Some little aluminum stuff

[SS425HP]

Some pictures from yesterday. 4 pictures of the aluminum head being mocked up for valve train. Then some of the block which is going to be made. Going to have BBC spacing for Crank center to cam center. Mains are going to be sized for BBC bearings. Can't tell you how many cubes will be available yet, but hang on to your hats. And the heads, the flow numbers will knock you over .

[SS425HP]

Some more pictures. They are working on this to make it a better block than chevy put out. BBC timing cover, too.

[SS425HP]

This is about it. Note on the heads, over the exhaust the initials. BWR. That is Bob Walla Racing. Bob is the man behind this. Wish him well. There is a lot planned here.

[Skip FIx]

Neat Stuff!!

[Dick MacKenzie]

Lookin' good, Bob!

[rstreet]

I hope this works out. The part I like is that there appears to be some engineering in the design which allows for interchangability on some of the hard to find or expensive parts we have to deal with.

[impalamike.com]

Man!! That stuff looks fantastic!! Is it December 25 already?!? Can't wait to see the block. Build a test engine and show what kind of horsepower that jewel makes!

[impalamike.com]

Are the new blocks going to be cast iron or aluminum? Or both?

[region rat]

Mike, and any one else that might like this, The first blocks should be aluminum, since that's what the first guys that said they'd buy one wanted, light weight and big inches. Most will be machined to accept a BBC pan, crank, and front cover, and let one use good, modern race bearings.Metal is there to use tha 09 parts also.Billet caps and ARP hardware should help keep parts off the track.
572 inches should be attainable, that's the resason for the heads.Can be had as a direct replacement for 690's but with better flow and a cnc race version later. Hope to get them on the flow bench this week. I'll get #'s posted soon as I get them. Thanks for asking. Region Rat

[Ronnie Russell]

" and anyone else that might like this" ?????????? Like nobody is interested!!! Bring em on, Bob. We are ready. :beerbang :beerbang

[SS425HP]

You know, Ronnie, all this stuff from a guy with a purple 64 409 Z-11 engine in it. Sure looks good, though. I SAW IT.

[Ronnie Russell]

Yea Fred, I think it is like " A Boy Named Sue".. If you drive a purple car, it had better be bad a**. And Bobs car is bad a**........ I did not realize, when in Kentucky, that Bob was going to turn the 409 world upside-down. Sure glad its taking place. The next few years are gonna be interesting, thanks to Bob. An all aluminum 572 cu. in. 409.... Yea, very interesting. All kinds of options. Maybe paint one orange, dress it " down ", install in 9 pass. StaWag.?? Yea, all kinds of options. Gonna be fun, for sure. :brow

[jim_ss409]

:bow A 572ci 409!!!:beerbang :bow Good flowing heads!!!:beerbang Way to go Bob!!!:clap

I can't wait to see the finished product. I noticed that you raised the valve cover lip up a bit. Good idea! I also think it was smart to use BBC sized mains, oil pan and timing cover.:cheers

[TomO]

WOW!!! Bob it sure is evident that you have a good plan in place to make the "W" step right into the current trend of "Bigger is Better". The use of BBC stuff was a great way to add a huge amount of flexibility into how the engine can be built.

I look forward to seeing the limits pushed at the track. I may have to make the trip to Clay City next year to see Walla's Outrageous "W" in action.

If I remember correcly you have something in the plans for the small port heads. I would be in line for a small port intake. I do not have to say "good" because it shows what ever you put out the door is top notch.

TOMO

[SS425HP]

Yea Fred, I think it is like " A Boy Named Sue".. If you drive a purple car, it had better be bad a**. And Bobs car is bad a**........ I did not realize, when in Kentucky, that Bob was going to turn the 409 world upside-down. Sure glad its taking place. The next few years are gonna be interesting, thanks to Bob. An all aluminum 572 cu. in. 409.... Yea, very interesting. All kinds of options. Maybe paint one orange, dress it " down ", install in 9 pass. StaWag.?? Yea, all kinds of options. Gonna be fun, for sure. :brow

Would really be a sleeper in a 4 door hardtop.:brow :brow :brow

[impalamike.com]

What is the maximum bore and stroke of the new block?

