Cam replacement
- Thread starter jester
- Start date
Do you think with your cam combination you could run power brake? and also what about stock rocker arms? I am pure stock
kevin Quik9r
I can't speak for Yellow Wagon, but I doubt that there is enough vacuum for power brakes; I could be wrong, because I never tried them or checked the vacuum, I just wanted to be able to get the valve covers off easily.
As for the rockers, I am using cranes with screw-in studs and showcar guide plates (583 heads) so I don't know if the slots in the stockers will allow .600 lift or if stamped rockers would be a good plan.
As far as the heads go, the BWRs or Edelbrocks would be my choice, I'd recommend that you call Jack and talk to him before taking the leap, he is a great resource.
As for the rockers, I am using cranes with screw-in studs and showcar guide plates (583 heads) so I don't know if the slots in the stockers will allow .600 lift or if stamped rockers would be a good plan.
As far as the heads go, the BWRs or Edelbrocks would be my choice, I'd recommend that you call Jack and talk to him before taking the leap, he is a great resource.
CDNpontiac409guy
Banned
Phil, I can't afford to pay him. Maybe that's why he has no money ?
In all seriousness though
I have a 64 400 HP wagon here. Came from the factory with 583 heads and the newly introduced Z11 cam profile. The car HAS factory power brakes. Not sure how well they work though
no matter
it's a lazy, archaic, inefficient profile. COMPLETELY unnecessary today.
Undoubtedly, an M22 ( with that ridiculous 2.20 first gear ) is also a SURE way to stifle performance and drivability.
New Super T10's are available with a 2.64 and 2.88 1st gear. I understand not wanting to go Tremec or the like.
Stock 409 's, with a modern cam, and good tune, can be more fun than they EVER were "back in the day"
In all seriousness though
I have a 64 400 HP wagon here. Came from the factory with 583 heads and the newly introduced Z11 cam profile. The car HAS factory power brakes. Not sure how well they work though
no matter
it's a lazy, archaic, inefficient profile. COMPLETELY unnecessary today.
Undoubtedly, an M22 ( with that ridiculous 2.20 first gear ) is also a SURE way to stifle performance and drivability.
New Super T10's are available with a 2.64 and 2.88 1st gear. I understand not wanting to go Tremec or the like.
Stock 409 's, with a modern cam, and good tune, can be more fun than they EVER were "back in the day"
I too would doubt there is enough vacuum for power brakes. I run a non-power assist dual master cylinder with drum-drum brakes with Napa shoes and Raybestos drums. Stops pretty good.
I run the Scorpion 1.75 roller rocker to make the most out of the camshaft and combination of parts....I didn't want to settle for 1.7:1 ratio and give up even a little bit. The cam is agressive but not unbearable. Like I said, my motor starts and idles well. I use Energy Suspension motor mounts with the 409 as well so the lumpy cam does shake the car but again nothing unbearable. My car is a 4-speed 2.52:1 Muncie M20 with an Eaton posi with 3.73s so I don't have to worry about a converter. I would suggest if this motor is in an auto car, that a looser converter should be used....3000rpm stall speed would be good. You get what you pay for with a converter!! And no reason why a 3000rpm stall speed won't work well in a street car if the converter is a good one. If anyone needs a good converter, talk to Ron at Clocks Off Racing in Racine, WI: (877)247-7223. He is a dealer for Neal Chance converters and he can help you select the right one for your needs/vehicle weight/HP etc. Tell him J (aka Yellow Wagon) sent ya. Great guy!
I run the Scorpion 1.75 roller rocker to make the most out of the camshaft and combination of parts....I didn't want to settle for 1.7:1 ratio and give up even a little bit. The cam is agressive but not unbearable. Like I said, my motor starts and idles well. I use Energy Suspension motor mounts with the 409 as well so the lumpy cam does shake the car but again nothing unbearable. My car is a 4-speed 2.52:1 Muncie M20 with an Eaton posi with 3.73s so I don't have to worry about a converter. I would suggest if this motor is in an auto car, that a looser converter should be used....3000rpm stall speed would be good. You get what you pay for with a converter!! And no reason why a 3000rpm stall speed won't work well in a street car if the converter is a good one. If anyone needs a good converter, talk to Ron at Clocks Off Racing in Racine, WI: (877)247-7223. He is a dealer for Neal Chance converters and he can help you select the right one for your needs/vehicle weight/HP etc. Tell him J (aka Yellow Wagon) sent ya. Great guy!
WarBeast17
Active Member
I probably should've specified M22 Wide Ratio, 2.56 1st gear to wind up in low. There's even an M22Z 5speeds sells with a 2.99 1st. I have a close ratio M21 now, I was originally going to wait and see what they planned to do about the Syracuse 5 speed they were talking about sometime back. If memory serves it was a essentially like strapping an OD on a Rockcrusher. The wide ratio was to have a 2.56 1st gear with .73 OD and the Close ratio had a 2.20 1st with .63 OD. I don't know what's going on with this project anymore, last thing I heard on it was in 2009
CDNpontiac409guy
Banned
thanks Don... though it's nothing new. Had it for 26 years now
That's better, War
That's better, War
CDNpontiac409guy
Banned
maybe that WAS a little short
"WarBeast17"
I just got impatient with my painfully slow typing
"WarBeast17"
I just got impatient with my painfully slow typing
It sometimes takes a while.
