Value of a complete 409 engine
- Thread starter 409Steve
- Start date
I think what Mike is saying is, we artificially inflate the prices of some things when they need not be. And more importantly, we do it to ourselves. It is not restricted to 348/409 stuff either. We do it with all kinds of products. The price is what someone is willing to pay. I personally have more in my engine than needed, especially based on how it runs. However the engine could still be a low buck 340 with cast heads etc. and would get me down the road, and did so fine even with .125 runout on my crank. So I guess I bought into the overpriced things myself.
The engine has always been orange. I understand it to be a truck engine because of the Cly Head Casting#s.
Head# 3819333
Year used: 1962-1965
Model: Truck
Engine: 409
Horsepower: 252
Intake Valve Size: 1.94
Exhaust Valve Size: 1.66
Notes: Also used on the 348 truck engines.
Just out of curiosity, I am still interested in the value of a 409 out of a car.
Head# 3819333
Year used: 1962-1965
Model: Truck
Engine: 409
Horsepower: 252
Intake Valve Size: 1.94
Exhaust Valve Size: 1.66
Notes: Also used on the 348 truck engines.
Just out of curiosity, I am still interested in the value of a 409 out of a car.
I would think that a car block with the correct heads[690's in your case]and the right intake and exhaust manifolds for the hp claimed would be in the 4-5 thousand range for a complete core engine.Yes I'm aware of what some of these are being priced by the greedy s.o.b.'s on craigslist and ebay ,but very few if any of them ever get near that much for them,
Pay attention, I threw 333's away. Did throw a 348 block away though. Although a stroked 348 is a viable option
On a serious note, what's for sale is worth about $1200-$1500, block, crank and tin. Heads if you want to repair them for more then they're worth go for it.
I would agree with Mike's assessment of $1200 to $1500.
Last 409 I ripped from a C60 4-5 years ago had 21,000 miles on the odometer and I gave $1200 for it.
Block was pristine enough that James fitted her up with a stock crank and rods, some used GM pistons at standard bore, and we took her to Great Bend KS
.
Around that same time I picked up a 1963 passenger block (QA stamping) for $1200 that was fitted with cast truck pistons that required drilling to remove the stuck pistons. Turned out she needed 2 new sleeves so that was a bit of a crap shoot. Guy wanted $2K for it, so I offered $900 but bumped it to $1200 just to get it out of the barn...
Best "blind deal" ever also turned out not so good. Gave $200 for a QB passenger block sitting in a garage in North KC. Sight unseen. My son picked it up and when I came by the next week I noted the "QB" stamping on the front pad and got overly excited. Then I had it cleaned and crack checked, turned out OK except that it was .100 over already... Would make a nice 8 bottle wine cabinet .
Best deal ever: Ebay purchase of a pair of 348 blocks with some spare parts for $400. Had to go to Michigan to pick them up. One block was date coded for 1961 and had the "FH" suffix, standard bore. Other block turned out to need one sleeve.
Last 409 I ripped from a C60 4-5 years ago had 21,000 miles on the odometer and I gave $1200 for it.
Block was pristine enough that James fitted her up with a stock crank and rods, some used GM pistons at standard bore, and we took her to Great Bend KS
.Around that same time I picked up a 1963 passenger block (QA stamping) for $1200 that was fitted with cast truck pistons that required drilling to remove the stuck pistons. Turned out she needed 2 new sleeves so that was a bit of a crap shoot. Guy wanted $2K for it, so I offered $900 but bumped it to $1200 just to get it out of the barn...
Best "blind deal" ever also turned out not so good. Gave $200 for a QB passenger block sitting in a garage in North KC. Sight unseen. My son picked it up and when I came by the next week I noted the "QB" stamping on the front pad and got overly excited. Then I had it cleaned and crack checked, turned out OK except that it was .100 over already... Would make a nice 8 bottle wine cabinet
.Best deal ever: Ebay purchase of a pair of 348 blocks with some spare parts for $400. Had to go to Michigan to pick them up. One block was date coded for 1961 and had the "FH" suffix, standard bore. Other block turned out to need one sleeve.
Last edited:
I'm not advocating throwing away any of this stuff. In my case I had a 348 block and a pair of 333's sitting around for 5 or so years. They were given to me for free. I was moving and was thinning down junk. The block and heads were not worth taking with me to storage just to sit for another 5-10 years. You can take these to swap meets and after a few years you'll tire of loading and unloading them for a few years. Only the high performance stuff will sell around here but very few are into W stuff.
I was paying attention,you said the 333's were already gone,you still haven't answered the question would you sell a good block for a $1000 and give a way a good crankshaft?
