Need some help

[mac1]

Hello everyone. I just purchased a 65 truck 656 409 and have a couple of questions. I plan replacing my 327 with this motor.

1) Will the 65 truck oil pan fit in an X frame car?

2) Will my 327 bell housing and flywheel work on this motor?

3) Can I install a 600 cfm Edelbrock on 3844472 CI manifold? Spacer required?

4) and lastly, will roller style rocker work with stock truck valve covers?

Thanks in advanced. I'm sure I'll have many more questions in the near future.

[Rockfish39]

Hello everyone. I just purchased a 65 truck 656 409 and have a couple of questions. I plan replacing my 327 with this motor.

1) Will the 65 truck oil pan fit in an X frame car?

2) Will my 327 bell housing and flywheel work on this motor?

3) Can I install a 600 cfm Edelbrock on 3844472 CI manifold? Spacer required?

4) and lastly, will roller style rocker work with stock truck valve covers?

Thanks in advanced. I'm sure I'll have many more questions in the near future.

1) Yes
2) Yes PS>> You may want to re-balance your reciprocating assembly with the flywheel you plan on using. Otherwise you are gambling with a potential vibration problem
3) Not directly, will require spacer
4) Yes

Hope that helps you
Rock :cool:

[mac1]

Thanks Rock. One more questions please.
Does the WP and crank pulleys, 8" harmonic balancer and generator and PS brackets off the 327 interchange as well??? If not, where do I find these parts?

[Ronnie Russell]

mac, You will want to check flywheel diamiter when you take it apart. The flywheel that uses the 10 in. clutch will not reach the starter. The 8 in. balancer will not work (hits the water pump) The power steering pump bracket can be modified to work, but Showcars sells a replacement bracket as well the other parts you may need. Also Phil Reed can supply these. Good luck

[Rockfish39]

:cool: Thanks Rock. One more questions please.
Does the WP and crank pulleys, 8" harmonic balancer and generator and PS brackets off the 327 interchange as well??? If not, where do I find these parts?

Mac,
Our good friend from the Lone Star state is right... I was assuming the 327 flywheel to be of the 11" clutch variety. To answer your other questions

1) WP and crank pulley will fit, BUT you have to use a '58-'63 348/409 water pump in order for that arrangement to work (GM# 3765787).

The '64-'65 water pump (GM# 3850141) pulley mounting flange extends out from the block an additional 3/8" than the earlier pumps do and requires the use of a special water pump pulley (very rare and hard to find).

Balancer: Ronnie is right, 8.0" wont fit. But a 6.75" Steetdamper will work just fine.

Brackets: won't interchange. You'll just have to plunk down some $$$ for new ones

Phil Reed: Classic Motors in Kansas City can help you with most ALL of your 409 shopping needs
tell him Rockfish sent you!

Rock :cool:

[mac1]

Thanks for the info guys. You have saved me allot of time and $$$.
One last question, (I know, I said that last time), :rolleyes: Anyone know of a GOOD 409 engine rebuilder in the southern California area??? I really don't want to take it to any machine shop. (BTW, I have an 11" flywheel on the 327 and I will make sure it gets balanced) Thanks.

[Rockfish39]

Ross pistons is a big supplier of custom 348/409 pistons

They are loated in El Segundo... Very close to you. Look up the phone number and give them a call, and Im sure they can point you towards a shop that can satisfy your "W" machining requirements.

Good Luck!

Rock:cool:

[bignbad60]

If the rockers you refered to in your post are full rollers than you more than likely will have to run a spacer under the stock valve cover. That was my experience anyway. Sowcars sell inexpensive steel spacers that do the job , or you would need the taller aftermarket covers.
Tim

[models916]

I run full roller rockers on screw in studs on 333 head under a stamped sheetmetal valvecover with a stock gasket. No problem with clearance. Show Cars sells a thick Valve Cover gasket if it is close.

[1958 impala]

Mac
Ive had sucess with Jacks machine shop in Las Vegas its a bit of a drive but well worth it he has done many W moters just done a 422 block and 690s for me very happy, just walk in ,the trophys in his shop give you a clue as to how good he is.
good luck with your project:cheers

[mac1]

Ross pistons is a big supplier of custom 348/409 pistons

They are loated in El Segundo... Very close to you. Look up the phone number and give them a call, and Im sure they can point you towards a shop that can satisfy your "W" machining requirements.

Good Luck!

