Let The Build Begin [Archive] - 348-409.com Info Exchange

desapience

11-08-2006, 08:16 PM

Okay, it's been awhile since I hit these boards... the weather has been steadily improving (cooler in FL), and the day is fast approaching when my '55' Chevy, with the 409/446 gets taken apart, and totally revamped for the 2007 Show circuit.

My 446 stroker now has about 1,100 miles..., runs extremely strong, albeit if the weather is warmer than 90, it does run hot. However, I now have in my possession, a nice BIG custom made Griffen downflow, with 1 1/2' cooling tubes. I've put many many hours into polishing it to show standards... whew!

And, that new Griffen will soon be cooling my new 482 roller-stroker, which is already in long-block an awaiting only the receipt of another custom made Stef's oil-pan -- of larger capacity than the one on the 446.

And, there will be a "surprise" upgrade for the 482 that I'll be holding back from you all, until the car is done and pictures are taken!

I pick up the new "Godfather" 4L60E truck tranny, tomorrow -- all electronic, built to withstand 700 h.p. and similar torque. It will be governed by a custom programmed CPU, and throttle position sensor, with the "Secret Weapon" feature of a steering wheel mounted twin-paddle shifter, that communicates with the CPU via RF. No rachet shifters necessary. A simple column shifter to get it into drive, park or neutral, and once in drive, simply hit the manual/auto mode paddle, and shift up or down with the other thumb.

A F**D 9" -- 3.73:1 posi unit (w/rear disks) is also being considered for install... if there's time, it'll be done last.

I'll post pictures as the project moves along... but that won't happen for a couple weeks, minimum

So, until then I hope everyone has a Happy Thanksgiving...

God Bless

Denis

jim_ss409

11-08-2006, 08:37 PM

It sounds like you're going to be plenty busy over the next few months. I for one would enjoy reading any update posts that you submit. Good luck with the project!:cheers

Ronnie Russell

11-08-2006, 09:16 PM

I will guess that the surprise upgrade has the letters BDS somewhere on it. :brow

rwagon57

11-08-2006, 10:03 PM

Welcome back Denis, we've missed you. We love pictures!

our1962

11-10-2006, 06:41 AM

We'll I finally after much traveling have jioned 348-409.com. The 409 still isn't in the 62 if all goes well and the traveling stops. The install will be after the holidays!

It only took 20 months to get the 409/409 so what's a few more months of waiting for the install.

Our1962!!!!!!

Ted:)

Bam59

11-10-2006, 09:57 AM

Denis, glad you are back:clap if you need any help i'm just up the road.
mike

desapience

11-12-2006, 07:39 PM

Guys,

I've posted several pics here... This phase of the job is sorting out all the tranny stuff. Remember, I'm going now to a 'built' 4L60E -- all electronic 4-speed, w/lockup.

But, being that it's going into my streetrod '55', 409/482 (later), the tranny needs a computer control box. Also, being that I want the ability to shift it manually, but, without a bulky ole' primative-looking rachet shifter sticking to the floorboard-hump, I went further into it, with a steering-wheel mounted paddle shifter set-up, with an RF (radio-frequency remote) interface. Two pictures show the paddle-shifter hub-adapter already mounted to my steering column. It's a really straightfoward install, so long as you have the correct adapters.

The other pics are of the tranny itself, and all the "stuff" that's necessary to make it work. www.tciauto.com is the place to read more, if you like.

Needless to say -- there's a ton of spaghetti to deal with, with a 20-page install manual, and a 20-page software manual. To program the TCI box, you also need a laptop, and patience... Diving into something new like this is always a steep learning curve experience...

In the last picture: the upper left is the remote throttle position sensor. On the lower left is the paddle hub assembly and the remote RF interface box. Bottom center is the interface cable for programming the TCI TCU (tranny control unit). Upper right is all the 'spaghetti', and directly below that is the actual TCU (computer).

But, the end result should be a finger-touch method of slamming the tranny up or down the gears, at will. There are some pre-cautions... for, the computer/software does not guard you from total stupidity.

Enjoy the pics.. and questions or ideas are welcome.

I spent almost the entire weekend cleaning the garage, organizing "stuff", to make room for the upcoming WORK!!

Denis

dq409

11-12-2006, 07:51 PM

Welcome back Denis !!! Missed ya,,, that wheel looks great !!

You da man !!,,dq

skipxt4

11-12-2006, 09:49 PM

Welcome back Denis: By the looks of that steering wheel, are you gonna need clearance from an air traffic controller before you move the car? Nice work...:clap Skip :)

desapience

11-12-2006, 11:04 PM

Welcome back Denis: By the looks of that steering wheel, are you gonna need clearance from an air traffic controller before you move the car? Nice work...:clap Skip :)

Skip,

Thanks... the paddle shifter actually looks better in person, the pics do not do it justice.

Each paddle has a different control. Pulling up on the right paddle = upshifts, pulling up on the left paddle = downshifts, and they only function in "manual mode". The set-up comes with a simple rocker switch to trigger manual mode. I will "trick" this out a bit by placing a moment switch mounted in the end of the signal light lever to a dual-relay -- click for on, click again for off. Everything defaults to off when the ignition is turned off. There is also an "economy mode", that is seperately switched.

The manual mode is all electronic, whereas if you are not in manual mode, shifts can be made with the column shifter. The column shifter (in my case), is also used for "park, reverse, neutral", and uses the column mounted slide switch for neutral safety and back-up light switches.

The TCI controller is "smart". If driving along in manual mode, and in 3rd gear, and you come to a stop, the computer senses that and shifts the tranny into 1st gear without any input from the paddles.

I"ll update much more as I move along... learning to "adjust" the tranny with the laptop -- using the software -- is going to be explained in full -- in a couple months.

Also, can someone tell me what's happened to Fred? Everyone is using a picture avitar??? Best wishes and prayers to him...

Denis

Ronnie Russell

11-12-2006, 11:12 PM

Denis, Check " Announcement"" section and access thread " Fred Totten" it will describe health problems.

jim_ss409

11-13-2006, 02:14 AM

The paddle shift setup looks great!:beerbang

dq409

11-13-2006, 01:05 PM

desapience

11-14-2006, 07:37 PM

Geez, Denis,,, I figured that the reason you were missing from the forum was the guysin trench coats and dark glasses found you !!!!:D

Only you could adapt that paddle system on an old car like that !!!!:clap

Great job !!!

Hope to see this up close and personal some day,,dq

Guys,

Thanks for the kudoos..., but, there's lots more work to get done. My custom Stef's oil-pan will be here tomorrow. Great 409 "freak" there named Jake. If ever anyone of you needs a custom made 348-409 aluminum oil-pan for a fair price, call Stef's and ask for Jake... he's a 409 nut and an ole' Vietnam Vet like many of us here.

My 482 roller-stroker will be in my personal garage before Thanksgiving! At that point, I'll begin dressing it up with all NEW bracketry, pulleys, belts, etc.. (very little will be swapped out from the 446 already in my '55'. And, I'm working hard to get the "mystery upgrade" readied as well.

The present 446/700R4 combo will be removed from my '55' after Thanksgiving.

I have a streetrod guru buddy I met a few years back -- we know mutual people, etc..., he has a nice shop and does it all, professionally. Poor boy broke a tooth real bad and came to my office.. needs a nice expensive Pro-Cera "all-glass" crown... And, I need my nice F**D 9" installed. Sooooooooooo.... a little of this, and a little of that, and both things get done -- saving me a ton of time.

Things like that always seem to simply work out.

Denis

desapience

11-26-2006, 07:22 PM

I will guess that the surprise upgrade has the letters BDS somewhere on it. :brow

Ronnie,

Although the 'mystery' upgrade for my 409/482 has nothing with 'BDS' as part of it, my 3rd 409 stroker will, indeed, be an all-out 6-71 blower motor. That engine build, as you know, will be very expensive, but, it is now in the planning stages. I already have the block and heads for it.

The 409/482 is now in long-block, and would have already been in my garage had it not been for Comp-cams having sent the wrong length pushrods. The correct lengths were over-nighted, and the completed long-block engine will be in my garage by Tuesday or Wed. From there, it will get the final dressing-up.

I did make a last minute decision to go to hydraulic lifters, instead of the solids (for the comp-cam roller cam). IF this 482 engine does find its way into my '55', it will never be raced or face abuse -- albeit, it will get honked now and then. I did not want the maintenance headaches for this '55' showcar.

I say "IF" the 482 ever sees the engine bay of my '55' because it now runs so sweet, and so strong, that anything else would seem to be mere overkill.

When I complete the dressing of the 482, I'll post pictures and get feedback from you guys..., it will be completely done, right to the fanbelts and ready for install.

I am moving forward with installing the computerized 4L60E, with paddle shifter (which is already installed), as well as for the 9" F**d, and may also move the leaf srings into the frame-rails to get more tire width.

Whatever finally goes down with the decision to either keep the 446 or move up to the 482, I will have an extra stoker 409 hanging around and needing an engine bay....

I am also simultaneously beginning the process of planning out the '31' Chevy 5-window coupe build. The more likely engine for it is already built -- a clone 4-bolt ZZ430, which will sport a modern day tri-power set-up -- a Barry Grant sixshooter set-up, teamed with a Muncie 4-speed, etc... just the preliminary planning at this point. A 409 simply will not fit with the side hood panels in place.

Pictures will follow soon.

