 5 times, and he won all five!!!!!!!! That's impressive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fred

The Mandra site has some good clips, too.

[MK IISS]

Fred: Good photo of you on mandra.cc

[CDNpontiac409guy]

AAALLRIGHTYTHEN!!!

There's been some updates since I was in there last.:deal

DEFINITELY... the big deal IS a 409 car running by itself... without unnecessary noise interference:bow

[dq409]

goosebumps ,,,,, all i can say again is goosebumps:clap :clap :cheers :cheers

I THINK I`LL GO HAVE A CIG AND A BEER AFTER THAT !! WHO NEEDS SEX !!!

MAN O MAN !!! I Gotta make it to see this live someday !!!

I`m gonna sell everything and get one of those !!!

I could go on and on ,,, Nothing better !!!! I need some nitro pills :rofl

Thanks for the smile :D

[dq409]

OK,,, twenty minutes later and still goosebumps !!
Watched all the videos including Allen and man O man !!!

I NEED MORE SPEED !!! This is flat wrong to do this this time of year :cry

Makes me wanna go un-mothball the 62 !!!:beerbang

[Steve "wully bully"]

If you guys watch the video's from the MANDRA website, you will notice many cars worth mentioning. In the parades, the two big Pontiacs have Poncho engines. The orange '51 chevy has an Olds, runs 9.60's, at 3300+ lbs. The dragster that I am running gave me a freebie, he red-lit. His wife is running against Allen, in the former Jim Sellers' owned, Jim Mackenzie driven "Prehistoric Rat" '62 sedan. It is powered by a real potent SBC now. The dragster is owned and driven by Bobby Crouse, the club president. He was #1 qualifier, and won Jr. Fuel B at Bowling Green last year.
Steven
P.S., we gave up on the 8400 rpm, we now only run them to 7600!:)

[dq409]

Steve, Mandra sure seems like a lot of fun. Seems like a great idea with lots of great cars and members !!
Looking at the photos and videos there are some pretty darn nice and fast cars in the group.
I was reading around on the web site and was wondering about the points system. Are these points just between the members?
Are the Mandra races held in conjunction with other races at the track or are they just races for members?
What would be the best race on next years schedule to attend?
Thanks Steve !!

BTW, there is a certain member here that got an article and front pag picture on a regional car mag !!:clap
I`ll give him a little more time to post about it ,,THEN,, I will do it for him,,dq

[SS425HP]

Jim, there were a lot of MANDRA cars at Bowling Green last year. Several at the Indy Good Guys. Quite an organization. Would love to run with them more, but they run too far away to do it consistently. They do put on a good show, though. Saw the Blue Screamer run a 10.47 at Cecil County, and Denny Ford ran 10.50 there, too. You ought to move out this way. A lot of racing, and a lot of 409s. Within 150 miles, I have a choice of 7 tracks. 3 within 35 miles. You can do a lot of racing around here!

[Steve "wully bully"]

Jim,
MANDRA is a great group of people and cars. A group of us formed the club in Jan. 1999, in Carl's garage. Carl was VP, and I was Sec./Treas. for the first five years. The core group was running in another regional organization, that was falling apart, so we got together and formed MANDRA. Allen has been involved since day 1. He has the distinction of being the only member to have competed in every event run (that amounts to about 75 races so far). We run two classes to start, devided by E.T., until there is one overall winner. The group usually runs during a regular race day, or time shot day, but always in it's own class (members running members only). We hold an annual banquet at the end of the season, and give trophies to the top three in points. We also give plaques to the winner, R/U, and two semi-finalists at each event.
Steven
P.S., the best race of the season to attend is Cecil County in Oct. By the end of the season, everybody is dialed-in, the track is about 50' above sea level (I think), and the weather is usually very good. That is the event Fred was at. If you can make it two weekends, the Saturday before, the East Coast Nostalgia Super Stock Assoc. ( www.ecnssa.com ) is holding it's Spectacular at Atco, another fast sea-level track. That is where Carl ran the 9.68 last season. They get about 40 N/SS cars of all makes there.