WarBeast17
Active Member
You can call me Travis, and I think i've decided i'm gonna settle on a set of Edelbrock heads. From what i've heard you can't go wrong with them, plenty of bang for your buck. Lamar sells a single piece 690 intake that has a similar style to the 2-piece intake. As far as cams go I'll probably look into the ones recommended here, the 242/246 sounds pretty good for a 11:1 compression car.
WarBeast17
Active Member
Ah right he offers aluminum 690's doesn't he? Good point, ill check into that.
HRC
Member
Hi, I've been off teh board for many years and about to start a new 409 project. I figured I would post on this thread with all the good cam info instead of starting another one.....I have a new Erson solid flat tappet that was custom ground some years back. It might be a bit hairy for what I'm building(a light '30 Model A with 409/4spd, 3.50 gear with tall 7.50x16 tires)...the cam says:
F286-340(which is 250deg @ 050)
F294-340( 258deg @ 050)
110 +4 LC
11.00 (not sure what this is?)
ANybody have some experience with such a cam or any advice? I honestly was planning on running a hyd. cam in this car , but have this one in the box. It might be better to pass this one on to a more serious motor and get a bit less cam....ideas? I plan to run stock stroke/bore, 10.5 or so CR. I have an old 409 Ronco magneto I am hoping to run as well.
Anybody know what the current status is with Bob Walla's heads? I sent him an email a week or so ago and haven't heard anything.
Thanks, Hans
F286-340(which is 250deg @ 050)
F294-340( 258deg @ 050)
110 +4 LC
11.00 (not sure what this is?)
ANybody have some experience with such a cam or any advice? I honestly was planning on running a hyd. cam in this car , but have this one in the box. It might be better to pass this one on to a more serious motor and get a bit less cam....ideas? I plan to run stock stroke/bore, 10.5 or so CR. I have an old 409 Ronco magneto I am hoping to run as well.
Anybody know what the current status is with Bob Walla's heads? I sent him an email a week or so ago and haven't heard anything.
Thanks, Hans
The 11.00 probably referrers to the comp ratio that they would prefer that you run with this cam. That cam is a little on the wild side for 3:50 gears and 16" tires. I guess it depends on your plans for the car? It sounds like you are building a cruiser? In this case I would be looking for a different cam profile. It is worth your money to buy a complete roller valve train. If it is a cruiser a hydraulic roller cam and rockers is the way to go. Cam profile is picked to match comp ratio and final gear ratio. When you have that figured out there are a number of cam gurus on site that can send you in the correct direction.
Yeah, that cam is a little on the big side. Of course it would make a ton of power but it is fairly large for a car you'll mainly want to cruise with.
It does sound like a pretty nice cam though, great for a stroker or for someone that mainly wanted power and didn't mind a rough idle. By the way, it would have .595 gross lift.
It's not crazy big, after all it's only a total of 8 degrees more than the 425hp and Z-11 cams, but it does have more lift and the tighter 110 deg. lobe centers would give it a rougher idle.
I think Bob Walla has a couple of different e-mail addresses.
Here's a link to his site. You might try the e-mail link on there.
http://www.409raceparts.com/
It does sound like a pretty nice cam though, great for a stroker or for someone that mainly wanted power and didn't mind a rough idle. By the way, it would have .595 gross lift.
It's not crazy big, after all it's only a total of 8 degrees more than the 425hp and Z-11 cams, but it does have more lift and the tighter 110 deg. lobe centers would give it a rougher idle.
I think Bob Walla has a couple of different e-mail addresses.
Here's a link to his site. You might try the e-mail link on there.http://www.409raceparts.com/
HRC
Member
Yeah, it is a cruiser, but I want it to scoot as well. I realize 3.50 gears and a 31inch tall tire is very conservative, but as well the 4spd is a wide ratio and the car only weighs 2500lbs or so . With this setup cruising at 55mph will give a bit over 2000rpm-. I do want a nice nasty idle so would prefer a tighter lsa and as well I dont need high rpm power
CDNpontiac409guy
Banned
Great cam... but you'll need the engine to see an absolute MINIMUM of 2700-3000 RPM at highway cruise speed ( 60-70 MPH ). I don't think those old "salt lake" tires will get you there with a 3.50 gear
Just checked.... looks like dropping it back to a 28"-29" tire would do it... or up to around a 3.90 gear ratio.
Be a wild package though, with a set of Bob's heads, and nice 1 7/8" - 2" tube headers
why be a street rodder, when you can be a HOT rodder !
Just checked.... looks like dropping it back to a 28"-29" tire would do it... or up to around a 3.90 gear ratio.Be a wild package though, with a set of Bob's heads, and nice 1 7/8" - 2" tube headers
why be a street rodder, when you can be a HOT rodder !
I would be a little concerned about the cam being ground some years back. Modern profiles can be beneficial compared to older profiles. Maybe a phone call to Erson to get some input? I'm for saving every cent possible but I believe a Comp Cam Thumper stick with mild duration would be just the ticket for your application. You can check their website for the specs they offer. If you decide to go flat tappet, please invest in EDM lifters and of course take all the precautions for break-in.