Denis

rstreet

11-26-2006, 07:30 PM

desapience

11-26-2006, 08:33 PM

Dennis:
Enjoyed the description of the project but a couple of questions..
1. Did you go to Daytona this year?
2. what's going to happen to the rf shifter if you pass by a field of people flying their remote controlled airplanes. :D

Robert

I had a guest down from up north for Thanksgiving, and not time to enjoy the Turkey-rod run. My '55' is not apart yet, but, I did not care to enter it there this year..., the goal remains the CCI show in February, and to take home a 1st prize trophy.

The RF frequency of the paddle shifter is specific to the controller box it comes with, and the range for the reception is quite limited to distances within the car's interior... so, I was told by the tech who built and designed the system. It's a system built by 'Twist Machine', and you can call to speak to Steve at 631-610-4186 for tech info.

The RF 'eye' is located on the underside of the steering wheel adapter, with a lithium battery power supply, whereas the receiving contoller box that links to the TCI aftermarket tranny controller, will be mounted under the front seat, almost directly under the driver.

The actual TCI tranny computer will also be hidden under the seat, with its main connector trunk passing through the floor directly to the main connector on the tranny, and to the speedo-sensor (through sealed rubber grommets). This inside underseat mounting of the TCI computer allows for easy connection to a laptop for programming the tranny.

The only other connections are to the throttle position sensor, power supply and for two switches -- one being an manual/auto mode switch, and another being an over-riding 'econo-mode' switch (a grounding switch).

I am planning to use a moment switch, with an 'on-off' relay, to trigger the shift into manual/auto mode selction.... using a moment switch mounted into the end of the signal light lever.

Denis

Skip FIx

11-28-2006, 01:17 AM

I'd consider using a hydraulic roller with all the flat tappet issues lately of flat lobes. You can get a slightly more aggressive lobe also. Many of the Pontiac guys are having good luck with them. No maintenance either, same springs as a flat tappet.

dq409

11-28-2006, 01:44 PM

I'd consider using a hydraulic roller . No maintenance either, .

Not giving you any flack here but why are people so against a valve adjust once a year or so??:dunno

With the new poly locks the adjustment stays set for a long time.
I think you will find that you only have to ajust them every year and most times you can even go longer !!!

You will get better performance with a sold cam, quicker responce to power
So I always wonder why performance minded gear heads go with hydraulics,,,,

Don`t make sense to me,,dq

skipxt4

11-28-2006, 09:05 PM

Guys that choose hydraulic cams, want low maintenance, and probably like listening to their music. I like listening to the music my engine makes. :clap Every engine I ever built,(for myself) had a solid cam. It's just a matter of preference. JMO Skip:)

Skip FIx

11-29-2006, 06:24 PM

Since I ran a solid roller on the street I'm assuming you aren't speaking of me. I thought Dennis mentioned wanting less maintenance as the reason to go flat tappet hydraulic, and mainly show car. teh roller will elimainte break in and possible flat lobes, besides getting a more aggressive lobe too @ 0.050 and 0.200 compared to a flat tappet-unless you go larger diameter Mopar lifters or the old mushroom lifters like the old circle track guys did.. "More area under the curve" to allow airfuel in.

An aggressive lobe aftermarket cam with roller rockers is always going to be a little noise.

Depends on what accesories and brackets you have as far as ease of maintenance. The A/C brackets on my Pontiac go over the valve cover so you have to pull then just to pull the valve cover. Blowers and other big things on top can interfere with ease also

region rat

11-29-2006, 07:43 PM

Denis. All I can say is WOW!. Great to hear the detail you're putting into the 55. Bob

desapience

11-29-2006, 11:03 PM

Guys,

Believe me I appreciate the input on my post about deciding to go to a hydraulic lifters versus solid lifter for the roller cam... the cam can go either way, with, of course, the accompanying change in springs...

I had a fairly lengthy conversation with my engine builder about this issue. We've built a half dozen engines together these last 5 years -- some wilder than others, including the 409/446 stroker in my '55' now. I still initially made the decision to switch to hydraulics.... then, we talked again a day later, and he came at me with something that simply made more "purposeful" sense.

Remember, my 409/482, has splayed 4-bolt mains... etc., etc.... it's designed and built to honk.

So....,

My ultimate decision focused upon what I've previously termed the "mystery upgrade" for my new stroker 482.... and for your viewing pleasure tonight, here are pictures of my two choices... for carburetion. No more mystery.

The 409/482 stroker, with the roller cam is getting the M/T cross-ram, and thus, the solid lifters, and it will go into my '55' showcar... Had I gone with the "other intake", the ceramic coated stock 4x2, I would have gone with hydraulic lifters...

The x-ram, which I personally polished last Friday after Thanksgiving Day, and taking all day to do so, was ceramic coated this week, and I think it came out marvelous!!! :brow

I'll have more pictures upcoming when the intake is mocked up on the 482 this weekend... Enjoy!

Denis

Dick MacKenzie

11-30-2006, 09:57 AM

Denis,
That cross ram is a thing of beauty! AND in it's rightful place as well. Right in the middle of the dinning room table!
:rofl

Seriously, super nice!

skipxt4

11-30-2006, 10:08 AM

LOOKIN GOOD, Denis. I know you spent MANY hours polishing the carbs and intake. It was definately worth the effort.:clap Nothing wrong with having car parts on a dining room table.:clap Just a different type of center piece, that MEN can appreciate.:rofl :rofl Skip :)

desapience

11-30-2006, 11:54 AM

Guys,

Thanks for the kudoos, again! I thought to mention the use of my dining table for assembling the x-ram mock-up and taking the pics... I expected a comment on it!

It's one of the grand benefits of no longer having a, "I want half", nagging, female-predator, living in the same house. My maid is paid simply to clean and keep her comments to herself.

But, really, those intakes/carbs, parts are all sterile clean...

I'm still working on show-polishing the BIG Griffen aluminum downflow... need another full-day of work on it. It's over by the wet bar.... :beerbang

I worked a bit more after the pics were taken to assemble and set-up the linkage, and the twin air-cleaners came in today... I'll post more pics later tonight.

Denis

rstreet

11-30-2006, 01:19 PM

What a display!!!! I am in favor of the display and will show it to Ann this weekend when she comes home. I can't wait to get to FL. to see the completed car!!!!

rwagon57

11-30-2006, 03:35 PM

Denis,

That is truly a thing of beauty.:clap :clap :clap

jim_ss409

11-30-2006, 06:28 PM

That stuff looks like jewlery!:clap It's almost too nice to hide under the hood.

impalamike.com

11-30-2006, 07:49 PM

Can't wait to see more pictures!!

desapience

11-30-2006, 08:03 PM

Can't wait to see more pictures!!

Did a few changes in this mock-up...., getting much closer to where's it's going to be at installation. The linkage needs a bit more tweeking and a couple custom mountings for the Lokar cables (for the throttle cable and the throttle position sensor to give computer input for the 4L60E).

I want everything sweet and simple, and fully functional!

I removed the 1" carb spacers, and will likely use the oil-filler tube like in the 4x2 set-up, with the shielded K&N oil-tube breather (see previous pic of that set-up).

I also installed the "ebay" purchased twin-air-cleaners -- a $65.00 gamble that paid off nicely -- they're perfect! However, I will change the air-cleaner hold-down knobs :brow

It does not look like I'll be seeing my 482 until Satrurday... but, it's a pretty safe bet this set-up will look marveloussssssssssssss atop a fresh 409-482 stoker!!

More pics will follow once the 482 is in my garage.

Denis

dq409

12-01-2006, 12:29 PM

GAWD ,,, I love the looks of that MT !!!!!

desapience

12-02-2006, 01:33 AM

GAWD ,,, I love the looks of that MT !!!!!

Good Lord!

I got home from the office at about 3-pm... and went straight to work on the M/T x-ram... lots of problems to solve, some large. some small. But, I have the linkage figured out, the Lokar cables for throttle (gas pedal) and throttle position senor ARE in like Flynn, as well as the return springs, carb spacers... fuel line fittings selected (6-AN)... it was not a walk in the park at all! But, it all works, is simple, neat, solid, and looks top-notch.

Should get the 482 by Sat-PM (today)... I'll hopefully be able to update some pics with the intake on the long-block...

Denis

rstreet

12-02-2006, 10:53 AM

Dennis:
You just are going to have to shoot the pictures in the dinning room again. We are envious!

Tom Kochtanek

12-02-2006, 01:37 PM

Dr. D, that would look just fine under my tree this year, with or without a big Chevy Orange wreath :) :) :).

Can't wait to see how it complements the 482 inch "W" long block!

Cheers,
TomK

desapience

12-02-2006, 05:43 PM

Dr. D, that would look just fine under my tree this year, with or without a big Chevy Orange wreath :) :) :).

Can't wait to see how it complements the 482 inch "W" long block!

Cheers,
TomK

TomK

Well, was up early this mornig... had to get the F**D 9" down to my buddy's hotrod shop to prep it for installing into my '55'... needs to have the axles redrilled for Chevy bolt pattern, old spring pads cut off, calipers checked out,, blasted, painted....

Meanwhile, back at the dining table project... I've pretty much finalized all the last details... routing of the vacuum timing hoses, cables, and a trick way for -- mounting of the throttle position sensor.

Crankcase ventilation: on the front of the engine the oil-tube filler hose will be connected to the front PCV port of the passenger side 650 cfm AVS Thunder Series Edelbrock carb, and the rear intake port, plugged with a PCV valve, will be connected to the rear PCV port of the driver's side carb.

Since each carb specifically feeds the 4-clyinder bank opposite to it, and that these systems are always thought of as a screwy situation wherein the carbs are always not quite in sync with each other... no common plenum..., I wanted everything blanced or shared equally.

