Need Help

[409fanatic]

Hi, my name is Butch and our car is the one that is in Super Chevy of this Nov's issue, page 24, 25 and 26 written by Doug Marion. Beings it is a Biscayne Fleetmaster I am really running into a wall trying to get a few parts that seem really hard to get so thought I would get this out to all you experts and see what you know about them or where to find them. One part is the rear window rubber seal. It is different from the other Biscayne 2 door sedans for there is no chrome strip between the window and the trunk, it is just a wider rubber seal. Not sure on the front window but I fear that I might run into the same problem. Like to install a better front window in it also so looking for that. Sure appreciate any help. Steel Rubber is looking into it but no go at this time. Thank you Butch

 

[rstreet]

Butch Nice article on an interesting car. I'm sure someone will come up with an idea. From my avatar I don't have that broblem but have some others
robert

 

[Tom Kochtanek]

1961?

Butch:

Is your car a 1961 Biscayne? I haven't seen the article as yet, s I wasn't sure. I think one of our other members ran into this same problem with rubber for a 4 door sedan from 1961, a Biscayne.

Not sure I have a solution other than putting her back with the trim pieces from another vehicle. Good luck!

TomK

 

[409fanatic]

Thanks guys. Seems like a fairly limed few of these old rascals so like to put it back the way it was. if I can. Stupid of me to take the windows out but never crossed my mind.

 

[real61ss]

Great car!!!! Do you have any original photos of the car that show the motor? particularly the intake manifold, just curious, this being an original '61 409 car it could answer lots of questions. Will the car be restored with a '61 409 motor? Do you have any of the original motor componants. Do you have the original transmission? If so, is it an aluminum case T-10?
Also, would you share the build date of this car?

 

[yellow wagon]

yea....tip of the day. Be VERY careful with the parts on these old Biscaynes/Fleetmasters. Parts are very hard to come by

 

[Dick MacKenzie]

Love that car Butch! Great article also! I've been looking for just that body style for a couple years now. They are either too far gone or too nice to use for a race car.

 

[409fanatic]

I have pictures of the car back in the 60's even one in the Aug 11th 1961 issue of National Dragster but I do not have pictures of the motor back then. The national dragster article talks about it being a 409 beating such favorites as the Popes factory 401 Ford. The picture of it in National dragster is the one you can see in the Super Chevy magazine. Also the January 09 issue of Hot Rod magazine there is an article about the Lost Speed Shop. The owner of that shop Glen Volz is the one that signed a document for Allen to puchase the car for Gm would not relaease a car till they had a statement stating it was for racing purposes only. No it will not be restored with the 61 motor unless I win the lottery. About $30,000 for one if you can find one although there are a couple of them out and about. No I do not have any origial motor parts but as far as the car it is pretty much the way it came, I mean not cut up or anything like that but would like to get seats, and rims for the car and the rubbers for the windows. The motor is ready to go . It is a 63 Cross ram 409. A picture of it is in the SC magazine. That is the one I always ran in it and ready to go again. Did not know what I was buying 30 years ago, just wanted something to race and not till a 3 or so years did I find the original owners and recieved its history like winning the Winters in 62 but with a tri power 348 in E stock. I was class champion in 82 at the AHRA World fianls with a 409. Transmission. Yes. I do have one to match the cars date. The build date of the car is first week of May and the transmission in March of 61. It is an aluminum case trans. One more interseting thing if some one wanted to figure it out the body number is 41. Not 0000041, just 41 .. Good luck with your project. Hope I did not bore you but I like the 9 irons.. If interseted the body style is 61-1411

 

[Tom Kochtanek]

I'm confused...

Sorry I don't get Super Chevy, so I haven't seen the story or the pictures. So this is a 1961 Biscayne two door sedan that was originally a 409 car, or was it a 348 tripower, or what? As a race car, I suspect it probably had several engines over the years, but what did she come with from the factory?

Also, what is a "Fleetmaster"? I recognize that term from Chevy in the 40s and 60s, but never heard it in reference to a '61.

Thanks in advance!