[impalamike.com]

Any ball park price of the new block?

[region rat]

Mike, The block will go 4.5 for sure, and should go 4.6 by the time we're done. A graet cheap combo,just because parts are more common now,would be 4.5 bore with 4.25 stroke. I hoping with a taller deck we can get a 4.5 stroke.All the blocks will have an exrta .200" on top. If you leave it on, the deck is same as a bbc. To make it standard 09, it's just some extra machining time.
Every time I turn around, the price of somethng goes up. I'm wanting to get the iron one down to $3500 and maybe $5-5500 for aluminum. Machining is tough. I think Rousch would do blocks but you have to do at least 30 at a time and they may want all of them done the same.I'd be lucky to sell 30 in 4 years. Time to cash in all those old beer cans..(I think I'm getting ulcers.) I have some heads to pick up at the foundry Saturday for anoher round of testing. Heat reating was done Tuesday but I haven't been able toget uo there. Thanks. Bob

[Skip FIx]

One of our Pontiac aftermarket cast iron blocks is having issues with soft Brinell testing, possibly soft cast iron. Not sure if the maker tested them when they got them from the foundry. Of course this came out when I have mine of that make sitting on the engine stand 3/4 assembled! So I'd be sure and check everything you can from the foundry.

Will the extra deck height mean you need a non factory intake or spacers?

Keep us all posted!

[CDNpontiac409guy]

All this talk of aluminum..... GAWD this is wonderfal stuff:bow :deal :cool:
The heads look great, and the block looks like it will follow suit.
Going to BBC main bearings, to me, is very wise. Seems that most of these engines are getting stroked anyhow, and this makes everything a direct drop-in. I like the big-a$$ bore size too:deal .
However, I am disappointed about the BBC oil pan and timing cover:cry . I suppose it's neccessary with the raised cam location, but I would think that one could utilize a set of smaller-diameter timing sprockets.
Just a thought. I guess I'm a little too loyal to the original... being a restorer at heart:dunno .

Oh yeah... about the raised cam. If I'm not mistaken, this will neccessitate a slight "adjustment" to the positioning of the lifter bores over the cam lobes... which will in-turn change the angle that the pushrods will ride over the lifters.
Positioning of these lifter bores will have to be very carefully calculated so that the existing phasing of the cam lobes is still dead-on. I'm SURE that this is nothing that hasn't already been addressed:bow

[region rat]

Aubrey, The block can be had both ways, if some one wants. I figured no one sees the cover when the water pump is on and 09 pans are getting pricey. BBC stuff will help a race guy save a buck but we can still go old skool. You're right about the stroking. Plus crank material on an 09 according to Jenkins was less than good.1051 I think. Cam can be in the stock location too. Just gotta get er done. Bob

[region rat]

Skip, Good suggestion on hardness. Lot of aftermarket iron is too hard for most machinists liking. We have a couple foundries we're talking too. Bob

[Skip FIx]

My new $2800 block may be too soft. A friend's Brinell tested 135-150. We'll run it and see. The "other" blocks are supposed to be around 220-240. I think DART etc are supposed to be around that. From what I hear the best "pour" for cast iron is in the middle and hard for small lots to get done that way. Tri Cast poured mine.It's going to be a 4.350 bore, 4.21 stroke Pontiac!

I've heard there are theories on wanting it softer-but then bores, mains, cams can move and rings not seat. Or too hard and doesn't absorb shock well.

Just be sure you get what you contracted for from the foundry.

