1961 409

[1958 delivery]

Nice semi project car, I think the guy is trying to say it's an original 409 409 hp 1961

http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/cto/4571085366.html

 

[61belairbubbletop]

That color kills it for me.

 

[real61ss]

Those truck valve covers kinda let me know it most likely isn't the real deal.

 

[oldskydog]

Decent old car but definitely not original engine compartment. Besides the truck valve covers Tommy already pointed out, I see truck exhaust manifolds and who knows what carbs.

 

[63impalass409]

Am I correct in thinking 61 409's never had dual carbs and I don't think the add ever said it was the original motor and if it was it would be more than 35k

 

[real61ss]

Am I correct in thinking 61 409's never had dual carbs and I don't think the add ever said it was the original motor and if it was it would be more than 35k

You are correct on all accounts although the big port heads and the 2x4 set up was available in June of 61 but I don't think there has ever been any proof that any left the factory in cars. Cecil might have something on this.

 

[Ronnie Russell]

The carbs. appear to be driver side inlets. Not sure if that would be correct for '61.

 

[real61ss]

Early 61 fuel lines entered the carb from the front, late 61 entered from the left rear like the 62s. Of course we are talking about single four barrel motors.

 

[oldskydog]

All 2x4 carbs were small throat with front fuel inlet. All single 4 barrel 409's were big throat with rear drivers side inlet.

 

[real61ss]

Cecil,
You are correct about the dual carb motors. The early 61 409's had front inlet carbs and they were small throat carbs, at some point they switched to the large throat, rear inlet carb.

 

[rstreet]

No previous mounting area for tach sender and can't see the ballast resistor. But could it be a QB?
Robert

 

[oldskydog]

Cecil,
You are correct about the dual carb motors. The early 61 409's had front inlet carbs and they were small throat carbs, at some point they switched to the large throat, rear inlet carb.

Tommy,
The only evidence of the small throat carb, probably a 3012, on the early 409 is the article in one of the magazines of the day and it's not clear that it was ever used in production. It could have been just placed on the test car to ensure a tamer running engine for the reporters test drive as suggested by the author. All documentation I've seen indicates that the big 3270 was the intended carb for the engine from day one, but it's always possible that the carb wasn't in supply yet at the beginning of production so the 3012 could have been used until the 3270 was available.
Maybe Verne has more on this.

 

[real61ss]

Tommy,
The only evidence of the small throat carb, probably a 3012, on the early 409 is the article in one of the magazines of the day and it's not clear that it was ever used in production. It could have been just placed on the test car to ensure a tamer running engine for the reporters test drive as suggested by the author. All documentation I've seen indicates that the big 3270 was the intended carb for the engine from day one, but it's always possible that the carb wasn't in supply yet at the beginning of production so the 3012 could have been used until the 3270 was available.
Maybe Verne has more on this.

I'll check with him. I based my thoughts on pictures from old magazines and Colvin lists the 3012 and the 3270 carbs. My late (May) motor had the original carb and it was a 3270

 

[oldskydog]

I believe the 3345 replaced the 3270 in late 61 about the time the 690 heads and 2x4 carbs came out. It may have been used only on the QA engine but it might have been used on the Q engine also very late.

 

[BLBATESDC]

1961 SS 409 dual quad for sale in Indiana. Maybe I am late to this game, and maybe you guys have seen this before. I know the window sticker can be faked, but it looks pretty legit in the pictures. If only I had space in my garage....

http://www.allcollectorcars.com/for-sale/1961-Chevrolet-Impala/1095711/

 

[real61ss]

Be glad you don't have any space. That is the most tricked out fake 61 Impala SS in existence today

 

[Richard Martin]

I first saw that "WZ" car about 7 years ago. At that time the car didn't have the two-tone dash and the cowl induction was very crudely made with the air duct attached to the firewall with "Home Depot" looking sheet metal screws. Over time the air cleaner assembly has changed at least 3 times. According to Chevrolet's Heritage pdf website as of Feb '61 the side insert trim of shadow gray cars was painted white.

Richard

 

[blkss64]

I love the auto trans brake pedal! $195k?

 

[Blk61409]

Tommy/Cecil in the documents I got from our Tonawanda source indicates 10-409/409 engines were built at the end of the 61 production run. While they were complete engines there is no indication they were ever shipped to a plant for vehicle installation as you indicated Tommy.
Somewhere I picked up that they were shipped to the big name racers of the day. This coincided with the info Chevrolet sent to NHRA to alert them the engines were available so they could be run. All the letters are dated, I can get if interested. Anyway, since they are basically the 62-409/409 Chevy just released them a few weeks early.
While I do not have any paper trail and I have shared this before, I think the combination of 068 block, 690 heads and pre-881 intake is very likely one of those engines. All of the casting dates are within 7 days. The intake with the pre-881 casting number has a casting date of 6-1-61.(got this from Cecil, thank you)(block from Tom K).

Anyway, the mystery continues.

 

[real61ss]

Pat,
I agree that the 2x4 409 engine was available in June of 1961. However, the car in question is NOT one of those historical vehicles. The WZ car is a poorly restored, pieced together example of somebodies attempt to deceive people.