I'm planning on using the non-timed vacuum port for vacuum advance, but, will be connecting both carbs to the line going to the distributor. And, as described above, each 4-cylinder bank will get a crankcase vent feed.. Tuning this thing is likely going to be tricky... but, hey, it'll be worth it in the end.

One big frustration for the day... the 482 is not going to be delivered to my garage until -- at the latest next Friday, or the earliest, Monday...

Not a big deal really, since there's so much yet to do.... I have the tranny and converter (4L60E, w/2400 stall), the F**D 9" prepping is in progress, and I have a dozen details or two to complete on the car itself....

Taking my '55' to its last cruise tonight --that is, in the present configuration with the 446/700R4, Chevy 3.23. posi rear....

After this weekend, and the next time it shows up at a cruise, the 55' will be 482 M/T x-ram powered, with a paddle shifted 4L60E, and a 3.73 posi F**D 9" rear....

And it's December 1st... Can I get it done by Christmas? New Year's? February 1st, 2007???

We shall see... :doh

Dr D. (Denis)

mpris

12-02-2006, 07:51 PM

desapience

12-02-2006, 10:24 PM

Dennis, I have a question about the way you are connecting your crankcase ventilation. Is your oil fill tube using a vented or closed cap? Am I correct in assuming you are using 1 PCV valve on one carb and no PCV valve on the other? IF your oil fill tube is using a closed cap, where are you pulling the clean air into the system? With a closed cap you will have two vacuums pulling against each other and no fresh air inlet. If your oil fill tube cap is vented, the passenger side carb will not be pulling air through your system. It will pull it straight from the vented oil fill cap and into the carb. In order for the system to work properly, you have to pull fresh air through the engine. IF you are using an open cap, the hose from the oil fill tube will actually not be helping your crankcase ventilation and if you don't use a PCV valve or fixed orifice in that hose, I believe you will have quite a vacuum leak. The driver's side carb, using a PCV will work properly if you have a vented cap on the oil fill tube.

If are going to run vents in your valve covers for the fresh air source, disregard the above except that you still need 2 PCV valves.

Poocho

poocho,

My intent is to use the same oil-filler and vented K&N shielded cap as is depicted in the picture of the stock (coated) 4x2 intake.

You are correct, but, I do not believe I need two PCV valves, just a T-joint so that both carbs get attached to the intake's ventilation port where the PCV valve will be located as well. I do not perceive using both carbs through one PCV junction being a problem, do you? My own counter thought here is when tuning the carbs (using a vacuum gauge) , but, I still believe only one PCV will be necessary.

I'll be using Moon Eyes Valve covers, without breathers... just the K&N vented cap in the standard oil-filler tube.

Denis

mpris

12-03-2006, 03:29 AM

desapience

12-03-2006, 09:26 AM

Now I am confused. In your original statement you said you were connecting the front oil-tube filler hose to the passenger side carb and the rear intake port to the driver side carb through a pcv valve.

So if I understand you correctly, you will be using the old style vented oil filler tube with no vacuum line attached and will be using 1 pcv valve at the rear intake port and connect it to both carbs through a T connection. This will pull the fresh air in through the oil filler vented cap, through the engine and back to the carbs to be reburned. This is the way the 409s were prior to 64.

The only problem this can cause is at high load and RPMs (when there is very little vacuum), you can get blow back through the oil filler tube and possibly blow the filler cap off or blow oil out through the oil filler cap. That's the reason Chevy offered the closed PCV system option in 64.

P. S. I think that M/T manifold and carbs is the very best looking two four set up made.

Poocho

Poocho,

No need to be confused... It was my error in thinking that made for it. If you go back further in the thread you will see that it was my intent to use the standard oil-filler tube with the shielded K&N cap.

The cap is held down with a hose clamp, is quite snug, and has a relatively high surface area for unrestricted venting. This is the same way I now have my stroker 409/446 set up in my '55', albeit the 4x2 intake is stock and the PCV valve feeds into only the rear carb..., without any problems at high/load/RPM. Since the M/T's runners are not shared between the carbs, I will connect both carbs to the PCV connection at the rear of the intake keep things all even stevens.

Denis

Skip FIx

12-05-2006, 07:21 PM

desapience

12-06-2006, 02:22 PM

The Pontiac M/Ts picked up performance when connecting both plenums with a tube, easier as we have a separate valley and separated runners/plenums. Don't know if the 09 one you could do it underneath and hid it.

Many of the aftermarket Pontiac manifolds use a sungle cylinder runner for the PCV fitting causing that cylinder to run lean. I redril one dead center in the plenum on mine. I'd sure try to T them on both sides to prevent that.

I've always prefered ful vacuum advance on my motors not timed, so at idle you get a little extra to smooth out a lumpy cam.

Skip,

All I'm doing is setting up the timing vacuum hose to get vaccum from each carb.

When tuning with a vacuum gauge, wherein the non-timed port/line is tapped for the vacuum gauge, the optimun tune will still show when vaccum is at its highest, no matter which carb is being adjusted. Obviously, and optimally, the split plenums would run best if they have exactly the same carbs, jetting, and idle settings, and tuned for optimum vacuum.

Mating the plenums together, via a hose or whatever, would probably work fine..., but, I hav eno intention of modifying this intake.

My 482 and the M/T should be together for pictures in the next several days...

Dr D. (Denis)

Skip FIx

12-07-2006, 11:56 AM

desapience

12-07-2006, 10:05 PM

I would still consider running the PCV to both carbs so one doesn;t run lean with the extra air from it. Although not as pretty.

I fact we has a discussion on teh Pontiac board about different PCVs bypass different amounts of air at different vacuum but no where has the specs on them. They can be used for extra idle air bypass for a lumpy cam also.

Skip,

I've set it up with only one PCV, mounted at the rear of the intake, with 3/8" hose leading to a "T", which branches off to each carb, seperately. That's for starters.

Whenever I come up against an unknown or a good argument for either of multiple possibilities, I usually build the alternatives, ready-to-go.

True, the dual PCV design might be as pretty/simple looking..., but, we shall see.

I'm waiting for my 482 still..., should be here tomorrow evening or Saturday. I'll immediately mock-up the x-ram, headers, etc..., and take pictures.

That's right, I said headers... Sanderson's. They look good, and the driver's side collector is raked rearward, as compared to the centered passenger side collector. And it's a block-hugger..., so, there is hope I'll sneak them in past the rack and pinion steering shaft, as is. If not, I'll redesign the routing for the stainless shaft. I want true tube headers for the 482 roller.

There's a local show this Sunday -- a fair sized event, and I'm going to enter the '55', as is. Then, it comes apart next weekend... the build will finally begin, with two months to complete it.

Denis

Skip FIx

12-08-2006, 12:26 PM

The one PCV and a T to both carbs is what I was suggesting, I thought you were running it to just one carb.
Should be a cool looking motor!!! Hard to beat the looks of an M/T !

desapience

12-08-2006, 04:15 PM

The one PCV and a T to both carbs is what I was suggesting, I thought you were running it to just one carb.
Should be a cool looking motor!!! Hard to beat the looks of an M/T !

Skip,

That's correct... and it looks simple and functional..., but, I'm peeved good because I was supposed to have the 482 today or tomorrow the latest, but, the builder is taking a vacation to TN, for 4 to 5 days!

Shared some words and thoughts with him on that... I get the engine next Saturday, finished or not. Dang thing only needs the pushrods and rockers installed, to finish it!

So, the weekend plans to finish dressing the 482 are changed... bummer.

Denis

desapience

12-17-2006, 07:54 PM

UPDATE:

Well, as another weekend fades into history, there's little to report as progress. That is of course, unless one counts problems being forced to surface and solved don't count as progress.

First about the F**D 9"..., all went well with complete disassembly, with a bare housing -- old spring perches cut off and smoothed, blasted to bare metal, cleaned, primed, painted (black), and cleared. Rotors were trued, and axels drilled for 5-4-3/4... all new bearings and seals - ready to go. Da-dum... except that the pinion gear was badly pitted on two surfaces, thank you very much!

More $$ shelled out, and a new ring & pinion will be installed (in the 3.50:1 range). I made a decision to not wander off too far into the gear ratios.. My '55' now has 3.23:1 (posi), and the pitted F**D set was 3.73:1 (posi).. with the 700R4/4L60E, 3.55's are plenty a handful... a good middle ground, on a stronger carrier.

Alas, the march to having the 482 long-block delivered also floundered. It seems the billet timing cover I have does not mix well with a STEF's front seal design of the oil-pan. Very slight modes to the windage screen went easily for clearance of the 4-bolt mains..., but that billet cover needed way more modification to make it a go. The billet cover would work nicely with a stock pan... maybe my 3rd upcoming 409 will get it. Luckily, I long had a spare 409 timing cover, painted and ready to go.

The M/T cross-ram is ready to go..., just hope I don't have a ton of fitment glitches to diddle with. I'll get the 482 tomorrow evening (Monday), and the 9" goes into the '55' by Saturday -- completed.

This will leave me less than TWO months to dress-out the 482, remove the 446, redetail the front frame, install the 482, install the new BIG Griffen downflow, and install the 4L60E, with all its electronics.

Update pictures will be posted later this week.

Denis

rstreet

12-17-2006, 08:11 PM

Dennis: As much as you have going on with a deadline sounds like some of my wastewater projects with deadlines. Sounds like you need a "project manager" while you are doing the surgical dental stuff:brow

fatride

12-18-2006, 07:02 AM

desapience

12-18-2006, 02:16 PM

Dennis, you must make the sacrifice and come to one of our get togethers. We are trying to get a meet at Norwalk Raceway Park off the ground in late July. How about it? I'd like to see what the 55 will do.

