Aluminum heads and blocks

[impalamike.com]

Whats the latest? Are the heads finished? -Mike

[threeimpalas]

I sent Bob a PM earlier this week asking about the status. Here's what he told me.

... I did finally get correct flow #'s.They did 308@900 lift. We are doing a ported version that will go 370+. For now I got a guy to do them by hand. Might go cnc later...

...Also. the patterns for the block could b done in a couple months...

[1958 delivery]

I don't remember if I was reading an older post or a new one, but didn't they estimate the price for the heads to be in the $4000 range? Ouch!

[Ronnie Russell]

The last I heard was $2,500 bare----$3,000 ready to run. If that is correct, I think that is a very fair price. We should know something soon. I realize many are tired of hearing that, but things are getting done.

[Skip FIx]

Definitely a fair price. Average plain jane Edebrocks are around $2K for a Pontiac plus any porting. The Pontiac Tiger racing heads are $5500 complete!

[Ronnie Russell]

I think there may have been a typo in region rats post. I think it should say 308@ .600 ......... Please correct me if I'm wrong, Bob.

[Rockfish39]

Ronnie, for comparison sake, would you happen to know what stock 690s flow at??? How about 817's??? Thanks!

[Dick MacKenzie]

Definitely a fair price. Average plain jane Edebrocks are around $2K for a Pontiac plus any porting. The Pontiac Tiger racing heads are $5500 complete!


Have to agree! $4k is a fair price, $3,000 is a real deal!

[Ronnie Russell]

First of all, ooops, my mistake..... 300@.600 308@.900 Rock, Showcars cat. list the 690s at 260. Not sure if that is accurate or not. In a different thread we have been discussing this and petepedlar has offered to flow all of them in the future. It will be interesting to get numbers from the same source on all the heads. If the 260 figure is accurate, that would make Bob's 300 a significant gain, not to mention tthe advantage of lower weight. :)

[1958 delivery]

Have to agree! $4k is a fair price, $3,000 is a real deal!



Are we talking race heads?
$4K for street heads is absurd. Of course making onesey twosey is very expensive.
What are you guys paying for GM steel heads for these engines?

[Ronnie Russell]

1958 delivery, #690s are selling on e-bay for $2,500 bare. $1,000 more to put them into shape. Screw-in studs, p.c. seals, new springs, stainless valves, etc. And much, much more if you pay someone for bowl work. $3,000 for a set of ready to run , brand new aluminum heads seems very reasonable to most of us. Does this mean you are having second thoughts about playing our game?? It's just money, gotta spend it on something. Vrooooom Vrooom . 409s , yeah!!

[threeimpalas]

$2500-3000 seems like a fair price for a set of what will be "rare" ready-to-run aluminum heads produced by a small shop for a low demand engine.

AFR, TrickFlow, etc, heads for the LSx engines are in the same $$$ range, even though the production volume is higher and the potential market is much larger.

[1958 delivery]

1958 delivery, #690s are selling on e-bay for $2,500 bare. $1,000 more to put them into shape. Screw-in studs, p.c. seals, new springs, stainless valves, etc. And much, much more if you pay someone for bowl work. $3,000 for a set of ready to run , brand new aluminum heads seems very reasonable to most of us. Does this mean you are having second thoughts about playing our game?? It's just money, gotta spend it on something. Vrooooom Vrooom . 409s , yeah!!



I hadn't realized 409 heads were going for so much. I checked and they seem to be about $2K used around here. Yes, another $1000 or more to prep them right. So might as well spend the $3-4K for new alum.

[dq409]

Rich`s heads ready to run should be in the $3000 range !!!

[CDNpontiac409guy]

Just for comparison...
The heads on my Stocker, measured at .510" lift... flowed 288 / 212
I've never checked at higher lift, because that's all the lift I can use. :dunno

[fatride]

Curt Harvey listed the High Performance 409 head at 255/260 cfm out of the box in 2000. He did not give lift #s. Aubreys figure of 288 is very impressive. Aubrey, did you use some Smokey yunick magic to achive those numbers :eek:

[jim_ss409]

These new heads are good news for those of us that just want to go a little faster. And I think the price range is about right for low production parts.

