'63 Z-11 cars I knew of

[heckinohio]

For what this is worth.........

I bought a 20mm Finnish cannon from a guy in Cleveland area, Neal Smith, several years ago. He had a picture of Eddie Shartmans Z-11 car on the wall in his office. He apparently owned it after Shartman......was that Jackshaw Chevy dealer???

I raced against a red one several times about 8-10 years ago. His Chevy pal is Ronnie Evans from NJ?? Evans had a '62, we chased around together in a now defunct nostalgia match race circuit. Z-11 owner name may have been Bill Burge??

In the '70s, Ralph ??? from Pomeroy, Ohio, had an original car that may have belonged to Malcolm Durham??? It was missing one cylinder head. He offered to sell it to Tim Bailey just up the road for $3500. Bailey turned it down on the strength of the fact that he was aftraid he wouldnt be able to find a head!!!!

J C Moore of Kansas City had an original car. I used to know who the original owner was but can no longer remember. Moore is dead, motorcycle got him. I have pictures of the car and engine stuff he once sent me. His wife no longer remembers what happened to the car after his death.


In 1976, I bought the Royal Pontiac '63 Swiss cheese frame Catalina, one of 14, a lower production number than even the '63 Chev Z-11. 13 are known. Later I got Mickey Thompsons '63 car. I had two at one time, first and second ones mfgrd. Too stupid to keep them, I built a new house in the '80s and sold the cars, paid for the house which is now worth about 1/4 what either of those cars is. I also bought one of the few aluminum front end non Swiss Cheese frame '63 Pontiacs from a junk yard for $300. Several of these were used for Pikes Peak racing. Hows that for a bargain???............once again stupidity reared its ugly head; it had no title so I got rid of it asap. Some years ago I sold most of a '63 Pontiac aluminum front end for $30,000. The guy had a legitimate car but the aluminum was gone. Now he has a $400,000. car.

Only thing I have left is two of the aluminum front end '62 Pontiac factory drag race cars, there were 180 mfgd. Kind of 'old hat'......Everybody has one of them, nothing special!!!!!!

Picture take in late 2002..........I think!!!

 

[Tom Kochtanek]

Great stories!

Hey thanks for the stories, we love 'em!

I grew up in the Cleveland area in the 60s, we used to go to Thompson Drag Raceway. You knew more of the cool cars than I ever remember!

Some of us have met Bill Burge, he wrote a short book on some of his exploits back in the day. I recall he had a new 1963 409-425, but don't remember a Z-11 car. Maybe others do. Think he went to a 1967 Corvette after that one.

Nice pics of the '62 Ponchos. Not at all common, but then you know that . Never seen one up close. Just in magazines. That's a rather interesting dual quad intake...

I'm in the process of building a sort of "tribute car" to that era out of a 1961 Bonneville Sport Coupe (I know, I know, it's a long chassis!). Arnie told me he used to race one along with his many other 61s that he kept in various parts of the midwest and southeast. Engine is more tame based on a 428 block stroked with a 455 crank, rod, pistons. Aluminum dual quads on an aftermarket intake. Not the same as those original racers, more of a "budget build" on a "big body".

Thanks for sharing the stories, wish I was there .

Cheers!
TomK
Columbia, MO

 

[skipxt4]

Gee. I wish I had a couple of "old hat's " like them.

 

[Mike Pado]

Z-11

Has far as I know Eddy's car wasa converted 6 cyl. my brother and I ran a car for Ed Stinn Chevrolet it was a Cordova brown Biscayne and it was also a converted car we started with a 409-425 and went with all the Alum parts and the Z-11 engine I still talk with Eddy and Eddy Anderson who was the parts manager for Jackshaw Chevy. Through them I met Don who was just a great guy . Our home track was Thompson but we ran where ever we could back then you could run 3 - 4 times a week at the surrounding tracks.

 

[Z-11Guy]

Do you ever recall seeing an aqua '63 Z-11 raced by a guy named Van Snyder? The car came through Dutch Folk Chevrolet out of Akron OH and was frequently a dragway 42 in west salem OH. The Dependables '63 Dodge out of Wes Koogle Dodge always used to see the rear end of Schartman's Z-11 often lol!

