Iron case 4-speeds

[tripower]

Well two of my buddies and I did a little junk yard scrounging today...:brow The junk yard we found has a lot of 50's and sixties cars. I found several iron case 4-speeds. The one that most interested me had casting # 8273245 on the case with date codes G214 and side cover casting # 395264 with date code G194. Can anyone tell me what these are and what they would be worth? Would they be Borg Warner or saganaw? There were about 4 or 5 others with what appeared to be 66 - 67 date codes. The owner said he wanted 150.00 for the iron case 4-speeds. He also has a very nice 62 Impala fawn dash with radio switches and gauges temp, clock, fuel, no speedo, I thought I might pic up for resale.

[1958 delivery]

Probably Saginaws. Considered weaker than a muncie. I have a 100% orig '67 El Co 327 4 spd. It came with the saginaw..I would have thought for sure it would have had the Muncie..but they used both in non-high horsepower applications. The 327 is the 275 horse version.

[tripower]

Probably Saginaws. Considered weaker than a muncie. I have a 100% orig '67 El Co 327 4 spd. It came with the saginaw..I would have thought for sure it would have had the Muncie..but they used both in non-high horsepower applications. The 327 is the 275 horse version.

How can you tell the difference between the saginaw and the BW?:dunno and when did GM start using Muncie?

[real61ss]

I believe the Saginaw can be indentified by the reverse arm being located in the main case whereas the Muncie and the BW had the reverse arm in the tail shaft.
As for the first use of the Muncie in a Chevrolet....the Baltimore plant was the first to use them and it occured in Feb of 1963.

[tripowerguy]

You powershift a Saginaw and you end up with teeth in the bottom of the case.:cuss Roy

[real61ss]

"You powershift a Saginaw and you end up with teeth in the bottom of the case. Roy"


I guess that's another way to tell one from the other .......power shift it one time, if you got anything left....it ain't a Saginaw!!!!:D

[rstreet]

I believe the Saginaw can be indentified by the reverse arm being located in the main case whereas the Muncie and the BW had the reverse arm in the tail shaft.
As for the first use of the Muncie in a Chevrolet....the Baltimore plant was the first to use them and it occured in Feb of 1963.
Tommy: Interesting fact above. They recently closed Baltimore but why was it the chosen one in history. I seem to remember that the 61 409's were built there.Hope I not giving away a 61 secret!! Also I thought there was some connection with the 63's but I don't remember if it was NASCAR related or drag race related
Robert

[tripower]

I was at the corvette high performance swap meet in Puyallup, WA. yesterday and found a correct date code BW 4-speed for my car. This 4-speed had a aluminum case and tailshaft. I was under the impression that the early 4-speeds had iron case and aluminum tailshaft. After talking with a few people that specialize in the corvette & high performance Chevrolet stuff they told me that the corvettes and high performance passenger cars all used the aluminum case BW 4-speed...:dunno Anyone have any input here?

[MRHP]

I have heard that before too. My 62 ss 409 car has an all aluminun t 10 4 speed in it. :dunno

[Phil Reed]

Richard is right!! The 62 409's and 300HP 327 had aluminum case 4-speeds. The 250HP 327 and 283's in 62 had iron cases.

[real61ss]

"Richard is right!! The 62 409's and 300HP 327 had aluminum case 4-speeds. The 250HP 327 and 283's in 62 had iron cases"

And.....he's also right about the 61's....the '61 409's used the aluminum case transmission and all other '61's used the iron case.

[gearhead409]

i don't ever remember seeing a 62 factory 283 4speed car. must be some rare option i don't know about!!!!

[tripower]

Thanks guys for getting me straight there.

[gearhead409]

i con.cur Richard!

[Phil Reed]

I'm wanting to attach some pictures here to prove what I posted was......WRONG!!! But the pictures have been posted before and I don't know how to bring them back up for this thread.

These pictures are ones I have from an original 1962 Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price poster and a 1962 Options Retail Price poster. In checking this out, it shows the 4-speed for the 250HP engine was an additional $188.20. So this would eliminate the 283. I have seen 6-cylinder SS's and thought that the 4-speed was just an option for any engine like all the other options. This proves I was WRONG!!!!

The other pictures I wanted to show here are in another thread titled 62 & 64 4 door Impalas. If anyone could post it here for me I would appreciate it. The other pictures show the retail prices for 1962. The Super Sport option was $156.05 and a posi was $43.05. The 4-speed for the 300HP, 380HP & 409HP engines options was $236.75. The higher price was for the high-nickel gear sets. These posters have a lot of good old time information!!

[gearhead409]

i believe the higher priced 4speed with the high performance engines included the tac. 250HP got the $188 trans without the tac.

[gearhead409]

you taught me well Richard, Thanks! now if i could just figure out this high nickel gear thing with the early t-10s???

[Impalaguru]

That's funny! I was just thinking about the high-nickel 4-speeds while I was at work today! OOPS! I hope the boss doesn't read this!

When I was a Phil's shop one time Wayne Euper was there to drop off some restored 4-speeds. I asked about the high-nickel gears, and if I remember correctly he said that there is a little dot on the side of the gear to show that it was of the high-nickel variety. Maybe I'm incorrect in my recollection?

Ross

[gearhead409]

do these gears have a different part number? i don't see it in the parts books.

[Phil Reed]

I just posted in the 58-65 car section from an old thread that had pictures to look at. I couldn't get the pictures to post here.

I'll check the parts books tomorrow Loren. I have a high-nickel gear set. I'll take some pictures to post here.

[real61ss]

Phil,
Are you sure about the '62 small motor car's having iron case transmissions? I believe all '62's had aluminum case transmissions. You may be thinking about the 250 horse motors having iron bellhousings, which they did and the 300 horse cars had the aluminum bellhousing.
I don't think the 4 speed was available witht the 283 in '62.
But..... I could be wrong....wouldn't be the first time.

[Phil Reed]

Tommy:

Let me do some checking tomorrow. I was sure that the 62 & 63 250HP 4-speeds had cast iron cases...just like the bellhousings. The high/perf were aluminum in both cases.

[tripower]

According to Chevrolet by numbers by Alan L. Colvin the T10-1B cast iron case was used from June 1959 until January 1961. The T10-1C cast aluminum case was used in 1961-62 Corvette applications and 1961 Passenger car 409 applications only. All other Chevrolet Passenger car applications used the T10-1B case.

[51T409]

I've been watching this thread and wondering if you ever found the part number for the high nickel gear set and the pictures you were going to post . just wondering thanks

[51T409]

did you find that part number and picture for the high- nickel gear set you have . thanks