At the big convention, I remember Lamar Walden saying something about 280 cfm or so is about the most he's seen from 690/583 heads. So Aubrey's obviously done a good job porting those heads.:cheers

An article I read with Curt Harvey as the source says that stock Z-11 style heads flow about 300 cfm.

[Wild Bill Burge]

Checked Lamar Walden's price on his web site and his aluminum Z-11 heads are $5999.00 complete. Of course I had a set of these heads about 10 years ago on a 482 blower motor that Lamar built. You could drop an egg through the intake ports! He also built my original Z-11 motor in the 80's that was raced in the "Living Legend" at many Super Chevy events. At an invitation only deal held at Milian, MI I beat the the Ford club's fastest T-Bolt in the final running a 10:80! Never got ask back! Actually, the picture on my profile page was taken at Milian that same weekend; look close at the front wheels.

Might check out you 409 guys at this years Norwalk show, I think around July1st.

Wild Bill Burge
"The Living legend"

[jim_ss409]

Bill, It'd be great to see you again.:beerbang I wish I was there to see you beat that Thunderbolt.:beerbang
Do you know who has your old car now?

[CDNpontiac409guy]

Aubreys figure of 288 is very impressive. Aubrey, did you use some Smokey yunick magic to achive those numbers :eek:


sshh:p ...
Not really, Fat. Gotta watch what you do with these things.... especially since the intake doesn't even need to be removed in order to see down some of the ports.
Mostly a REALLY fancy 3rd angle into the bowl. Valves also have a "creative" seat. In the exhaust port, the valve guide boss has been "spot faced"... which milled away a bit of the obstruction. I'm sure that's where most of the improvement came from in the exhaust.
Not much is really gained from porting, when measured at such low lift.

[CDNpontiac409guy]

MAN, to have seen Wild Bill do that:bow :bow :bow

Why does EVERYTHING happen out east ?:bang

Oh.... Mr. Burge... can you post a full size version of that photo ? !

[hogmotors]

We might ask Tony Shaffer what he's found on flow. I'd guess that he's had as much expirence as anyone.
I think that you'll find Lamar's heads MUCH more than the $5900+ by the time they are done, NOT including the manifold.
Personally, I'd be @ the front of the line for 4-5grand. Of course I don't currently have a street car.
I'm with Skip, Very Reasonable.

[jim_ss409]

We should have a set of Bob's aluminum heads on the 55 pretty soon. They're really close to being ready. We've also ordered a new cam. So I can't wait to see how it does in the spring. Maybe those lighter heads will just enough to get the front wheels off the ground.:D

[impalamike.com]

Please post some bigger picks of your '63!!

[impalamike.com]

I am definately looking forward to the new heads!!!

[walkerheaders]

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p74/walkerheaders/wildbill640x480.jpg

[walkerheaders]

here's "Wild Bill" at norwalk '05 with my red 63. I let him drive it, and i took him for a hellride down the 1/4

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p74/walkerheaders/MVC-010F.jpg

[walkerheaders]

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p74/walkerheaders/63_impala_legend.gif

[CDNpontiac409guy]

[QUOTE=walkerheaders;66828]QUOTE]


ooooh YEAH !:bow :bow :beerbang

[Phil Reed]

Bob:

Forget pictures of Bill!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!............pictures of Bill's car are great BUT..............post the one with Linda Vaughn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:clap :clap :rofl :rofl

[tripowerguy]

Or Jungle Jim's wife guiding him back into starting position.:clap :clap Roy

[rstreet]

yeah...I remember that picture also!!!!

[dynoray]

with all this talk of these new head flow numbers as well as the 690/583 heads,what intake is supposed to be used to get this flow on an engine? the flow bench sure shows great numbers,but we have no intake to compliment this? what is the general feeling here.

