Small block vs. 409, clutch Z bar.

62BillT

Well Known Member
I had always thought the same thing and also had a hard time understanding why, although I learned early on that the 409 one was different.

But that said, when I dropped a 396 in my '62, all the 283 stuff worked perfectly.
 

pvs409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 11
The Z bars with the 135 degree arms are for 1958 to 1961 chevy's that have way different linkage to use with the Z bars than 62 to 64 linkage.
The 62 to 64 Z bars with 150 degree arms are used for 409 and small block Z bars -these years have similar linkage arms.
Paul
 

Jason Perry

Member
So I've done some reading and googleing, and now I'm confused. I am looking for a Z bar for my 62 bel air. And there is a difference between a small block and 409 Z bar. Just can't figure out what or WHY? My thinking is, the tranny and bell housing are bolted in the same spot, that puts the engine in the same place. So Why is the Z bar any different? From what I gather, the small bracket on the frame is welded in the same place, weather it's a 6 cyl or a 409, so that's the same. So what gives?


I went through this a year ago...You can find my sob story somewhere here on the forum.
My car was a 327 auto converted to 4 speed/409 - when I bought it, it was very hard to shift I was convinced it was just all new and was breaking in....WRONG!!! You will have the wrong linkage geometry and blow your transmission just as I did!

The Z bar for a 409 is just a tad bit shorter and the angles are slightly different. Also, you will need the correct clutch fork. The fork is bent just slightly for a little more throw. To make things even more fun - they are year specific. My 409 is a 65 car engine and needed clutch fork and Z bar from a 62.

I found this place and was able to buy their last complete set - www.4speedconversions.com. He actually sent me both different Z bars and Clutch forks to see which would work - SBC and 409.

PVS409 and some of the other guys were awesome explaining and helping me understand.

I say if you are doing a swap - find the correct 409 parts and save you the headaches that I had!!
 

Impalaguru

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 1
Been there, too. I put a 409 in place of a 327 in a 63 with a 4 speed. I hit all the road blocks.
You need a 168-tooth flywheel for an EXTERNALLY balanced engine
A bellhousing for a 168-tooth flywheel
A BBC (396, 427, 454) block mounted starter or a 409, bellhousing-mounted starter. Depends on your bellhousing.
Do as Phil says and buy ALL the 409-specific clutch linkage.
That's just to be able to shift gears. If you don't have a 3/8 fuel line you can vapor lock (it runs under the RH upper A-arm and away from the exhaust) 5/16 line runs on top of the rail and soaks up a lot of heat from a 409. Get a bigger radiator. Find a 409 shroud or cut a small block shroud. Change the front springs because the front will be lowering no time.

Ross
 

Don Jacks

Well Seasoned Member
Supporting Member 3
I in no way mean to argue with you Ross,but the only way that you'd want an externally balanced flywheel on these engines is if were built using a cut down 454 crank in these engines.All 283's,327'sand 409's were internally balanced.An external balanced flywheel on one of these engines would shake terribly.
 

Impalaguru

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 1
I in no way mean to argue with you Ross,but the only way that you'd want an externally balanced flywheel on these engines is if were built using a cut down 454 crank in these engines.All 283's,327'sand 409's were internally balanced.An external balanced flywheel on one of these engines would shake terribly.

Don - you're right!!! My brain failed me there :) Definitely needs a flywheel for an INTERNALLY balanced engine.
Thanks
Ross
 

Impalaguru

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 1
I definitely have a lot going on, that's for sure! I like the idea of going to the races. I'll have to see if I can make that work. The little guy definitely like the cars! Here he is sitting in the convertible. It's a 340hp, 4 speed, posi! We will need some pedal extensions!!

Ross
 

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Phil Reed

Well Seasoned Member
Supporting Member 10
Oh....he's old enough!!!!!!
Drop him off at the race track.....Candy and I baby sit for free!!!!!!!!!
 

Iowa 409 Guy

Well Seasoned Member
Supporting Member 15
I definitely have a lot going on, that's for sure! I like the idea of going to the races. I'll have to see if I can make that work. The little guy definitely like the cars! Here he is sitting in the convertible. It's a 340hp, 4 speed, posi! We will need some pedal extensions!!

Ross

It would be great if you could come. Let me know.

Dave
 
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