 

[wburge409@gmail.com]

Ahhh, the red car! Guess that would be me. Yep, I'm almost 70 but remember racing Vance Heck and his brother with their lightweight Pontiacs. Fun times for sure. Wonder were my old warrior is today? Wild Bill

 

[quik9r]

The 400 trans brake tranny and 12 bolt four link are in Ontario Canada, in a 62 bubble top. The 63 car itself was restored and sold at Barrett Jackson many years ago. Met with you at Thompson Ohio.

Kevin Quik9r

 

[heckinohio]

Bill Burge.........old man Heck here. I will be 76 in Jan. The slippery slope of 70 to 75 is really treacherous..........and a much steeper decline than the previous ones. Donna got under a big farm tractor in Oct. of '011. Lost her lower left leg & right one was crushed to above the knee........ Really pulled the rug out from everything I was doing or wanted to do w/car stuff. Thats all over now....... She can still shoot so we do that almost exclusive to anything else. We have vintage machine guns & participate in organized shooting events for this type military stuff. Most of the targets are explosive laden furrin' cars!!!!!

Here is a link to general coverage of our Oct. 26 outing.....Unfortunately, a small bull had crushed my hand & I couldnt participate. I am in two really short films, back to the camera, holding up a belt for a guy shooting one of my guns on a stand up tripod mounting.

http://1919a4.com/showthread.php?50920-Marrietta-MachineGun-shoot-at-Ft-Harmar

PJH

sadly retired from drag racing (53yrs)

 

[heckinohio]

Bill Burge.........old man Heck here. I will be 76 in Jan. The slippery slope of 70 to 75 is really treacherous..........and a much steeper decline than the previous ones. Donna got under a big farm tractor in Oct. of '011. Lost her lower left leg & right one was crushed to above the knee........ Really pulled the rug out from everything I was doing or wanted to do w/car stuff. Thats all over now....... She can still shoot so we do that almost exclusive to anything else. We have vintage machine guns & participate in organized shooting events for this type military stuff. Most of the targets are explosive laden furrin' cars!!!!!

Here is a link to some particiants comments & films from our Oct. '014 outing. Had a little bull crush my right hand so we didnt participate, I did loan an MG 42, thats me holding the belts up in 2 short videos linked into one of the commentaries.

PJH

 

[Tom Kochtanek]

PJ: Several years ago I stopped by and met Vance Heck and toured his collection of cars and parts. I recall he had quite a well organized collection down the basement as well .

I drove over there in my 1962 Impala 409 four speed car, Vance really liked that one!

Here is a shot of me with Vance in one of those fine '62 lightweights



Cheers!
TomK

 

[wburge409@gmail.com]

To Heckinohio from Wild Bill in Florida...Thanks for checking in. I haven't been on this site in many years but have enjoyed catching up with all the 409 guys activities. Still have my original '67 Corvette I bought new at age 22 and drive it almost everyday. Only Z-11 stuff I have left is a camshaft and Mr. Gasket intake manifold gaskets.

Wild Bill

 

[Ronnie Russell]

Bill, your input on a lot of subjects discussed here would be priceless. Hope you will check in more often. I've always wanted to hear you talk some about the 500" 409-z11 you match raced back in the day. At least, that's what I remember reading in a magazine article.

 

[wrench]

Nice to see back online here Bill!

Tom Collins

 

[1961BelAir427]

Welcome to Mr. Heck and Welcome Back to Mr. Burge!!!!

Bill, your input on a lot of subjects discussed here would be priceless. Hope you will check in more often. I've always wanted to hear you talk some about the 500" 409-z11 you match raced back in the day. At least, that's what I remember reading in a magazine article.

 

[Z-11Guy]

Bob Delia, out of Chicago in his Palomar red '63 Z-11 he bought and raced new from Nelson Chev out of Libertyville Illinois. Bures Hall was the only other Z-11 Chevy out of Illinois from Mancuso Chevrolet Skokie Illinois , black Impala with red interior, was traded it at Nickey Chevrolet by the second owner (I believe Paul Esterly) for a new Z/28 Camaro.

