Grumpy

[Ronnie Russell]

I will attempt to get a few minutes with Mr. Jenkins Friday at the drag strip. If so, my primary question will be to test his memory on the 1962 aluminum equipped cars. If I am able to get a few minutes with him, have any of you got other questions that you want answered? Cant promise anything, but I will do my best.

[JimKwiatkowski]

Ronnie,be sure to take your camara and have someone take a photo,of you and Grumpy :dunno

[MK IISS]

Ronnie: If you get a chance I believe an interesting question would be: Was the Dave Strickler Old Reliable III (1962 Impala SS with alum front clip which I believe ran in B/FX) factory built with the alum. front clip? As you know the Old Reliable I was the '61 Biscayne 409...the Old Reliable II was the '62 Belair Sport Coupe 409, which at times was run with an alum front clip but it wasn't factory built that way...and of course the Old Reliable IV was the 1963 Z11.

[SS425HP]

Ronnie,be sure to take your camara and have someone take a photo,of you and Grumpy :dunno

Yeah, Ronnie, and be sure to mark which one is Grumpy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:rofl :rofl :rofl

[4onthefloor]

Ronnie...start out talking about Linda Vaugn..(NO bs) and then get a quick question in...he didn't get that nickname for nothing but talk about Linda always seems to liven him up I am told...

[wrench]

My question......WHY did he do that silly centerfold?

:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

[skipxt4]

Looking at Linda Vaughn would liven up anybody. If those T-3's (^^ ):brow didn't do anything for you, you're a deadman walking.:rofl :rofl Skip:)

[Ronnie Russell]

" off to see the Wizard"........... winds are 35 mph. Hope it is not a wasted trip.

[Ronnie Russell]

Okay, here goes. Arrived at drag strip at 10 a.m. Went to Jim Yates pit. Nobody there. Sat on a light pole base and waited. Kurt Johnson pitted next door. Noticed Kurt helped crew errect trailer awning. Kurt left in Buick rent car and returned with much ice and food for crew. W.J. came out of trailer, looked around , and went back in trailer. Last I saw of him. Greg Anderson and Jason Line pitted on the other side of Yates. At 10.30 , Greg Anderson and Jason Line were working on therir cars. Just them two. No other crew members in sight. Nobody else in sight, except me , sitting on the light pole base. Two local yokels walk up and yell at Greg Anderson. " Hey, would you autograph this poster?" Greg Anderson put s his tool down and with a big smile, walks over and signs the guys poster. Wishes the two guys a good day and returns to work. No cameras, no people, no reason to be nice. I have spent two years dis-liking the guy because he has been beating up on W. J... How can you dis-like someone like that? I am now a Greg Anderson fan. Action speaks louder than words. 11 a.m. Jim Yates and crew pulls in. I ask Jim Yates if it might be possible to ask Bill Jenkins a question when he gets there. Jim says, " Sure, it might be a couple of hours, but drop back by." Leave to buy a Coke. $4.00 Come back and sit on my light post base and wait. 1 p.m.,,,,, I notice a guy with a Jenkins T-shirt on walk into pits. I look aroung and there he is;. Bill Jenkins walking into pits, very, very, very slowly. I say " Mr Jenkins, could I ask you one question, please?" He ignores me. He puts key in trailer door. I ask," Mr Jenkins, Can I ask a question about 409s , please?" He says . "What?" I say , " Much has been documented about the 1963 Z-11s, but I would like to know if Chevrolet produced any 1962 Chevys with aluminum front ends, or were they built with over the counter parts?" He replied, " 50 were made by Chevy, all produced at Baltimore." Well, I had to be sure. Did he mis-undertstand me about year model? I had to be sure. I asked, " Mr Jenkins, Are we talking about 1962 cars and Not 1963 Z11s?" Mr. Jenkins did not like that question. He raised his voice and said , " 50 1962 Impalas produced by Chevy with aluminum parts, ALL made in Baltimore and I got two of them!!!". And with that , he was gone. I had several questions that I wanted to ask, but that did not happen. I had our web-site address written on a piece of paper, and wanted to offfer that to him and ask him to visit during the long cold winter months. That did not happen. Pictures??? No way!!! But of one thing I am sure of. There were 50 1962 Chev. Impalas produced with aluminum front ends by Chev. Richard, I think it is safe to say that Strickler recieved at least one of those cars. I am also convinced that Buddy Taylor also bought one from Friendly Chev. Dallas and exchanged parts , ( as he told me he did). Where are the rest? That would be the next question for Grumpy. So much history. So much knowledge. Why doesnt a magazine editor assign a writer to do a Bio on Bill Jenkins and record some of the history and stories before it is too late? Oh well, I did the best I could and even though there are many unanswered questions, I feel that I did get a definite answer to the 1962 aluminum front end car question. There were indeed 50 of those cars built. Where are they now? I dont have a clue. Wouldnt that be a nice "barn" find? BTW........ temp was 96 degrees, high humidity, slick track. First round qualifing was a joke. I left before 2nd round. But let me tell you, there aint nothing like Texas women in 96 degree temps. Them girls sure know how to dress. ( or un-dress ) It was a good day. :brow :brow :) :)