TomK

 

[64ss409]

Also, what is a "Fleetmaster"?
TomK

I did not know either. Here is a link.
http://listing-index.ebay.com/cars/Chevrolet_Biscayne.html

 

[409fanatic]

It was ordered from the factory as a 1961 Chevrolet Biscayne Fleetmaster with a 409 engine and a 4 speed. It was driven about 100 miles from the dealer and the engine was taken out and taken to the Salem Speed shop and the engine was bored .060 over and a couple other things to get some more horse power. There were no pistons available for it so they had some sandcast pistions made which after a fashion failed and hurt the motor although it had won a few races before that happened. It was still a 409 when the picture of it came out in the National dragster in Aug 11 of 61. But when the engine failed the speed shop made good with the owner and he built a 348 motor for Allan the first owner and Allan went on down to the Winters in 1962 and won E stock. Since then yes there were other combos in the car but when I bought it in 1976 it had a 63 409. I have had the car for 33 years. I now know the original owner and all the previous owners. Plus I have talked with Glen Volz of the Salem Speed shop about it's history also. I could go on and on about it's history for there is a lot of stories and alot of races won with it. Also if you could look in SC you can see where it was a record holder at the Madras drag strip. I have a lot of old pictures and time slips along with hand wriitten docs. On July 4th this year the third owner organized a reunion with the car and all the people that had something to do with it in the 60's. Some of them had not seen the car for over 40 years including the first owners girl friend that raced it and won with it also. I have alot of great pictures of that reunion. Now on the net you can find where they made the Fleetmaster I believe in 1936 to 1938 and never agian till 1961. I have seen what you have posted to where it says 1960 but do not understand that because mine is a 1961 and there is a sight saying 1961 they made 3,000 Fleetmaster out of the 201,000 Biscaynes. Go yahoo or google search and put in production numbers for the 61 Biscayne and I think you will see it. Car has 22,000 miles on the od and some were on the street but some towing also. Thanks for the interest. Hope to find the rear rubbers for the back window. Hope this clears some of this up. Not very good at explaining some times. Appreciate all of you, like me that always had some kid of click for the W motors... Butch

 

[Tom Kochtanek]

Aha!

Butch (and others!) thanks for clearing that up .

So the Fleetmaster was a subset of the Biscayne model, now I get it! Did not know there was such an animal.

I wonder what ever happened to that original 1961 409 engine, that would be something if it resurfaced and you put them back together . That vehicle has quite a heritage, and we are all glad that you own it and recognize that. Keep those papers, slips, records, pics and everything together, they tell quite a story!

Now I understand why you want to locate the original replacement rubber. We hope that finds it's way to you. Good luck in keeping and maintaining the vehicle, pass it on to the kids if you can. Although they are not nearly as rare, that's what I plan to do with my collection .

Cheers!
TomK

 

[oldskydog]

A few years ago, there was a guy in Washington trying to sell a beat up old 623 block on ebay. It was dated April 61, and need a lot of work. I wonder if that might have been your original block.
As I recall, he listed it several times and never sold it.

 

[tripower]

A few years ago, there was a guy in Washington trying to sell a beat up old 623 block on ebay. It was dated April 61, and need a lot of work. I wonder if that might have been your original block.
As I recall, he listed it several times and never sold it.

Cecil, I remember that. I can't remember where he was though.

Butch, Did the Fleetmaster come without a backseat?

 

[Jim409_Pontiac]

Wow! This is a great story.bang

I had missed one of your earlier posts in the "Fastest car I ever drove" thread. I hope you don't mind that I copied and pasted it here...