Rock:cool:

Actually, I found someone in El Segundo. Fernando at El Inca Racing. He's been building 409/348's since he was a kid. He knows how to properly bore out a W block. Iv' leaned it's more difficult than doing the other blocks.
I'd like to draw on your collective wisdom here, as I only want to do this once. Are there any recommendations for this build that you are willing to share. What I have is a 65 656 truck block with 333 heads. What i want to build is a streetable motor with 9 to 9.5 to 1 compression so I can run it on 91 octane. I hear the AM stamped steel rockers are junk and I'd like to install some low profile??? roller rockers to clear the stamps steel valve covers. What do you think of using screw in studs as opposed to pressed in? I'd like to get 300hp out of it if I can. Any advice or tips would be appreciated. Mac

[jim_ss409]

A lot of us are running the Scorpion roller rockers. They seem to work very well and they're reasonably priced. I don't think you'd have any clearance problems with most valve covers. As far as I know they only hit the high performance dripper style valve covers. For those that don't know, the dripper valve covers have metal spot welded to the underside that makes the oil drip down onto the valve train. I think the 333 heads will have 3/8" pressed in studs and I think they'd be fine as long as you stay with a reasonably mild cam. The high performance heads also used 3/8 studs but they were also pinned to the head with a roll pin. If you do decide to go with the screw in studs go up to 7/16" that's the size that the regular big block comes with.
Curt Harvey's in California. He doesn't build engines anymore but he still sells parts by mail order. He's a great guy to talk to for expert advice on these engines, He's probably built a thousand or more. You can find his website in the links section.
By the way even with a really mild cam you're gonna have more than 300hp.:deal

[Impalaguru]

I would highly reccomend buying all the correct 409 clutch linkage and the correct bellhousing. I put a 409 in place of the 327 in my old 63 SS and ran into lots of problems. The 409 in 62 and 63 used a different bellcrank and lower rod. The fork is unique in that it uses a swivel pin in the end of it. I'm not sure in 62, but the 327s may have used this set up also, and if thats the case, your linkage may work.
If you can track down an original bellhousing you'll be certain to get the right geometry. The 409 would have had an aluminum, flat-bottom bellhousing (#553). They're expensive and tough to find. I would look for an iron #552 bell. Its nearly identical save for a couple minor points. For my old 63 SS I bought one at a swap meet for $20 and painted it with aluminum paint!
I can get some measurements off of my 409 clutch linkage if you want to compare it to what you have.
Ross

[mac1]

Thanks Jim, Then I'll probably stay with the pressed in studs as I don't plan on doing any racing. Scorpion rollers sound like a good choice and they won't break the bank. :p
Thanks Ross, I have a 697 aluminum bell housing with the closed bottom, an 11" clutch and a 168 tooth flywheel. I also am using a modern style clutch fork that has the large center dimple instead of the 90 degree swivel that the 62 had, so hopefully I won't run into any problems there. As far as linkage rods, I will fabricate my own if I run into problems. I actually welded spherical rod ends on the pedal and z bar swivel points to "smooth out the pedal action". :D

[Impalaguru]

Sounds like you've got it all figured out, Mac! With your style bellhousing you'll need to specify a starter for an automatic application 409 or just get a 396/427 starter. Should be available at just about any parts store. Best of luck!!
Ross

[LongIsland63SS409]

Mac,

Good luck with the 409!

Draws big crowds at all the car shows.


Mike

[mac1]

Another question. Will this 3844463 "high performance" aluminum intake manifold work with low performance 333 heads???

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-9/394748/3844463intake.jpg

[Dond409]

Nope, too much of a mismatch in the ports.

[mac1]

Thanks, I was afraid of that. BTW, the 463 is listed in Colvins by the numbers as a 63-64 400 hp with ps option. Mac

[gearhead409]

don't look like no 468 to me.

[Dond409]

For some reason I thought the last number should be an 8 instead of a 3. Checked casting number section here. I was thinking of the 678 that doesn't have the power brake option

[gearhead409]

Hey, i get screwed up sometimes. too many numbers to remember!

[models916]

That manifold will bolt up and work as poorly as it did on the 690 heads. Instructions on C Harvey's site on blocking the middle port bolts with set screws and using Hi-perf gaskets. Same or less HP as the iron 348/409 truck intake, but about 100 pounds lighter. Large port mismatch. But you can use it. Just grind the ears off or run 2 valve cover gaskets and glue a bolt head to the slot. I used the Offenhauser 2x4, still available new.

[models916]

Questions page you should read



http://www.mr409.com/faq.html

[mac1]

So the general consensus is don't use this manifold? :dunno
I'm not a fan of cast iron manifolds. What aluminum intake can I put on these 333 heads? Does anyone make an aftermarket one? Mac

[models916]

Offenhauser dual quad is all that is out there at a light price. Factory tri-power is iron but runs extremely well. Factory iron 4bl with a trans-dapt adapter to AFB makes good street power, but heavy. factory aluminum low-perf single intake is around $700 when you see one and is not the best on flow but light. For the money Offy 2x4 with AFBs is hard to beat and runs well. Used 600 AFBs are around $135 x2 and the intake is under $400.

[Tom Kochtanek]

There are even a couple of aftermarket aluminum manifolds that support four 2 barrel carbs and six 2 barrel carbs. Not sure what you are looking for, and IMHO all the multiple carb options look sharp. Not sure how these would perform with 333s, but they'd sure look unique :).

Best,
TomK