Guys,

Ahhh..., yes... why build a strong streetrod and not race it, or minimally see "what she'll do in a 1/4 mile....??? I won't have the size rubber needed to hook-up for a best run, but, it might be cool just to watch the burnouts!

Project manager? I guess we'd all like to be a Jay Leno. The problem is not me being unable to get things done in a timely way, it's others we (I) depend upon to come through for us, as they promised!

Making sacrifices? Man, if only you knew the sacrifices already made!

I've already been asked to bring my '55 to the Hotrod Nats in Ohio this coming June, does that coincide with the planned get-together? Keep me posted on the dates as early as possible... I want to attend at least one get-toether for sure. :cheers

ANYWAY, just made a call and made plans for the 482 to be brought to my garage this EVENING!!!! IT IS DONE! Pictures soon to follow! :bow

Denis

desapience

12-18-2006, 07:17 PM

Guys,

It's 6-PM here in FL, and I've been on the go since 3-PM.. picked up the 482, brought her home, mocked it up with the x-ram a bit, took lots of pictures and will post them in a couple hours... the digital camera battery needs recharging.

One quick problem to emerge..., the MOON EYES valve covers will NOT work with the M/T crossram -- close, but, no cigar. I'll swap out with the Offys on my 446. Otherwise, the intake fits beautifully -- bolt holes all line up nicely -- no surprises from any prior odd or excessive machine work, thank God.

Lots of work yet, as you all know..., but, this is progress. :brow

Denis

desapience

12-18-2006, 07:24 PM

I didn't see the last issue... I'll get a copy and take a peek and get back with you on contacting the guy.
Thanks,
Denis

desapience

12-18-2006, 08:35 PM

. Guys,

As promised, here are the pictures of my 482 stroker (roller motor, solid lifters), with the M/T intake mock-up. As I posted previously, the sole problem seems to be that the more squarish MOON EYES, valve covers DO not allow the intake to sit down all the way. The OFFY covers on my 446 offer more clearance.

In truth, I had only about 30 minutes to get the mock-up done, take pictures, resize them, and close-up shop for the night... I may only need to go to 1" carb spacers to get the driver's side carb linkage up higher, and off the valve covers...

Anyway, she's here, I'm ready, and all I need now is a couple good weekends!!

Left to right:
1. My best buddy, youngest son, and future owner of my '55'
2. Back view of the M/T, with "t" fitting for sharing of the PCV connection by both carbs
3. The backbone -- look at those clean 583 heads, w/guide plates, roller roickers (1.7's).
4. STEF's custom made oil-pan -- a work of art! (Thanks Jake!)
5. My '55' with the 446, ready to snap-up the higher energy 482!!!

Denis :cheers

rstreet

12-18-2006, 09:01 PM

Dennis:
I am pretty much speachless:bow I am very impressed with that oil pan. One small comment but might not aply to what you are going to do...Are those softer brass freeze plugs "pinned"

desapience

12-18-2006, 09:10 PM

Dennis:
I am pretty much speachless:bow I am very impressed with that oil pan. One small comment but might not aply to what you are going to do...Are those softer brass freeze plugs "pinned"

Do you mean the row of 4 plugs just above the oil-pan rail? They were tapped, and screw-in plugs placed with sealer. Jake, the longest term employee at STEF's fabricated the oil pan for me as a special favor, just as he did the oil-pan on my 446. This pan, however, is higher capacity. Jake is a true top-notch aluminum fabricator!

Glad you enjoyed the pictures... many more will follow, soon.

Denis

desapience

12-18-2006, 09:28 PM

looks like x-mas came early this year. i would have a hard time sleeping tonight with that new baby sitting in the garage. i see you have some good help too, keep him involved, you will never regret it years from now.

That's my youngest of 5 kids. He watched the '55' get a complete frame-off restortion, beginnng at age 4, in early 1999. He saw it go from simply a totally stripped and empty hulk sitting on the frame, where he used to play with a mocked-up steering wheel while sitting on a 5-gallon can! He witnessed my '55' get its 1st engine back in 1999... a cammed high-revving 327, with a TH350. A year or so later, he helped me install the second engine, a 468 BBC roller motor... That 468 was a honking motor... and he will never forget the many HUGE burnouts I used to do on a particular cruise night, each week. He loved it!

And, he well remembers my brining home my 1st 409 in my pickup bed..., completely disasembled, a 64-65 'mint' truck block, intake, and flawless 583 heads. He watched me "study", on the computer -- boning up on the W's. He was with me each step of the way..., many trips to my buddy's machine shop, where my son grew to know everyone.

And this afternoon.., I picked him up form school at 2:15-pm... and we went at 3-pm to pick up the 482. As you can see from the smile on his face, my son KNOWS what these W's are, and how rare they've become!

After we closed up shop, I took him over to the corner of the garage, and had him peek at another block on an engine stand under a cover, alongside where my ZZ430 sits. Psssttt, I told him... "that's another 409 truck-block"... we're going to supercharge that one!!!

You're correct, I'll never regret these days with him, teaching him and watching him learn and grow. He will remember these days, and he will grow up knowing what a 409 is, and appreciating that I passed them down to him and his older brother (age 30), along with the skills to make them even better.

Denis

JimKwiatkowski

12-18-2006, 09:59 PM

Denis,it's Good to see another member run M/T Cross Ram :D

mac1

12-18-2006, 10:08 PM

Do you mean the row of 4 plugs just above the oil-pan rail? They were tapped, and screw-in plugs placed with sealer.
Denis

What exactly are those 4 tapped holes used for anyway???

Phil Reed

12-18-2006, 10:11 PM

That's were the block is drilled for oil to get to the main bearings.

desapience

12-18-2006, 10:28 PM

Denis,it's Good to see another member run M/T Cross Ram :D

Jim, Nice to hear from you... I thought you'd like seeing another x-ram on the Forum... Tuning the thng may be a bit difficult.... we shall soon see!

Denis

skipxt4

12-19-2006, 12:15 AM

Nice stuff Denis.:clap Christmas has definately come early. Years ago, LGC had an article in there monthly magazine, explaining how to drill those four passages along with a passage in the oil filter area, to increase oil volume to the mains, and rod bearings. I'm sure Phil has heard of this and probably has done it.:brow Skip:)

region rat

12-22-2006, 01:51 AM

desapience

12-22-2006, 09:42 PM

Denis, Man that motor is sweet! It's a great thing you're doing, having your son helping. Mine is 30 and we put together a 55 for him to drive to school. His friends thought he was a genius when he started the car with a screwdriver at the solenoid.
they don't forget that stuff. Bob

Bob,

Ohhh, man, I've been patriently awaiting this coming week to come along! I've been swamped at the office for months on end, and trying to "manage" the project, timewise, in hopes of making the February CCI show.

Another buddy of mine has the F**D 9" ready to be installed, with new Richmond 3.50 gearset (posi), complete with drilled rotors (disk brakes), all new bearing and seals.., traded some dental work for his services. My other buddy, at the machine shop came through, albeit a bit late, but, none-the-less, in time for this coming week off of mine. We are planning to install the 9" rear next Wednsday, and have it completed (to include driveshaft shortening), by Saturday.

Tomorrow I should complete most of the "dressing-out" of the 482, right up to the fan belts -- all new chromed power-steering pump, Sanderson tube headers. As I said previously, the MOON EYES valve covers will NOT work with the M/T Cross-ram, so, I'm forced either to swap out the Offys on my 446, or buy a third set.. those new ones from www.yourcovers.com -- polished. I still have a problem swallowing that price: $450/set http://www.yourcovers.com/vc_10651.shtml

But, I like them, and the "Chevrolet" script is very nice... we shall see.

As planned, the overall project for the driveline (rear end, 4L60E (w/computer), and then, the 482 install, will happen in that order, with the car tested after each phase.

IF the character of the car, with the 3.50 gearset is wilder than expected (the 446 already runs gawd aweful strong now with the 3.23 gearset), the 482 may not be installed in the '55', but still the M/T may go on the 446. No matter what, the installation of the 4L60E is going to follow installation of the 9". The new BIG polished Griffen downflow will also be installed, no matter what.

That will leave me with a very nice 'built' 700R4, and either the 446, or the 482 stoker for whatever I come up with early next year, as a project.

To be honest, I came across a nice 1940 Ford coupe, recently. Seems to me that a nice stroker 409 would look marvelous in one of those too....

But, first things first...

1. F**D 9" installed
...testing... go to 4L60E
2. 4L60E with computer, installed
... testing... if it runs REAL STRONG, staying with the 446 is likely
3. ???? stay with the 446 or do I go with the 482?
a) if I decide to stay with the 446, it will get the M/T crossram
b) OR go with the 482 (lots depends upon timing for the February show).

I never thought I'd have the problem of deciding which 409/stroker I would use! We should all have such a problem, huh?

The build begins TOMORROW! :brow

Denis

Ronnie Russell

12-22-2006, 11:25 PM

Good luck Denis, Hope everything goes smooth as silk. Please grab the 40 Ford Coupe. One fine looking car!!! Looks like you will be working through the holidays. Merry Christmas :)

rstreet

12-23-2006, 12:03 AM

Denis:
Great project .... Have a merry christmas with your helper

dq409

12-23-2006, 03:05 PM

Off we go,, into the wide mouth yonder,,,,,, looking fo,,, a tooth to fill

Now sing it ,,,,

desapience

12-23-2006, 08:58 PM

Off we go,, into the wide mouth yonder,,,,,, looking fo,,, a tooth to fill

Now sing it ,,,,

STARTED DRESSING OUT THE 482...!! I PUT SOME CHRISTMAS LIGHTS ON IT, HUNG SOME ORNAMENTS FROM THE HEADERS AND ANGELHAIR ON THE AIR-CLEANER. HAD A HECK OF A TIME HOISTING IT TO THE TOP OF THE CHRISTMAS TREE THOUGH!! :rofl

SLOW PROGRESS TODAY WHAT WITH THE KIDS COMING OVER FOR LUNCH, WITH MY 8 MONTH OLD GRAND-DAUGHTER. I GOT HER A PEDDLE CAR - A 55 CHEVY CONVERTIBLE PEDDLE CAR FOR CHRISTMAS!! NEED TO BREAK THEM IN YOUNG...