Sold my crank for $100 might’ve gotten away with a polish but probably would’ve had to of gone 10 under
Could’ve held out for more money knowing to 348 guys like to stroke them....... didn’t want to hang onto parts
Could’ve held out for more money knowing to 348 guys like to stroke them....... didn’t want to hang onto parts
I would sell a block for $1000 if I got it for no more then $500, could include a 409 crank at that. BUT when I find guys like you that think this stuff is gold then I would up my price to something stupid.
I don't think its gold,but I do believe that you will have to pay the going price if you want to get 1 in a timely manner,if you have time to wait for a smokin deal to come along more power to you but if you need a part to keep a project moving then that leaves you at the mercy of the market.So as far as the escalation of prices it appears the root cause is guys like yourself that by your own admission want to get a 100% markup,the end result being that the unfortunate guy that has to get the hard to find part to get his rig going again gets raped.While I try to go out and find my parts at the point of origin to avoid the extra cost of middlemen such as yourself not everybody can and depend on such sources,ideally they can find someone who doesn't try to get rich off him.
Just my personal opinion...... but I think the answer to this argument lies somewhere in the middle ......generally speaking you’re not going to get good prices on anything unless they are people that you’ve dealt with prior or a group of friends that have to happen to have the same type of parts.......And obviously when you’re dealing with parts off the beaten path...... it’s not a Mustang and it’s not a Camaro .......you’re going to pay a little bit more .........which is what you get with the 348 and 409
I have occasion to come upon owners who have old worn out parts that have not been well preserved and they see the asking prices on finished builds ($12K and up) and think they have gold. Most have no idea that once you have the basic components (block/heads/intake/exhaust etal) that the cost to actually build a "W" escalates from there . They must be thinking of the 1970s "backyard rebuild" on their SBC, hundreds of dollars versus the several thousands it takes to build a finely tuned high perf 409.
I still think the 409 crank will continue to be valued at $300 since it's such an easy upgrade to stroke a 348 by adding off the shelf pistons and rods.
Plus there's those guys like me who are OK with stock stroke 409s for their driver cars.
TomK
. They must be thinking of the 1970s "backyard rebuild" on their SBC, hundreds of dollars versus the several thousands it takes to build a finely tuned high perf 409.I still think the 409 crank will continue to be valued at $300 since it's such an easy upgrade to stroke a 348 by adding off the shelf pistons and rods.
Plus there's those guys like me who are OK with stock stroke 409s for their driver cars
.TomK
I'm probably the least experienced one here with "W" engines and assorted parts. I do know they cost alot to purchase and have rebuilt properly; especially the 409. My '61 348/434 with bunch of Edelbrock parts, special pistons, machine work, was probably close to $8,500.00 when done. And that's with a 454 crank and 396 BB rods, both the machine shop already had. My '63 409/340 was a little different. If memory serves me, I think I paid about $2500.00 for the short block and a few hundred more for 817 heads. By the time I bought additional parts and with the machine shop work, I probably have about $7500.00 in this motor. Not really sure. I do know that I care not to ever replace this motor, so I'm careful with it. From time to time, I look at complete, rebuilt 409 motors. Personally, not trying to offend anyone, I think the prices are outrageous. Some are upwards of $16,000.00. You have to be kidding me. I know they haven't made them in years and they are getting hard to find, but seriously, do they really command that kind of money? I may not look for a few months on line, but when I do, the same ones are being offered. Haven't sold yet. No surprises there. I'm always on the lookout for another 409 engine. Something fairly complete. Needing rebuild. I don't think a truck engine would bother me. It would have to be local for my viewing or buying from someone I trust alot. The price would also have to be real right. This would certainly be a want, not a need. I would put it on an engine stand in my garage and give it the attention it needs over time, Carmine.
So what pistons and rods are being used for a 348 with a 409 crank, Show Cars doesn't show a piston for this stroke.
Yes they do you just have to know what you want.Any stock stroke 348,and they list 2 cast and both the K-B AND Ross pistons for the build by using the 409 length rod and the 409 crank.If you're planning to use a cast piston the crank counterweights will need to be slightly tuned down[maybe .250] or the wrist pin area [scary] trimmed for the needed clearance .The forged pistons don't need this operation.A really good option would be the K-B piston]or Ross] made for the 4 inch stroker and the aftermarket 6.385 rod.
Or a pic of the lower front passenger side of block opposite side of power steering mounts to see if front holes are drilled and tapped for a truck mount set up if you don't want to pull heads.
Also, on car blocks, the material is there to cut the notches for exhaust valve clearance. I checked a couple of car blocks with the sonic tester, and cut notches (not as big as 409 truck blocks have) using a milling cutter on a mandrel with an adjustable stop. I used a 690 head as a jig with the mandrel fitting inside the valve guide. To me, this means that the base casting is the same, whether car or truck.