[Rusty Everitt]

Hey Ronnie,
I was talking to an old friend that dropped by a couple of days ago and he told me that Buddy Taylor's 62 is still in Garland. He is suppose to be getting his number for me so I can go have a look. How are things going with you?
Rusty (Dallas)

[Ronnie Russell]

Rusty, Buddys 62 bubbletop is in Barrys storage building. If you have found one of the Impalas, then this will be big news for Barry. Let me know, please. Me??? Things could not be better. ( Would like to lose about 30 years ) :) :)

[JimKwiatkowski]

Ronnie,did you take any photos of the Texas Women :) :dunno

[MK IISS]

Ronnie: Thank you for talking to Mr Jenkins for me/us. Sorry...I guess he could have been a little nicer.

[SS425HP]

Ronnie, look at the bright side. You learned 2 new things. You learned that there were some 62 Chevys built at the factory with the aluminum front ends. And, you learned why he is called Grumpy. A good day.

[Ronnie Russell]

Richard, I was not surprised at Jenkins demeanor. Yates gets paid to be nice to spectators, Jenkins does not. We got the answer we wanted , (twice) so thats what counts. Jim, I took very few pictures. My camera is not high quality. One of the attached pics. is Grumpy, ( in front of car with back towards me) No hat!!! Always had the cigar though. The other pic is showing my years of experience at Ennis. Notice the 3 bars directly in front of me. Below that is the entrance and exit for that section. I must look DOWN to view who is coming and going. STRAIGHT DOWN. if you get my meaning. With a good camera , I could have taken a pic. of the person standing at the fence, black top and blue jeans. That would have been a good picture. But of course I would not do that because I was there to watch racing.......:rofl :rofl After down-sizing several times, I was still not able to attach photos. I will e-mail to Jim Kwi.

[JimKwiatkowski]

Ronnie,here's your photos I resized them,the photos have to be under 100kb to post them.

[MK IISS]

Ronnie: I appreciate what you did but, you know.... you probably had more important questions of your own you wanted to ask him. I really feel bad you were not able to do so.

[Ronnie Russell]

Richard, No, not at all. I would have asked if he used the Chevy rear-end in the 1963 car, or did he change to something else. Would have asked about chassis mods. also. Having also wondered about the 62 cars myself, I think that was the most important question to ask. So much documentation on the 63 Z11 and very little about the 62s. I think that one question and answer was the best choice. I hate rumors as much as the next guy. The answer coming from Bill Jenkins mouth was good enough for me. Heck, I know little about history. Didnt even know there was a plant in Baltimore. Even though his answers were short, they were all emphatic. No hesitation. No need to give it thought. Man, what a guy could learn with a 1 hour sit-down with Bill Jenkins. Maybe it will happen one day and hopefully be recorded. :)

[wrench]

Good job Ronnie.

Does it mean that the Zintsmaster 62 Impala may be a factory built car? I wonder where it was built?

Also, wouldn't there be some records of those 62's in some fashion? Be nice to know where they went.

Thanks for the effort and info!

[MK IISS]

There was an article a couple years ago in Chevy Rumble magazine, with several photos, about the Zintsmaster 1962 409 Impala SS. This car is supposed to be a factory built Impala with the alum front clip. Included in the photos was a picture of the original factory window sticker which did not list the alum body parts. In fact, as I remember it, there wasn't a photo of any documentation that the car came from the factory with the alum front end. I thought this was strange since it was the most unique feature of the car. This seems to be the case with all these 62 cars....no documentation.