DID THE HARMONIC BALANCER, BILLET CRANK-PULLEY, WATER-PUMP (A STOCK ONE), BILLET WATER-PUMP PULLEY, JET-COATED POWER-STEERING BRACKET, AND CHROMED POWER STEERING PUMP & PULLEY, WITH BILLET CAP.

TRIED ONCE AGAIN TO MORE CAREFULLY MOCK-UP THE M/T INTAKE..., BUT, IT'S DEFINITELY A NO-GO WITH THE MOON-EYES VALVE COVERS.

MY OLD HIGH-SCHOOL SWEETHEART (WE'RE BOTH OLD NOW).., WANTS TO KNOW WHAT I WANT FOR CHRISTMAS... HMMMM????

SO... HERE'S WHAT I ASKED FOR.. http://www.yourcovers.com/valve_cover_images/10651_pol_lg.jpg

THESE COVERS SHOULD EASILY CLEAR THE M/T INTAKE. I'LL SAVE THE MOOM-EYES VALVE COVERS FOR THE NEXT 409...

MORE PICTURES WILL BE UPCOMING.

DENIS

JimKwiatkowski

12-23-2006, 10:23 PM

Denis,in 91 to 93 I ran Aluminum finned valve covers and it was a tight fit.I don't know what brand they were :dunno

desapience

12-23-2006, 11:51 PM

Denis,in 91 to 93 I ran Aluminum finned valve covers and it was a tight fit.I don't know what brand they were :dunno

Jim,

Those covers look very much like the Moon-Eyes I have, but I'm certain those that I have will not allow for the M/T intake..., they clash dead center fore to aft, with the intake. They are too square and boxy at that point.

My OFFY covers would work fine, but, I want to keep covers on each engine, and since I do have a 3rd 409 block (and 583 heads) awaiting a build, the Moon-Eyes covers will eventually have a home.

I see too that you used 1" spacers under your carbs... I put them on initally as well, but, went to the simple 1/4" Edelbrock base-plates -- I needed at least 1/4" to clear the linkage off the intake inboard on the passenger side carb. I want to maximize hood clearance for the taller air-cleaners.

Those polished "yourcovers" valve covers, with "chevrolet" script, are on the way, so, I'll see what happens next week. It's going to be a very busy week.

I'm still hemming and hawing about whether to install the 482 into my '55', or not. It would be relatively easy to simply install the M/T right on my 446, as is.

Have a Merry Christmas!

Denis

budgetrod

12-24-2006, 01:12 PM

I wish I had your problems. Not being able to decide which W motor to throw in my car. I'm seriously jealous. You have a beautiful car no matter which you use. Good luck.

JimKwiatkowski

12-24-2006, 01:35 PM

Jim,

Those covers look very much like the Moon-Eyes I have, but I'm certain those that I have will not allow for the M/T intake..., they clash dead center fore to aft, with the intake. They are too square and boxy at that point.

My OFFY covers would work fine, but, I want to keep covers on each engine, and since I do have a 3rd 409 block (and 583 heads) awaiting a build, the Moon-Eyes covers will eventually have a home.

I see too that you used 1" spacers under your carbs... I put them on initally as well, but, went to the simple 1/4" Edelbrock base-plates -- I needed at least 1/4" to clear the linkage off the intake inboard on the passenger side carb. I want to maximize hood clearance for the taller air-cleaners.

Those polished "yourcovers" valve covers, with "Chevrolet" script, are on the way, so, I'll see what happens next week. It's going to be a very busy week.

I'm still hemming and hawing about whether to install the 482 into my '55', or not. It would be relatively easy to simply install the M/T right on my 446, as is.

Have a Merry Christmas!

Denis

Denis,I didn't use any spacers,it must be a reflection from the chrome plating.I do like the Chevrolet Script covers better than the Moon Eye's,but I prefer the chrome covers with the 409 decals,so people can read what engine is between my frame rails :D

dq409

12-24-2006, 05:19 PM

I do like the Chevrolet Script covers better than the Moon Eye's,but I prefer the chrome covers with the 409 decals,so people can read what engine is between my frame rails :D

You mean they don`t know???:dunno

I figure if they have to look at a sticker to know that it is a 409, they won`t know what a 409 is anyways!!!!:doh :rofl

JimKwiatkowski

12-24-2006, 06:24 PM

You mean they don`t know???:dunno

I figure if they have to look at a sticker to know that it is a 409, they won`t know what a 409 is anyways!!!!:doh :rofl

dq,there is some younger people that never seen a 409 ,but heard about a 409.When I ran my Aluminum finned valve covers,I would have some younger people ask me what kind of engine is that ?I would tell them it's a 409 and they would reply,so thats a 409.

desapience

12-24-2006, 08:20 PM

dq,there is some younger people that never seen a 409 ,but heard about a 409.When I ran my Aluminum finned valve covers,I would have some younger people ask me what kind of engine is that ?I would tell them it's a 409 and they would reply,so thats a 409.

Jim,

I have had many similar experiences at local cruises, often asked "what is that?". As is typical, they approach my '55', especially after hearing it pull in, thinking it to have a "big block", or a wild "small block". Then, they ask, "what is that"?

If it were not for the rarity and expense of antying up to the world of "w's", we'd see far more of the 409's out there. But, it is how it is...

Here's three more pictures of my 482..., for fun I mocked it up with the jet-coated stock intake that was initially planned to go on it. I'll update again after I receive the "yourcovers", scripted valve covers next week.

Merry Christmas to everyone in this fine family of "W's".

Denis

Skip FIx

12-24-2006, 09:00 PM

Shoot even in the early 70s most had forgotten what a 409 was. I took the badges off the fenders and would race people with my "348 truck motor". "Can you give me lengths?" Only really heathy BBC might stay up! 12.20s @ 108 on the street driven "Cheater slicks".

dq409

12-27-2006, 01:40 PM

dq,there is some younger people that never seen a 409 ,but heard about a 409.When I ran my Aluminum finned valve covers,I would have some younger people ask me what kind of engine is that ?I would tell them it's a 409 and they would reply,so thats a 409.

OK,,, Point taken,,

How about machining a flat area in the middle of the valve cover and installing some fender badges????

dq409

12-27-2006, 02:33 PM

OK,,, Point taken,,

How about machining a flat area in the middle of the valve cover and installing some fender badges????

Like this,,,,

desapience

12-27-2006, 02:48 PM

Like this,,,,

Looks good to me... casting a larger "409" script in solid gold might work too.

Denis :brow

JimKwiatkowski

12-27-2006, 03:35 PM

dq,I like it looks Great

JimKwiatkowski

12-27-2006, 03:55 PM

Looks good to me... casting a larger "409" script in solid gold might work too.

Denis :brow

Denis,Ronnie Suggested you might want to make some Gold 409 Emblems for Christmas,for use club members,I didn't get any Gold Emblems :dunno .Did you Ronnie :dunno

Ronnie Russell
Supporting Member Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Ladonia, Texas
Posts: 1,527

Denis, What a truly talented man you are. It seems only logical that you would make all 1,400 members a pair of 409 fender emblems, made out of gold. This would be a nice gesture that I am sure we would all appreciate. Since I am not into exact reproductions, go ahead and make mine double size. Take your time, Christmas would be fine with me.

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#59 08-11-2006, 11:00 PM
Bam59
Supporting Member Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Clearwater,Fl. U.S.A.
Posts: 226

Denis,,, do not forget us 348 folks
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mike
1959 El Camino

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#60 08-12-2006, 12:37 AM
desapience
Supporting Member Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 295

Cast gold 409 AND 348 insignia

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie Russell
Denis, What a truly talented man you are. It seems only logical that you would make all 1,400 members a pair of 409 fender emblems, made out of gold. This would be a nice gesture that I am sure we would all appreciate. Since I am not into exact reproductions, go ahead and make mine double size. Take your time, Christmas would be fine with me.

Ronnie,

Now there's a thought! Let's see now, with gold going for about $650 oz, and going much higher soon...????

Denis
__________________

Ronnie Russell

12-27-2006, 04:02 PM

Jim, Dont think Denis will fall for that. There are over 200 more members now...:rofl :rofl

rstreet

12-27-2006, 08:25 PM

Dick MacKenzie

12-27-2006, 10:14 PM

rstreet

12-27-2006, 10:42 PM

Dick
There is a successful construction company owner up your way who died a few months ago. He helped sponsor the sucessful search for the "Atocha" a spanish ship that sunk off Florida in the 1700's. The ship was loaded with gold and all got shares. He gave some to a community college up your way that is being auctioned off as a fund raiser.(be there with the check book so we can get our dashplaques)

Dick MacKenzie

12-27-2006, 10:46 PM

Mel Joseph. He was also one of the owners of Dover Downs. A hard working contractor who made a bundle! I'll ask the wife for my allowance early this week. :brow

oldskydog

12-28-2006, 07:21 PM

Mel Joseph. He was also one of the owners of Dover Downs. A hard working contractor who made a bundle! I'll ask the wife for my allowance early this week. :brow

You get an allowance?......How did that happen?