I would think being able to drop in a BBC crank, timing set , cover and balancer would be a good deal. Be what I'd want to do

[ICTCROB]

Very nice! I've always loved the W head stuff. Seriously tho don't forget to check into raised roller cam tunnels, Large diameter lifters, and roller cam bearings. LSM engineering has plenty of good pics. Learn from today's pro stock tech. It's cool now to have cam tunnels bigger than the mains! Camshaft will make more HP than the crank.

Ditto on the material, looks like everyone is using some form of G3500 stuff.

You guys should call Bob Cacciotti at All Pontiac too talk to some guys that are in the same boat.

WWW.allpontiac.com

-Rob

http://www.lsmeng.com/

[Skip FIx]

All Pontiac and Bob are one of the Pontiac block makers. They have had issues and have worked hard to resolve them. They took over after the initial run of these blocks from another fellow that had alot of issues and resolved most of them.

Some of the issues are verifying wall thickness and cast iron strength. All Pontiacs blocks come with sonic testing sheets.

[region rat]

You guys are correct. I will contact the Poncho guys. I've talked to several guys involved in projects like this and all of them have been helpful with regards to what to watch out for. It really helps. Bob

[jim_ss409]

I remember Fred saying that the Pontiac guys have been really fast since they got their aluminum engine parts. The new 409 block and heads should help even things up again.:clap

[Skip FIx]

I'd gladly sell some 690s and a block for some better performance pieces.

[Skip FIx]

Heard Rousch does good work from the Pontiac guys.

[RCE1962]

Found a clip on Youtube about a 1966 chevy Impala with a 572.
Not an aluminium W engine but ...one day...it may be. Nice ride.:eek:

Look forward to future updates when you have them Region Rat. :clap

Copied shortcuts directly from the (website- owner of the clip).

High Band width

http://www.nelsonracingengines.com/videos/natural/nretv572impalahigh.wmv

Low Band width

http://www.nelsonracingengines.com/videos/natural/632BBCLow.wmv


It takes a few minutes to upload if on cable service.

RCE1962

[impalamike.com]

Yes, I saw that Impala also. He claims its a daily driver - nice car!! Sure would be nice to see a '58-'65 Impala (or Tri-Five, street rod, etc.) with an all-aluminum 598cid 409 (with 6-71 blower, twin turbos, Procharger, etc.)!! zzzzzzzzz I'm going back to sleep so I can keep dreaming! :D

[dq409]

Any new info on these parts and when they will be ready??????:dunno

[region rat]

Hey, DQ, Sorry for the slow response.A lot going on. Took 4 good castings to be machined earlier last month. Found some things to change to make them better.Valve cover rail needed to be moved and mods should be done this week. Then I need to go to a new core shop for the water jacket. The last guy wanted $50 a piece when they usually run $18. Other costs are getting higher too so it's taking more time. Model of the block is done but I'm trying to get the head done first. Money wise, the block is a looser, but the only reason I did the head was to help pay for the block. Fred posted the pictures here and was sure excited when he came down to see them. Should have some new castings in a couple weeks. We want all the bugs out before we try selling these. Bob

[impalamike.com]

Sounds great Region Rat! Keep the info coming (and parts...and pictures!). Any idea on a release date?

[jim_ss409]

I'm sure there's a ton of work involved with a project like this. It sounds like you're making progress though. Good luck!:cheers

[region rat]

Sorrry still no firm date. Hoping for a couple weeks. Everything in these needs to be right before they go out the door. Takes time to get it right. I'm putting the block on hold till the heads are done. Cross your fingers. Bob

[fatride]

If you have had the pleasure of meeting Bob you know that if anyone can see this through it would be himself,,,,,,,,,,,he always looks to me as if he is ready to pounce on something! :stooges

[region rat]

Come on Ray, Did you ever see me try to pounce???? I.m lucky if i can fall!.Rat

[Bob Core]

Call me sick or whatever, but I'd love to see that built within an inch of it's life at 494 cubic inches, topped with mechanical fuel injection, then hung on the back of a Can-Am McLaren.