Ford also built some 1962 F/X 406 cars with fiberglass body parts...fenders, hood, doors, trunk lid and alum bumpers. I saw one on display at Floyd Garretts a few years ago. It had all kinds of documentation proving it was factory built.

[rstreet]

I was at a car show today in Easton,MD.,Their fall classic and the 61 did well and won it's class but during conversation the actual Number of Z-11's came up. How many of them have been "documented" as still around?

[4onthefloor]

For what its worth...the 63 Pontiac Super Duty did NOT mention the aluminum on the window sticker either...it DID list the Super Duty option which was a ton of money. When I questioned Jim Mattison about this he stated that you could have steel OR aluminum with the SD package for the same cost. The build sheet shows the aluminum.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v140/Belair62/wheels/SDWindowsticker.jpg

[Tom Kochtanek]

Last weekend I purchased a new (2006) book at Borders, entitled "Extreme Muscle Cars: The Factory Lightweight Legacy" by Bill Holder and Phil Kunz. Included are forewards from Dick Brannan, Arnie Beswick, and Hayden Proffitt. The book is dedicated to "Dyno Don" Nicholson.

It covers all the major brands, including AMC, Chevy, Dodge, Ford, Mercury, Plymouth, and Pontiac, along with some "off-shoot" lightweights (non-performance builds). Lots of pictures (read it in one sitting, much to the wife's dismay...) and some good info I was not aware of. A few mistakes here and there (389 horses on the 1962 409 with the single four barrel, instead of "380", that sort of thing. Six pictures alone of the Zintmaster car. Several of the "Old Reliables" (several years).

Here's an example of the text (with what we now know to be slightly inaccurate info):

"In July 1962, Chevy built about 25 aluminum front-end models to determine the effect the lightweight metal would have on the production process." No mention of Baltimore, or 50 sets. It did say that there were some sets sold over Chevy parts counters, but that these were quite limited...

Here's how Ford documented their fiberglass lightweights from 63: they put a "lightweight plate" inside the glovebox door, explaining that this particular vehicle did not meet Ford's high quality appearance standards:

"This vehicle has been built specifically as a lightweight competitive car and includes certain fiberglass and aluminum components".... (there's more on the plate). I'm guessing they didn't put those on the 62 and 63 Chevy lightweights :).

The authors did mention that " The lightness of the bumpers was sometimes demonstrated by them actually wrinkling up when a Z-11 was pouring on the coal". Then they go on and state that in late 1962 some 18 Impala drag cars incorporated some of the lightweight Z-11 aluminum parts. (Contradicts previous statements and lumps the "Z-11" notion to the aluminum parts, not the drivetrain).

A good read, even better pictures. Good two solid pages on Malcolm Durham and his Z-11 fitted Chevelle "Strip Blazer II". Made me want to learn how to use the hammer and dolly better :). And just a few weeks back a guy spotted my 62 SS and mentioned a guy her knows about 60 miles away who had a complete set of aluminum front fenders still in the box... Road trip?

Cheers,
TomK

[MK IISS]

Info on 1962 Ford Light Weight with "Documentation".

http:www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=110765

[oil4kids]

Grumpys statement about the 50 62's Z11 style cars assembled at Baltimore may have been true later in the 1962 production run
however I know of at least 2 black 62 SS Impalas that were shipped there aluminum parts and engine parts after delivery of the cars

One was Dick Harrells 62 SS as per statements of his mechanics and another was a car Called Black Thunder out of Jim Rathman Chevy in Florida- infact it might have been the first car to use a factory Z11 Cam ( a cam restamped to a gm number manufactured by a outside cam builder)

this photo is from the Dick Harrell site

[region rat]

I talked with Zintsmaster while he still owned the car. He said he called the factory and told them he needed something to help him run faster. It was the aluminum package. That car did not have Z-11 parts on the motor, according to him, since that was the first thing I asked him. I could have bought it, but didn't think it was worth $50,000. Which I didn't have anyway. Just about all he'd done to the car since 63 was remove the lettering. Less than a year after I passed it up, I watched the owner turn down $125,000 for it. I guess I have no vision. Bob

[region rat]