:grumble: :rofl

Dick MacKenzie

12-28-2006, 07:36 PM

She treats me good, Cecil. I take care of her horses in the morning. We all deal with horse s**t one way or another. :rofl

desapience

12-30-2006, 02:57 AM

Dennis could cast those as "dashplaques" for the members that show up at Clay City, Ohio or the West coast event.:D :D I don't anyone else who knows how to do that stuff.
There are some Spanish shipwreck gold coins and other gold artifacts being auctioned off up in DE near Dick. Maybe Dick will buy them and donate for Dennis:D :D
Robert

Robert,

Medical/dental school tuition was not cheap, even back 24 years ago (graduated in 1983). My GI bennies were crucial to me then (Vietnam Vet), especially since I had a wife and two young children to feed at the time. My bennies ran out in the beginning of my 2nd year in dental school. Up to that time I had supplimented the bennies with my life savings, and working in parking lots fixing abandoned cars, typical of college campuses. I fixed, then, sold them for extra cash.

And, then, I learned the "lost wax technique" -- as part of the curriculum -- we had to fully fabricate, from scratch, the gold crowns for our assigned patients. Being artistic, I immediately jumped on the idea to start making custom solid gold jewelry -- and never once was a custom item I made refused by the "cusotmers"...., most everthing I made (rings, pendants, ear-rings). It always provided for in-pocket cash for the groceries and smaller stuff.

But, for tuition money, I found myself forced to borrow from the government -- from the guaranteed student loan program. That was serious money, and I always viewed it as a time-bomb burden.

Then, I had an idea -- how about making and marketing a "class ring"? I set out by first making a prototype ring, styled to apply only one class -- the "Theta Class"..., each dental class was designated by a Greek letter. Of the 60 graduating members of my class, I sold 44 of them -- the profits from that one ring alone paid in full for my senior year's tuition! I never had to borrow money for tuition beyond my 3rd year.

But, think now -- how did I pull off making 44 rings in short order? I found a way.

So, with that in mind, designing a commemorative 348-409 membership dash-plague is quite acheivable. I do possess the artistic skills to design a finished prototype and the knowledge of how to go about mass producing them, and I am definitely game to take on that project.

But, first off, I want to seek out ideas from you, the membership. As a year-specific commemorative, it should have as part of it, a year designation as well.

For example, it could be a small oval-shaped badge-like plaque that depicts "348-409", with a "2007", or "Clay City-07" underscore. The cost of each dash-plaque would need to cover the cost of gold and the mass-casting process. The size of such a plaque, for techincal reasons, and to keep production costs down, should be kept about 2" x 1"

Think on it, and get back to me on it.

Denis

rstreet

12-30-2006, 10:18 AM

Denis:
Yes, I would be interested...We just have to come up with an idea that will work for all members with the varied cars we have.(except that purple one I saw on here the other month:eek: ) Dick is probably headed to the "Atocha" gold sale of Melvin Joseph's to get the materials for "donation"
My daughter does creative advertising/design for several companies' ads in the US and Europe with her agency so I'll see what ideas she can come up with for a generic plaque

JimKwiatkowski

12-30-2006, 10:49 AM

I think a dash plaque in the shape of a 409 valve cover would be nice IMO :dunno

Dick MacKenzie

12-30-2006, 11:43 AM

I think a dash plaque in the shape of a 409 valve cover would be nice IMO :dunno

I like that idea! :clap :clap

region rat

12-30-2006, 11:58 AM

Denis, Is the lost wax deal like the lost foam casting technic they use on production parts mow? I rad a bit about that way being more accurate and cutting down on machining time. Bob

desapience

12-30-2006, 11:55 PM

Denis, Is the lost wax deal like the lost foam casting technic they use on production parts mow? I rad a bit about that way being more accurate and cutting down on machining time. Bob

Bob,

First, an update on '55' build-up... Today was a great day outside, not too hot, clear and sunny... Got to the shop at about 10:30-AM, and had the 'stock' rear-end on the shop floor by noon -- then, lunch. Two buddies and me made short work of it. As many of you know, there's nothing to replace good friends who also know their stuff, and working together with them for a common purpose.

Then, on to measuring and, centering the 9" housing, and setting the pinion angle, double and triple checking each measurement sequence, BEFORE tack welding the spring perches. Final welding was done over several hours, in 1" increments to avoid warping of the housing ends. Now, the housing is back home, where I'll weld the metal mounting tags for the brake-line "T", drill for the vent, smoothing the welds, and finishing and painting the housing again where the welding occured. I'll post a complete picture series when the job is complete.

The plan is to install the housing, and assemble it after it is bolted into place. Then, the driveshaft & U-joints, calipers, emergency brake cable, brake lines, etc. Most of this will happen on New Year's Day afternoon. A new 3" diameter aluminum driveshaft is slated to come a week later.

Now, for the dash-plaque...

Getting from the idea to a final penned picture, and on to a wax prototype is not as easy as many might assume. Whatever design we finally decide upon, and with approval from Bob (It might make sense to claim a registered trademark for any "348-409" insignia)..., to take the idea from a penciled picture, in full-scale, to a wax-up takes many many hours of painstaking "hand carving", and polishing of the wax. Casting waxes -- in dentistry -- are not like candle wax. Some are as hard as plastic, while others will deform at body temperature. Often, when planning raised lettering or design features, the wax-up is fabricated in layers of different waxes with completely different working characteristics and fusion temperatures (melting points). When I'm finally happy with a final carved wax-up, I then go on to fine polishing of the wax, with small patches of women's nylons, until the wax is entirely smooth, and shiney -- no flaws allowed, period!

I always like to maintain a hand-made quality to custom castings -- which gives them a richness, an antique-like rarity, and special meaning.

The wax-up is then "fitted" into, in this case, an open-ended cylinder, of a size necessary to allow for no less than 1/4" of space at all points within the cylinder. On one end of the cylinder is a rubber-cap, with a cone-shape to it on the inside. The wax-up then needs to have "spru-formers", luted (melted) to it, and this step is critical to produce a bubble free and a complete-density casting. Spruing a wax-up correctly is an art-form in itself!

Okay, now with the wax-up attached (sprued) to the cone-shaped rubber end-cap, it is very carefully assembled to the cyinder, with the wax-up ending up in the center of the cylinder, with no part of the wax-up actually touching the cylinder internally, and it must also be at least 1/4" below the end of the still open opposite end.

Now comes introducing what is termed the "refractory" material. This is a very sophisticated Plaster of Paris (calcuim sulfate), which is mixed in a cup that has a vacuum maintained in it during mixing. The mix itself is a very precise mix of calcium-sulfate powder (by weight -- in grams), and an exacting measure of water (by cc's). This mix is then very carefully poured while being carefully vibrated into the casting cylinder. A special wetting solution has already been painted onto the wax-up (and allowed to dry) before the refractory material is poured in place, to a level slightly over-flowing the open end of the cylinder.

Then, the entire cylinder is placed aside in a "humidor" to set, but NOT to completely dry out. IF extreme precision is desired, the internal wall of the cylinder is first carefully lined with an asbestos material (no need to explain why in this context, because we are not looking for a 3-D precision of 5-10 microns as we would want in a dental prosthesis -- crown).

While the casting vesicle is setting (about an hour+), the burn-out oven is brought up to a few hundred degrees F., but, no further.

When the casting vesicle is ready (the refractory material has set-up), the cone-shaped rubber cap is removed, leaving a funnel-shaped impression in the refractory material, with the "nub" of ther major wax spru-former visible at the bottom of that cone-shape. It is then placed in the burn-out oven -- and then the oven is set to VERY slowly go to 1,900-2,000 degrees F.

You see a 'refractory material' is one that can be heated to extreme temperatures WITHOUT cracking! But, to avoid cracking from heat-expansion, even good refractory materials used in casting must be SLOWLY brought to such high temperatures.

Now, while carefully monitoring the burn-out oven, the mechanical centrifuge (which is the type I own), is set so that it's spring is wound-tight (held taught in place with a locking pin), with a proper sized counterweight placed on the opposing side of the casting arm, where the casting metal will be brought to liquid form. On that end, a firing crucible, lined with asbestos, is placed and locked into place. This is a bowl-like container that will hold the molten gold.

As the burn-out oven gets close to reaching its desired high temperature, the melting of the raw gold begins, and can be achieved with a propane flame. Once molten, the gold takes on a beautiful glowing liquid and flowing appearence, and MUST be kept that way constantly to the very instant of casting the metal (the centrifuge literally throws or casts the molten gold into the receiving vesicle, at very high speed and extreme force!

What has happened to the wax-up, you ask? All waxes are cabohydrates, and at 2,000 degrees F, they first melt and completely vaporize, and exit a vent in the top of the burn-out oven. What's left behind is a void in the hardened red-hot and glowing refractory material, with the cone-shaped impression end leading directly to that void.

The move from taking the receiving vesicle from the oven to placement on the centrifuge, and sliding the crucible to butt-up flush to the casting vesicle must be doen VERY quickly (or the super-heated refractory material will begin to cool and the molten gold will also begin to slightly harden -- in seconds). Immediately, the casting arm is let loose -- and in a flash, the molten metal is directed into the casting vesicle's funneled end, and literally slammed into the refractory material's void, within the casting vesicle. The counterweight "balances" the casting end of the casting arm as it spins wildly!

The casting arm is then braked to a halt, and the vesicle tossed into a vat of cool water, with a stream of cool water constantly running over it. At that point the refractory material will often "explode", letting the raw-casting free to be processed further.

At this point the casting is checked for "bubbles", and it's completeness (not using enough gold blows the entire effort).