[Ronnie Russell]

Fred, Sure you have a lotta drag strips up there. There has to be. You guys and girls only have a few weeks of the year to race up there. The white stuff is on the ground most of the year. Hope the stuff melts by June. :rofl

[SS425HP]

Heck, Ronnie, we have seen very little snow up here this year. It's been cold, but not much snow. Season starts in April. Some tracks have test and tune in March.. Just depends on temps. Run up into October, at least. Then we have time to redo the engines for the next year. Not too bad. I have so much to do, I'm worried about being ready in April. Trying to find a way to get 12" slicks in the stock wheel wells, and maybe a JATO bottle for Clay City. You see, I have this little wager on the 60' line. Thinking all this might help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[fatride]

Heck, Ronnie, we have seen very little snow up here this year. It's been cold, but not much snow. Season starts in April. Some tracks have test and tune in March.. Just depends on temps. Run up into October, at least. Then we have time to redo the engines for the next year. Not too bad. I have so much to do, I'm worried about being ready in April. Trying to find a way to get 12" slicks in the stock wheel wells, and maybe a JATO bottle for Clay City. You see, I have this little wager on the 60' line. Thinking all this might help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How about a bottle of NoDoze :rolleyes:

[JIMS409]

Gang, this article addresses this isue nicely. Worth the read...:coffee:

http://www.businessweek.com/autos/content/feb2006/bw20060206_455357.htm

[Bam59]

thanks, to me it was a very good article.

[dq409]

Thanks Jim !! An article written by someone who actually knew something about our cars!!!:clap

I also think it was very well written !! Short but full full of true facts !!:D ,,dq

[dq409]

Thanks to Steve also !! What a great group of racers ! I wish you guys were closer so I could make some of your races. Maybe some day I`ll fly out and have some fun watching all the action.
I`ll have to contact garbageman and see if we can get a group started here.
We`ll call it WONDRA !!! heee heee
Washington,Oregon,Nastalgia Drag Racing Assoc !!!:bow ,dq :D

[real61ss]

"Thanks Jim !! An article written by someone who actually knew something about our cars!!!

I also think it was very well written !! Short but full full of true facts !! ,,dq"



Not to start a disagreement but I just can't agree with you. I'm not that familiar with the other models that are addressed but the author of the article needs to research the 61SS, or perhaps he's been reading the material that we've been trying for years to get corrected. As the saying goes, "there's some truth in most everything".
The article states;
"It was a complete deal, comprising of exterior badges against the Impala crest on the quarter panels, bucket seats, floor shift trim plate, a steering mounted tachometer, a passenger dash grab handle, special trim and a modified LPO 111 suspension package, power steering, power brakes, and wheel covers. The origins of this package came from a show car."

I don't know what a LPO 111 option was but there were no buckets seats in a 61SS:nono1:
"The 1961 SS Impalas weren't standardized in appearance. You could order the package on a four-door car, a six-cylinder powered coupe or you could go "top drawer" and get a slant back sports-roof with the hot 348 engine."

The 1961SS was available in a four door but not with a 6 cylinder:nono1:

"Nineteen sixty-one SS Impalas were scarce with only 453 made. As for an SS 409, you'd have better luck meeting Elvis because only 142 made it. The transmissions were either Powerglide, Warner T-10 or the three-speed standard."

There's some truth here but it would be very confusing for someone who wasn't familiar with cars. I'm not sure if he's referring to the 61SS or the 61 409 motor. Although the 409 was available in the 61SS, it was also available in any other 61 body style. The author is correct about the 142 409 motors being built but I'm not sure what he's referring to when he speaks about the transmissions. The 61SS with the 348/305 was available with the heavy duty Powerglide however, the 61 409 was not available with the powerglide while the 61SS was not available with the three speed.:nono1:

People read this stuff and don't know better, first thing you know it's spread around and people believe it cause they read it.