 

[models916]

Did you know Paul Esterly? I was pretty good friends with him untill 5-6 years ago. Has had health problem and kind of disappeared. His son Jeff did all the machine work on my W. They knew a lot about W engines and mentioned the Z11 now an then. Jeff still run E&R racing engines west of Chicago.

 

[heckinohio]

I found a picture of the '63 Z-11 I mentioned in my first post. It was owned by J. C. Moore of Kansas City........not sure which state. I am reasonably sure this is the ex-Ed Shartman. As mentioned in that post, Moore was run over & killed on a motorcycle trip about 1990. There is an intake, carbs & tappet cover pan in the background........other picture I have is close up of that. Will post when I find it........right now, I cant find two pairs of small red handles pliers I use to adjust machine gun belts. Had them in Jan.........Here is me w/alum front end '62 Pont against Dan Gouveia, SC., at Farmington. NC.. I ran against Floyd Garrets alum '62 at this same track with the blue '62 Pontiac but not finding pictures. Blue Pont in the referenced first post here. He & I ran almost identical 6.50s. Dan & I ran 7.0s......

PJH

 

[Z-11Guy]

That black Z-11 o J.C Moore has been the unknown Z-11 Chevy that has bugged me for years. Definitely not Schartman's dealer assembled Z-11 car, that always remained in Ohio to this day. I always felt it was Mike Lenke's Z-11 Chevy driven by Earl Wade from Los Angeles (Ed Priester Chevrolet Oceanside CA).
The factory tuxedo black '63 Z-11 Impala's I know of (correct me if I'm mistaken):

Mike Lenke (Earl Wade tuned)- Ed Priester Chev Oceanside CA
Bures Hall - Mancuso Chev Skokie IL.
VP Hartgrove - Stokes Chev King NC
Jack Cooley - Oliver Chev Morgan Town LA

Supposedly Ford purchased a black Z-11 car for testing at Dearborn proving grounds in Michigan. There was a write up by a car tester and magazine editor for the life of me I can't remember his name. Anyhow, he was given a 1963 427 Ford Galaxie to ring out and test at the proving ground. He was already to give the 427 fastback Ford a "lively' review though decided to take for another round around the track for kicks. Half way through the track on the high banks, he mentioned he sees the front end of a black '63 Chevy coming up on him like gangbusters. The Chevy is a base Impala coupe with small wheel covers in tuxedo black and red interior. When the Impala pulled fender to fender with the Ford they both nailed it. In the editors exact words: "That black cheapy Chevy coupe dusted me so bad it felt I went in reverse". The editor later wrote he went to the test bay where the '63 Impala rested and quickly found it had an aluminum front end and the Z-11 427 service package. Later on I ran into a shop instructor at our local tech college who was a student at Ford's engineering center near the river rouge plant when I was road racing my '66 Corsa. I didn't even mention a hint of 409 or Z-11's to him and didn't think he was into that stuff since he raced Datsun 240z's and 510's road racing. Out of the blue he mentioned him and some students with the instructor rode in a black aluminum paneled 1963 Impala coupe owned by Ford's R&D division to a place called Ted's drive in around 1966. I was shocked to say the least, remember , I gave him no indication I was into Z-11's or 409's at the time, he just came out and mentioned it. Felt like I was hit by a mack.

 

[Phil Reed]

Raj....I have a picture somewhere of a black Z-11 setting in a driveway. Linda Jacobson gave me a copy. I'll check next week and see if I can find it and post a picture. It had a name on the roof above the driver's door but can't make out the writing. But it did have MR 427 painted on the door. Thought it might be the Dick Harrell car but Linda didn't think so.

 

[Z-11Guy]

Thanks Phil, I'm pretty sure Dick Harrell's Z-11 never made it black. After Harrell sold it to Therwanger it was later painted red, then the owner after that painted it some aqua green color and died in that color. Gene Brown of Houston ended up with that car along with Buddy Taylor's and ran them both to the ground and junked them. He was mighty happy about that he said. He Sadly may of had Hayden's Z-11 after Clyde McKnight was done with it. The Shahan Z-11 went to somebody in Dickinson Texas in 1964 with a smaller motor. HL told me they put the QM 427 in his jet ski boat.