The casting is then smooth-shaped with various grits of small grinding disks, the spru-former areas are cut away, and then the piece is incrimentally brought to a high red or white, or blue-diamond, rouge polish, luster.

All that work produces the one prototype!

Then comes the trick to reproduce it ten-fold or a hundred-fold! Or, if there was a mis-casting, finding the cause, and going back to square one and doing is all over again. To avoid having to start completely from scratch on a complex piece, I often will take a very careful impression of the orginal wax-up, from which, if need be, I can than fairly quickly reproduce the wax-up.., and cast it again.

To give you an idea of how much effort goes into making some complex pieces, I once produced two heirloom rings, the first wax-up of which took 40+ actual work hours of fine-waxing and wax-carving -- under a macro-scope - using three types and layers of paper-thin waxes! It took another 10 hours to finely shape and polish. The second one took only ~20 hours, since I had by then developed the technique and the wax types needed for it! They remain the most complex and absolutely gorgeous pieces I have ever made... true family heirlooms.

The waxes that are hard as plastic, can be lathed, drilled, or etched by various techniques, and can themselves actually be cast!

BTW, I never reproduce licensed parts for profit or compensation of any kind!!!!

The cast foam process allows for very precise CAD-CAM forming of the casting. There is also a process where two intersecting lasers harden liquid acrylics at only the point of where the lasers intersect (computer controlled, of course). The resulting piece is then simply lifted out of the vat of the remaining liquid acrylic.

Think of the one-off custom hand-work that goes into making a single gold crown in dentistry! Or, the artisitc skills of "talented" dental techs, who handform the fired porcelains on crowns -- and yet result in a fit within 5-10 micons, which disallows even small-bacteria from finding a flaw to gain access to the tooth's subsructure (dentin)! That's why crown & bridge work is EXPENSIVE!!!

Anyway, I hope this answers most questions and explains the process of what it will take to get make 348-409 dash-plaque a reality!

Denis

desapience

12-31-2006, 04:30 PM

Three pictures of the F**D 9" getting setup for the '55'. They were taken, yesterday, 12/30/06.

Denis

JimKwiatkowski

12-31-2006, 08:07 PM

desapience

12-31-2006, 09:03 PM

Denis,I've changed my mind,I no longer want my fender badges done in 18K gold.I checked the weight on 2 crossed flags and two 409 scripts,total weight is 146.4 Grams.I've decided that I would like my 409 hat pin done for me and also a pair of earrings,for my wife done in 18K gold.I think gold fender badges would be way too much money for you and way too much worry for me of losing a badge or them being stolen.I hope you agree with me,I'm enclosing a photo of my hat pin.

Your 9 inch rear end and your exhaust system looks Great :D

Jim,

Not a problem -- send the hatpin. As for your wife, do I get to provide the design of my choice? I can assure you she will NOT reject them... Does she prefer a straight stud, or a hook loop attachment (assuming her ears are pierced)?

You're probably correct in the gold fender badges being at risk for being stolen. Gold is always very easily turned into cash.

I spent a couple hours today painting the 9" housing, along with eating a fine fried turkey dinner-meal! Two coats of primer, two black color-coats, and two clear-coats.

Thanks for the nice comments.

Happy New Year!

Denis

JimKwiatkowski

12-31-2006, 09:27 PM

desapience

01-01-2007, 12:11 AM

Thanks Denis,my wife likes the hook loop attachment and design them of your choice.I'll mail the hat pin Tuesday and take your time.

Did you paint your leaf springs,I noticed red paint on your springs and frame :dunno

Jim,

Okay... hook loops it is.

LOL.. good eyes. My buddies got onto me about the overspray too! The body was painted after it was back on the frame (the paint-job is going on 7 years old).

We also talked a bit about upgrading the leaf springs and traction bars, along with the plan to go to a 3" aluminum driveshaft. I'll be detailing and cleaning the frame and under-body tomorrow afternoon. The over-spray is very superficial and will wipe away with laquer thinner, no sweat. I'm sure we'll run into something tomorrow that will cause a need for the '55' to stay in the shop most of the week to finish up or to get parts (the rear-end was missing a small rachet piece on the emergency brake mechanism, for example).

Installing the 4L60E, with the TCI computer controller comes next, but, I'm honestly still unsure about installing the 482, even if I had plenty of time to prepare it for the February CCI show.

Denis

JimKwiatkowski

01-01-2007, 12:01 PM

desapience

01-01-2007, 01:06 PM

Denis,you have 5 weeks to get your 55 ready for the car show,I don't how much work you have left to do on your 55,but IMO I would start installing the 482 next week,or wait till after the show to install the 482.I would make a list of things to do to the 55 and how much time to do that task,don't forget about the time you need for cleaning and detailing the 55 :dunno.You don't want to be rushed installing a new engine and trying to get all the bugs worked out you might run into.If you do decide to install the 482,I would install the Crossram with the engine on the stand,there is about 4 bolts that are difficult to install,also use Permatex form a gasket around the water ports on both sides of the intake gasket.

Jim,

I had the intake water-port leak problem when I first fired up the 446, but, it was due to an oversight in tightening the intake manifold, and I was lucky in that no water got into the oil -- not one drop. I also used .093" solid copper head gaskets on the 446, which came only rough-cut -- with all the head-bolt holes having been formed by a punch-press, but, the cylinder holes were under punched so much so that I had to trace a Fel-Pro gasket's outline on them and very carefully rout them to size. It's a good thing I had to do that....

There's a great article in Hot-Rod Magazine's current February 2007 issue, page 26 ,"Roddin' at Random -- about gasket manufacturing. Regarding the copper head gaskets. On page 27, item #3, the article discusses the "work hardening" nature of solid copper when they are punch-cut, at the areas directly bordering the punched-out holes. Such gaskets should be "annealed" (heat treated) to return the copper metal lattices to be again uniform with the remaining body of the gasket. I did not anneal the gaskets, and to date have not had any sealing problems. I did, however, use a carefully even-sprayed copper sealer, and as I said, I likely removed the work-hardened portions of the gasket when I hand trimmed them, as I did (around the cylinder holes).

I will definitely take your advice on the permatex at the M/T intake water ports though, as I have heard of the leak problem in those areas before too!

Jim, I do virtually everything using "to-do" lists, and you're correct in that I need to make a timely decision on whether or not to install the 482, within the next few days. I had planned on installing the M/T, and vitually everything on the engine before installing it. I will be using two engine-lift plates, one per carb flange, and an adjustable beam to simulatanoeusly attach to both of them, and have complete control of the installation anglulations.

But, there is so much more to do, including of course the installation of the new BIG Griffen downflow, whcih will likely surface a few new obstacles, as well. I've already re-fabricated yet another custom hood latch to gain another 3/4' clearance between the A/C condensor and the latch (55's have very little space to work with there as compared to the 56 and 57's).

Actually, to tell you the truth, installing the 4L60E, and the TCI computer control unit, will require far more time (to do it correctly) than one might first assume. There is a spaghetti wire nightmare to alter and, make nice to have a factory look to it..., and then, to properly program it, using a laptop PC. I may very well decide to install the 482, and wait until after the CCI show to do the 4L60E.

Detailing the '55' will be done over about 2-days, with a slew of my buddies all chipping in, starting with putting the '55' on a lift -- cleaning everything in sight. A new carpet awaits installation as well (despite "old" one still being in great condition).

Today itself is a loss here.., raining all day so far, and the shop becomes a humidor when the doors have to ber closed. But, I will use the time to plan, order a few parts online, etc.

Happy New Year!

Denis

dq409

01-01-2007, 09:56 PM

For example, it could be a small oval-shaped badge-like plaque that depicts "348-409", with a "2007", or "Clay City-07" underscore. Think on it, and get back to me on it.

Denis

OK,, I think on it !!!

NO OVAL !!!! think F**D,,,,,

And,.,,,, Think 348-409.com,,,,, NOT any specific event !!!!:clap

I`m tired of being left out of the fun because of the miles between us !!:cuss

Maybe you guys can form your own Clay City club or forum !!!!:evil

But really,,, do you want to make something that we ALL can enjoy,,, or just the chosen few,,,???

Maybe make it so there is a spot/area on the plaque where you can add or engrave a special date/event.

This would keep the cost down and you can use the oridginal design over and over for different dates/events,,,

REMEMBER,,, this forum is for ALL of us,,,,,:cheers

rstreet

01-01-2007, 10:24 PM

Denis
I agree with dq on his thoughts(huh!:D ) I like the 348-409.com concept because that is what brought us to the show. We ca'nt really help him just because he loves to live where it rains every day:rofl
Robert

JimKwiatkowski

01-01-2007, 10:27 PM

OK,, I think on it !!!

NO OVAL !!!! think F**D,,,,,

And,.,,,, Think 348-409.com,,,,, NOT any specific event !!!!:clap

I`m tired of being left out of the fun because of the miles between us !!:cuss

Maybe you guys can form your own Clay City club or forum !!!!:evil

But really,,, do you want to make something that we ALL can enjoy,,, or just the chosen few,,,???

Maybe make it so there is a spot/area on the plaque where you can add or engrave a special date/event.

This would keep the cost down and you can use the oridginal design over and over for different dates/events,,,

REMEMBER,,, this forum is for ALL of us,,,,,:cheers

dq,your right this forum is for all of us,here's a photo of the name tags we used in Clay City in 2006

rstreet

01-01-2007, 10:31 PM

Denis
I think Jim's badge is getting there but could you erase his name from my badge:D :D

desapience

01-01-2007, 11:16 PM

Guys,

I by no means would try to impose any dash-plaque design on anyone. A distinct majority of those wanting to contribute ideas, must agree.