[Ronnie Russell]

We probably read stuff like that for the entertainment value, Tommy. If a member needs a question answered about a 61SS , he or she knows exactly who to ask. Personally, I dont believe the printed word. Call me a skeptic, I guess I am. But if I know a guy that owns a true 61SS , if I have a question, I can call Tommy and say " hey,Tommy, walk out there to your car and see if your car has this or that. Not "blowing smoke", it is just fact. It does not hurt the fact that you also have amassed most of the real and true facts also from your research. You probably dont like to be called "expert", but as far as I am concerned, You are our expert on the 61SS.:brow

[real61ss]

Ronnie,
Thanks for the kind words, you're right, I don't like being called an expert on anything because I'm not. However, I have been fascinated by these cars for the past 45 years, I have studied them for years and I continue to learn about them. The 61SS is surrounded by mystery, rumors and myths about the SS's were started by and continue to be fueled by articles of this kind that have been printed in national publications.
People read these articles and naturally believe them.

[dq409]

OK, FINE !!! WAP ME :takethat

Ronnie is right ! When it comes to the 61, which I believe is the hardest to be knowledgeable about, you are the man !!:brow
So I should take back what I said,,, But he did get most right about the 409 I believe. I`m far form a expert on any of this,,dq

[Dan Hunt]

1958 was the year the impala became top of the line not 59???

[MK IISS]

Technically a 1958 Impala, unlike later years, is a Belair...that is part of the Belair series. http://1958chevrolet.tripod.com/id1.html

[models916]

Impala was a Belair in 58. Just like the Delray was a 210 until 58. 1959 Impala was a model onto itself.

[JIMS409]

Oooops? I just posted link to share.:dunno Thought it a morale booster for this thread. Fact checker, Accuracy? I'm no expert either guys...:doh

[MK IISS]

Jim: Your "memory lane" link was correct on the '58-'59 Impala. Articles on the '61 SS are never correct. We are very lucky to have Tommy as a member. You can also search the link for other great auto/truck articles. The story on the 2007 Toyota truck was interesting. Thanks for posting it.

[real61ss]

Jim, Dq,
I didn't mean to put a damper on the article. We are very lucky to have members here who specialize in certain areas, yes, I have researched the 61SS's but that's my speciality, thats about all I know. DQ, Aubrey, Fred and most everyone else here has forgot more than I'll ever know about motors, heck, what I know about a motor could be put in a sewing temble. Richard has a memory that surpasses anything I've seen. So, together, this group can rip up most anything but if we share our knowledge, we can help each along the way. Thank you for sharing the link to the article, it was interesting reading.

:hug

[dq409]

I did jump the gun on liking that article ! It was the way it was written I think.
Shoot, I don`t know diddly but listen often and retain very little,,,

CRS,,,dq

[ratkiller]

[QUOTE=droptop62]Although I sense that you are feeling a little tense about this discussion,........
I will ask anyways.
What are you basing this opinion on?
How could a car that is eight years older in technology be a better car?


Cuz no matter how you dice it up the 62' 09 was the bad daddy that started it all.

It was the thunder that stole the show and the heat that boiled blood. Never heard a song wrote over some late 60's iconic figure. Or just the fact that your Chevelle against a Z/28, 350 Nova or just about any Buick would get worked over any day of the week.

You're trying to tame the fire of the beast that pushes peoples emotions through campionship traps. And I will assure you will eat your words on a late 60's early 70's holding more value over an early chevy. Shiat, I'd even take a 61 389 Ventura and walk all over your Chel-lead with over all build quality and an engine that will outflow that old and tired 454 at any RPM.

I look at so many gear heads with their Nova's, Stangs, and any late model Chevelles thinking, man why so vanilla? Out of all the ways to show how you stand apart you've settled for mediocraty... That reminds me I need to go talk to guy sitting on that 61 Starfire.

So anyhow call it want you will, Truck engine or not my 409 sure is fine...

[1958 impala]

The 1958 belair Impala was the first Impala in production yes it is known as a 1958 Impala it was the first in the impala line:cheers