Yes I can and thank you for having a site like this for all of the W lovers.. There are a couple of that I have talked to like Phil and Lamar about the car but it is one of the original 409's but in a Biscayne but not just the Biscayne but it is in the Fleetmaster to where there were only 3000 of made.. The trim tag says VN 41.. A fellow named Allen May was the first to buy it at Capitol Chevrolet in Salem Ore.. In fact if you get the Jan 2009 HotRod mag you will see an article on a lost hotrod shop.. Well that is owned by Glen Volz and I had the pleasure of meeting him a couple months ago and he wrote a letter to help document the car as a 409 race car and how Allen bought it, drove it home 100 miles and took the engine out to give it to him to blue print,balance and bore.. Before Allen could buy the car he had to have a sign doc stating it was for racing purposes only which Glen had wrote and signed for Allen.. Allen blew that engine up not too long afterwards for at that time the only thing they could get for it was sandcast pistons which did not last long.. Well Allen put a 348 in it for the 1962 Winternationals which he won in E stock... He also raced it at the Winters in 64 but never trophied although he was a terror up here in the NW winning many races.. Some kidded around that his phone calls to Grumpy Jenkins was more than his racing bill but as I understand it Allen was very paticular and knew what he was doing also...Well I bought this car 32 years ago not knowing what I was buying. I just bought a 61 chev with a 409 in it and not till recently did I find or should I say they found me to tell me the story on this car.. I am almost 60 now but I would be hard pressed to say that I have met nicer people in my 60 years...There were about 4 owners of the car and all knew each other and I tell you there is quite a story on this car with group of fabulaous guys and gals. It seems each of them have a personal love for this car and we are all thrilled of finding one another. They have given us bunches of pictures of the car even at the Winters and also an Aug 11th addition of the National Dragster with Allen in there beating the then hard to beat and crowds favorite the Popes Ford. After 32 years of having the car I have only met these guys and found the story on this car in the last couple years.. Gen Volz of the Salem Speed shop even gave us a copy of one of his 1962 ads for his shop stating Allen May as winner of the 62 Winternationals... I won in 1982 class champion at the AHRA World Finals in Spokane Wa... It does not have the original 9 iron in it but I have always had a 63 409 in it, dual 4's sitting on top of a Mickey Thompson cross ram... Been sitting for the last 20 years but just recently I been geting back into it.. The motor is now all redone and now the car has just left for a paint shop 2 days ago... Always looked good for I always took care of it, always garage and even though not using it always was washed.. Bunches to this story for each of the owners, Allen May, Glen Larsen, and Jim and Buck Burton all have stories on the car. Each of them has made their mark on the drag strip with this car.. Do not know how to send pictures but will try but for right now I have been getting everones pictures together for there is a magazine that is thinking of doing an article on it but not confirmed as of yet.... So turkey day today.. Probably bored you with such a long post.. Did not think it would be this long but thanks for asking.. Although probably impossible my wife and I would like to meet each and everyone of you W fans, but one thing we can do is wish you a great Thanks Giving and wish this posts finds all of you well... Butch and Debbie Schultz

 

[chevymusclecars]

The Old Car Manual Project has the 61 brochure which talks a little about the Fleetmaster.

http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/main.php?g2_itemId=23206

Here is a company that may be able to help you with the weatherstrip material.

http://restorationspecialties.com/

Bill

 

[chevymusclecars]

Jim409_Pontiac

We don't see many post from you but I wondered how the Pontiac is progressing? I don't think I have ever seen a progress report or pictures?

Bill

 

[jim_ss409]

Jim409_Pontiac

We don't see many post from you but I wondered how the Pontiac is progressing? I don't think I have ever seen a progress report or pictures?

Bill

Bill, That was me who posted that. I didn't notice that the computer out at the shop was logged in under the other Jim's name.

We haven't started on the Pontiac yet but should get on it sometime this winter after we finish the Mack truck we're working on. We'll be sure to post pictures.

 

[409fanatic]

Yeah I remember writing that. Super fine and dandy. As far as the 623 block on ebay it is the original motor that came out of the car, or I am about 99% sure any way. I called the guy. He wanted $10,000 for the block. First of all there were only 142 of them made, and this egine was found out by a barn in the weeds about 100 miles from where Allen lived, it was bored out .060 just as Allen had it done when he had 100 miles on it and also Allen said it blew out the left side and that is where this one was damaged at also. I asked what his bottom dollar was and it was $7,000. Took a month to get the pistons out and the bolts were broken off in the block where the heads bolt to. So I passed. Love to have it but not at that price. Anyway appreciate all of you guys and gals and if any of you can lead me to some info on the window seals, 14X6 rims and some bench seats and like to put another windshield in it. Other than that it would pretty much compelte the car fairly close to the way it was minus the 623 motor. Car has alway been under roof so pretty great shape....

 

[boxerdog]

That is indeed a great story. I know I learned quite a bit!

I found a rubber window seal for my '61 Belair sedan which worked and sealed, but was somewhat different from the original. I can appreciate that you prefer am OEM, but I can try to look up where I sourced the repro if it might help. I'm sure Phil has that covered as well. The clips are another story as well. Fortunately I know one of the few glass guys around here who knows how to do that old stuff, and we were able to R&R that rear glass.

Good luck,

Dave