I can make anything I want for myself, anyway :rofl

I like the idea of leaving a smooth-blank portion on whatever we end up with, to be engraved for varied events. But, for the hard-core guys, they may want a 4"x4" area to list every event they attend on the same plaque!!!

Just keep thinking on it, and understand too that we do want and NEED Bob to okay anything we (or he) comes up with... :cuss

Okay "oval" is out... "348-409" is in (the running)...

Valve cover outline, like the nametags??

Remember try to keep the size down, and practicle...

HEY!!!!

Should it be made as a metalized business-card size plaque, with a stickie back, or maybe even a magnetic backing?

My 31 Chevy couipe has a dozen or more of them, dating back to the late 60's from Salt Lake shows. This way, we could simply order up the new cards, using a basic insignia of sorts, with plenty of room for specifics..

Good idea? Yes, no?

Denis

Ronnie Russell

01-01-2007, 11:35 PM

Denis, I like the metalized business card idea with the magnetic back. But of course, what ever the majority votes for is great with me....:)

rwagon57

01-02-2007, 02:57 PM

I like the business card sized traditional dash plaque as well. They are easy to modify for dates and events and inexpensive to produce.

jim_ss409

01-02-2007, 06:03 PM

desapience

01-02-2007, 08:40 PM

I gotta agree, the business card style plaque sounds like a great idea.:beerbang Although it never seems important at the time, it's nice to have something like a plaque or a sticker from an event you attended.

Well, it sure sounds like the metalized buisness card-sized dash-plaque is being well received enough to put it up for a vote.

IF it comes out that this is what the Forum prefers, we'll then search-out in depth ideas for a basic design on it, which, should leave enough room on it to accomodate an event's specifics (City, date, honor received, etc).
Also, think...., should it be metalized in a golden color, chrome, silver, of some of each depending upon an event, honor received, etc.???

Should it be with a sticky-back, or a magnetic backing???

Come on now, someone needs to step up to the plate now -- to call for a vote -- by first explaining the idea's background and purpose, and then asking for a vote. IMO, we should have it voted upon over a period of time - maybe one or two weeks (to get input from the guys who sign-on less feequently too), and have it made as some sort of announcement that everyone will obviously see when they first sign-on, or WHEN THEY visit the homepage.

Denis

JimKwiatkowski

01-02-2007, 09:27 PM

Phil Reed

01-02-2007, 10:39 PM

I gotta agree, the business card style plaque sounds like a great idea.:beerbang Although it never seems important at the time, it's nice to have something like a plaque or a sticker from an event you attended.

Jim:

Did you put your "dash plaque" from the convention on the dash of your 62????:rofl :rofl

I thought the 348 and 409 mile marker signs were perfect for that!!!!!:clap :clap Maybe overkill for some but mildly understated for most!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:rofl :rofl

desapience

01-02-2007, 11:04 PM

Denis,I also like the Business card metalized.Our Mini Conventions are not very big,in 2005 at the Blue Sued Cruise we had 7 409 cars and maybe 20 members attend.At Clay City we had about 10 409 cars and maybe 20 members attend.The West Coast members is even smaller.So I don't think many dash plaques would be needed.So far at the Blue Sued Cruise in July,we have 13 members attending and some of those are maybes.The Clay City get together hasn't got off the ground yet :dunno

Jim,

The numbers you cited sound dismal! But, either we all work together to make something happen, or it all fades away. I would like to see that trend change.

Just in the past 2-3 years, it's obvious that efforts have been made to get updated parts out there -- heads, intakes, headers (Sanderson), distributors (MSD), water-pumps, and even updated blocks coming along.

Creating a membership dash-plaque and making them available, can't hurt...

Let's see how many more of the members respond with their own input on its design.

Denis

jim_ss409

01-03-2007, 12:38 AM

It's hard to get a large group together because of the vast distances involved but there was a parking lot full of 348-409 cars at the big convention in 2004. About 75 cars I think:scratch and hundreds of people. Many flew in or drove their regular cars. One guy took the bus all the way from New York.:deal There was six or seven Z-11 cars there! I doubt that there has ever been that many in one place at the same time. There was everything from daily drivers to awesome customs and perfectly restored show cars. Most of the fastest drag racers were there too. Phil Reed hosted an amazing event that nobody that was there will ever forget!

In 2005 we got a small group together and went to The Blue Suede Cruise at Norwalk Ohio. Everybody had a blast.

Last year we went to Clay city Kentucky and the group got bigger. Once again everybody had a great time.

This year it looks like we'll have a pretty good gang at the Blue Suede Cruise and I think many are waiting to see if the Clay City event will be on or not before committing to the Blue Suede Cruise.

It's hard to say if we'll ever get a huge group together like we had in 2004 but maybe these regional events will continue to grow. They sure are a lot of fun.:beerbang

It would be cool to have dash plaques or even a sticker that we could sell to the people who attend these events. I know I'd buy one. I've got stickers from the big 2004 convention and one from the Clay City Shootout on my 55 Chevy. I get quite a few people asking me about those events. I don't know if there would be enough interest to make it worthwhile getting a bunch done. I guess it would depend on the cost. plaque the shape of a valve cover would be cool but it would probably cost quite a bit more. Maybe a sticker would be a cheaper way to go.:dunno We can probably use a variation of the 348-409 club logo but if we do decide to go ahead with the idea and come up with another style of logo it might be best to start a new thread.

Here's a photo of most of the cars involved in the racing at Clay City last year.

desapience

01-04-2007, 09:00 PM

Guys,

Well, the 9" F**D rear-end is in bolted place, complete with 3rd member (Richmond 3.50:1, posi), and drive shaft and U-joints. Nothing was overlooked - all new bearings, seals, etc... No shortening or lengthening of the driveshaft was necessary, which was a pleasant surprise!

New calipers, brake pads, axel seals & bearings, emergency brake cables and all new rubber brake hoses, and lines will be installed tomorrow -- should be rollin' and a rockin' for Saturday night!

Installing the 4L60E and TCI computer controller will begin VERY soon. I'm also awaiting a new carpet set -- in "Daytona"material -- the TCI computer will be installed under the front bench seat, when the carpet arrives.

As for installing the 482... time is the limiting factor. I may simply install the cross-ram on my 446, along with the BIG Griffen downflow, and take it to the CCI show that way. Lots of other details -- new vent window chrome frames, and front glass will also be changed-out.

We shall see.... :dunno

Denis

desapience

01-08-2007, 08:30 PM

Guys,

The update is minor... my '55' now sports a 9" F**D posi 3.50:1 rear-end, and it runs very nicely. Still some small problems to over-come though. The emergency brakes on a 79 Versailles are of the ball-cam type, with an automatice adjuster system that has caused problems in the first time they are adjusted up.

I'm having trouble getting the emergency brake arms on the F**D 9" calipers to have ANY real affect! I'm certain the ball-cam mechanism is working, but, there's a spring-loaded self adjuster that just refuses to expand to snug-up things.

Does anyone know how they are first adjusted to work? I understand the adjuster's mechanical inards, and how the ball-cam mechanism, and thrust screw work..., just cannot seem able to figure out how to get them set initially.:dunno

Outside of that, I'll be tidying up the installation... it looks great, the lower gear (going from a 3.23:1 to a 3.50:1) does show stronger accelleration, but, how much better accelerating it is will not be tried until break-in is completed..

Next on the agenda is installing the 4L60E. First, I'll be installing the TCI computer controller, making sure all electrical connections are fully prepared, beforehand. A new floor carpet will be installed with it.

Once that's done, the '55' goes back to my buddy's shop (on Saturday), for the install of the 4L60E, and programming it with a lap-top.

Whaever time I have remaining after that chore is completed, will define if the 482 is also intstalled now, or installed at a later date. SAme goes for installing the M/T cross-ram intake.

Denis

rstreet

01-08-2007, 09:29 PM

Denis
Sounds great.... keep us informed of the progress up until showtime. I am going to be interested on how the transmission and programing works out(fasinating). You don't need my lap top to program because it is full of s..t programs:D :D or lumen calculations:rofl :rofl :rofl
Robert

JimKwiatkowski

01-08-2007, 09:30 PM

desapience

01-08-2007, 11:46 PM

Denis,when I get to work tomorrow I'll see if we still have any work shop manuals on the Lincoln rear disk brakes.

I would install the Crossram next,then your new pulley system and Cross flow Radiator if time :dunno.Get as much Chrome and polished Aluminum installed for the car show

Jim,

Great! The problem I'm having with the emergency brakes is with getting the internal adusters to snug-up on the initial install, which would also be a recurrance if simply changing out to new pads.

The calipers are of 1979 vintage (Versailles). I believe I'm very close to solving the issue, but, more information would be greatly appreciated, thank you. I have to fabricate entirely different braking arms for the cables to attach to, which should also be a challenge.

Given the time-crunch, I believe you're correct in that I should simply install the cross-ram on the 446, and leave installing the 482 for the next go-around. But, the 4L60 will be tackled first (beginning this weekend). The BIG Griffen should install without big problems, and I'll do that, time permitting. I'm hoping I have time for the new radiator, since doing so will give easy access to detailing the frame and billet brackets.

The yourcover's valve covers should be shipped to me sometime this week, overnight air. That way, I can mock-up the cross-ram on the 482 to be certain they'll fit correctly under the cross-ram. I should also get the new "Daytona" carpet this week.

I've got a couple of good friends here that are helping out -- we all would like to see a '409' take another show, and actually be worthy of it, as well.

Anyway, let me know what you can dig up on the emergency brake adjusters.

Thanks,
Denis