I had an oportunity to talk to the Grump when he worked for Lepone in the 80's. I asked Joe if the Grump had time to talk and he sent me into the trailer. I had all kinds of bs questions about rod length ratios and best combinations and what I learnrd was I didn't bring enough info for him to give me a good answer. He also said I was wasting my time because if he'd stayed with 09's he'd be a nobody. He showed me their computor and showed me the data they used and said this is where it's at, now. My reply was that I could never be good enough to build the fastest Pro stock but I could some day build a respectable 09. Then he wanted to know how much $$$ I was willing to spend and if I wanted to dump tons of titanium parts into it and a bunch of other stuff that made me realise I needed to do my homework before I asked again. When I left, I did wonder how he got the name, but I'm sure it was because I caught him when he wsn't really working. Bob

[MK IISS]

Bob: A well known Chevrolet historian, whose opinions I respect, told me, after much research, it appears all the factory built '62 Chevrolets with alum front clips were most likely Impalas ( I think he said they were SSs) and they had standard 409/409 engines. The "Z11" heads/intakes were not factory installed...they were dealer/owner installed after the car was delivered from the factory. The "50 built" reported by Bill Jenkins does not agree with anyone else's figures.

I still have no opinion on these cars.

[Ronnie Russell]

Richard, No mention was made about engines in my conversation with Jenkins. The question was only about aluminum front end cars. As far as his numbers not adding up to others memories.......... Someone else will have to accuse him of being wrong. :rofl :rofl Bob, I think you are correct in your observation about Jenkins. I did catch him at the wrong time. But after waiting for over two hours, I could not be sure there would be a 'right" time. And possibly he has gotten " grumpier " over the last 20+ years. :dunno

[SS425HP]

Ronnie, I take it you would vote him "The Best Ambassador for Drag Racing" award. Right????????????

[Ronnie Russell]

Fred, I would vote for the Grump as the engine builder I most admire and respect. Ambassador???? No :)

[SS425HP]

There is no doubt that he can put them together RIGHT. Kinda a shame all that knowledge is locked up and he won't let it out. Don't care about the today stuff, all we want is the yesterday stuff.

[MK IISS]

Ronnie: Please understand I am not disputing Mr. Jenkins "50" figure and I really appreciate you talking to him. All I ment was.... of all the info I've read and been told about these cars... this is the first time 50 has been mentioned. The most frequent figure is 20.

I said I don't have a opinion on these cars because there is just too much conflicting information on them. I believe they are a bigger mystery than the Mk II "Mystery Motor". I find it very strange no one, to my knowledge, has ever produced any factory printed documentation on these cars. It's all so-and-so said this or said that.

Ford built less than 20 1962 Galaxie lite weights and there is all kinds of factory documentation on them. Why not on the Chevrolets?

[Ronnie Russell]

Shoot Richard, I dont know what is true and what is not. I agree that is strange that there is no known documentation on the 62s. I only reported what I heard from Jenkins. Because he said it, does that mean that it is true? I dont know. Seems that he would be a good source, but maybe there are others. Hayden Profitt lives in this area. Maybe I could arrange a meeting some cold, winter day and learn more. This time I will ask directly about documentation. Try to get all the names and facts I can. Dont know if that would help, but it would be interesing . We will see...........

[rstreet]

Chevrolet wasn't in the documentation mode until later. I guess we will have to rely on Colvin for this one if he has seen any documentation. Also weren't some records lost due to a fire?? We will probably never know the correct number.

[MK IISS]

Ronnie: Chevrolet history is just of interest to me...it's not a passion like it is to real historians. If you get a chance to talk to Hayden Proffitt I'm sure there are more important questions than alum. fenders. I don't believe Mr. Proffitt raced a '62 Impala with the alum. front clip anyway. I didn't mean to imply documentation doesn't exist on factory built '62 alum cars. It's just that if documentation does exist.... no one gets to see it. There is documentation on the rare 1961 Impala Super Sports...we know how many were built... same for the '63 Z11s...why not the '62s Impalas with the alum front ends?

[troublemaker427]

Ronnie: Please understand I am not disputing Mr. Jenkins "50" figure and I really appreciate you talking to him. All I ment was.... of all the info I've read and been told about these cars... this is the first time 50 has been mentioned. The most frequent figure is 20.