[jim_ss409]

Yeah, a new intake would be great. I think Bob and Rich are probably working on it. I built a tunnel ram, and before that I smoothed out the worst corners from the factory dual quad. They say 1" open spacers help the factory dual quad too. I've never tried it but I think Aubrey might have mentioned this idea... You could weld a little extra aluminum to the top of an Offy dual quad intake. Then port it to the big port size. I could see that working pretty well. Some of the racers, like Allen in Bluescreamer have altered the factory dual quad so that it actually becomes a single plane manifold. It works great and you've got to look pretty hard to notice that it's been modified. I think the manifold that Lamar sells only fits Z-11 style raised port heads.:scratch
I guess a good Victor Jr style single plane intake would be a nice thing to see or maybe a Performer RPM air gap style setup. Or maybe a nice new dual quad setup that could be run on the street would be great. I think a single plane intake might be the easiest to cast. :scratch

[Dick MacKenzie]

Or Jungle Jim's wife guiding him back into starting position.:clap :clap Roy

Here's one of Jungle Pam. She wasn't his wife BTW.
http://media.putfile.com/JunglePam

[region rat]

Hey, Guys. Sorry for being absent. Got flow #'s last week. Exhaust was pretty decent.225@700.
Intake came out close to what we wanted.
91@100
148@200
211@300
267@400
28@500
300@600
305@700
307@800
309@900
These were at 28"of vacuum.
Air moved through rather quietly, which should mean very little turbulance. Should haelp go over 600 HP without too much trouble. Tell me what you think. Thanks for your patiance. Region Rat

[region rat]

I made arrangements to be able to supply us with Manley's entire product line @ reasonable prices. Contact me if you need valves or rods or any of their line. special Forums discounts.Also working on MSD.
Patterns for the block might be done in a couple months. Already started working on a single plane intake, but will cost a bunch to finish. Want to make an air-gap style.
# sets of heads are mostly done, waiting now for seats. They will be 3/8 tall and interlocking, another extra step, but makes for
a better head.
More cores are on order and soon as they come in a much larger batch of heads will be cast. Once I have some sitting on the shelf I'll post info on deposits and give a delivery date.Hang in there. Region Rat

[dq409]

with all this talk of these new head flow numbers as well as the 690/583 heads,what intake is supposed to be used to get this flow on an engine? the flow bench sure shows great numbers,but we have no intake to compliment this? what is the general feeling here.

The intake that Rich is building should be completed VERY soon !!!:clap
It will be just what everyone is hoping it will be.

It will compliment his heads and will work with all the stock HP heads and can be used as a single or dual carb manifold !!!
OR,,, you can change the top carb plate to accept any number of carb configurations you want !!!:brow


STAY TUNED !!!! ,,dq

[Thirdyfivepickup]

I made arrangements to be able to supply us with Manley's entire product line @ reasonable prices. Contact me if you need valves or rods or any of their line. special Forums discounts.Also working on MSD.

If I can be of any help on this, please let me know. I'm just minutes away from you with $20,000,000 worth of performance parts. :)

[oil4kids]

ordered a set of z11 heads from Lamar....................over a year ago and still waiting for delivery

[threeimpalas]

...# sets of heads are mostly done, waiting now for seats...

Have you considered (or will you be) stamping a "serial" number into each head? Might be a handy and nice thing to have 'X' years on down the line when people want to know how many of them were produced and how early/late their set is (provided they bought them used, etc).

[Ronnie Russell]

Bob, I like Mikes idea too. Serial numbers on each head. Years from now it may make a big differance. :)

[jim_ss409]

Yeah, serial numbers are a great idea. Who knows, someday these heads may be highly sought after vintage speed parts. Who would have thought that M/T Crossrams would be selling for big bucks?

[rstreet]

yeah, I agree with s/n each head especially when changes occur. Also more importantly I will wait on ordering so I can get head number 409:D :D
Robert