I said I don't have a opinion on these cars because there is just too much conflicting information on them. I believe they are a bigger mystery than the Mk II "Mystery Motor". I find it very strange no one, to my knowledge, has ever produced any factory printed documentation on these cars. It's all so-and-so said this or said that.

Ford built less than 20 1962 Galaxie lite weights and there is all kinds of factory documentation on them. Why not on the Chevrolets?

Ford built 11 lightweight Galaxies in 1962. They were consecutive VINs and many think the last 11 1962s off the line. They were issued at the end of August. They were all sedans. Many of these were rebodied later with 1963 1/2 bodies. This includes Dick Brannan's and Gas Ronda's 1963 cars among others.

[Dick MacKenzie]

Hi Jody,

Are you & your dad going to Capitol this weekend?

[SS425HP]

Jody, does Strick have any recollection of the Chevy stuff that his Dad messed with. Like the 62 and 63, numbers stuff like you just mentioned for the Fords? Dave and Grumpy were pretty close for a while, and then it was split city. Just wonder if he could help clear any of this up.

[troublemaker427]

Yes, dad and I will be at Capitol Sunday. Looks like Mike Strickler will be with us. Mike does have some knowledge of the early Chevy years. He has a great photo collection also. Many of the photos are for sale if anyone is interested.

Recently, Hemmings Muscle Machine magazine has stated that Grumpy owned Dave Strickler's cars. Mike is a little disturbed by this. His dad owned all of the Old Reliable series of cars. Dave did drive some of Grumpy's "toys" on occasion as did Grumpy drive the Old Reliables sometimes. I'm sure you all know the relationship Dave had with Ammon R. Smith Chevrolet.

The 50 car figure quoted by Grumpy sounds very high to me. 20 sounds more likely.

Hope to see you guys at Capitol. Will you be there Dick? Filming??

[region rat]

If you need more info on aluminum parts, talk to Rusty Symmes. He's had several aluminum cars over the years and has done a ton of hands on research. They had a lot of trouble stamping inner fenders and gave up the idea after damaging dies. Bob

[Dick MacKenzie]

Will you be there Dick? Filming??

Jody, Not this weekend, Jimmy and Mark are in Toronto shooting the OSCA race and broadcasting it on the internet this weekend. The Boss (read wife) and I are going to a wedding. Will you be at MIR next weekend? Jim and I are doing a match race with the 422 "Dearborn Thunder" car there. You know, I'd like to get some footage of you and your dad.

[troublemaker427]

Dick,
We will be at MIR also. Dad and I are racing with the 422 guys too. This is a great time of year to race!!! FAST!!!!:cheers

See you there...

[SS425HP]

You guys on the east coast have it lucky. Not much left here for racing. You guys have it all. Heck, it costs me a fortune to get over there. Might as well move over there!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dick MacKenzie]

Fred,
I think Middletown OH beats Buffalo NY right now. Jimmy & Mark were on thier way to TMP for the OSCA race this weekend. Some where around Buffalo they had to get off the NY thruway due to all the snow.
Talk about a bummer of a race weekend!:rofl

[SS425HP]

I'll have to give you that one, Dick. Hard to get hold of the track through two feet of snow. In fact, it's hard to get to the track through two feet of snow.

[rstreet]

SS425HP
Come on over to us on the coast but bring your car!!!!Your are both welcome but taxes are cheaper up in MacKenzie's Delaware

[Dick MacKenzie]

Yeah Fred,
Three tracks within an hour of my house and you know the spare room is always available.

[SS425HP]

Dick, can I ask if that spare room is INSIDE??????????? Dick, I have 3 tracks within 35 miles of home. But, this is bracket racing territory. I know what we do is almost the same thing, but it's against the older cars and is more fun.

How much longer are the tracks running over there?

[Dick MacKenzie]

Dick, can I ask if that spare room is INSIDE???????????

How much longer are the tracks running over there?

Oh... You want inside? Yeah, we can work that out. :rofl

Question 2:
Cecil has a Summit race scheduled November 12 and test & tune through December 16th. They open the last week of February.

Atco has the Pan American Sportsman Series scheduled November 26 and test & tune through December 10th. Opening the first weekend in March

US 13 in Delmar DE is the earliest with Rich Maitre's RAM Racing Naturally Aspirated Series next weekend and E.T. racing the last weekend of this month.