1961 Biscayne 409 cowl tag decoding help

whistlerjohn

New Member
I have a 1961 Biscayne 2 door sedan with 14k actual miles that is an original car and is in exceptional condition. I am trying to decode the ACC line of the cowl tag. Can anyone help me with this? it is 37-B-12B. It is a Norwood car and was built with a 409 four speed. Thanks in advance for any help!
 

pvs409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 11
:yup- we need to see the cowl tag and at least the first 6 digits of the serial number and pictures of the
engine compartment and steering column ( does it have a factory sun tach and sender?)

we have members who can verify tag information and others who know know what came on early factory 409 cars
The cowl tag will not confirm a 409 car in 1961
Paul
 

Tom Kochtanek

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 12
Looks like a "QA" stamping on that "replacement" block? Can't make out the casting number (068)?

Check out the invoice listing "deluxe steering wheel" and it's from the Belair model :).

I like the Jewell Blue color, same as my first car, a 1961 Belair 4 door sedan.
 

1958 delivery

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
I have a 1961 Biscayne 2 door sedan with 14k actual miles that is an original car and is in exceptional condition. I am trying to decode the ACC line of the cowl tag. Can anyone help me with this? it is 37-B-12B. It is a Norwood car and was built with a 409 four speed. Thanks in advance for any help!



So you came on here just to try to sell your car? Why not just post a FOR SALE ad?
 

IMBVSUR?

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
Not the original engine, not original paint, not original window sticker. I am not saying it's not real as I don't know. I am curious about what the experts out there think about it. :dunno
 

oldskydog

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 10
Last week of June production so it could very well have been an 068 QA block with 690 heads if all else is true. A warranty replacement would normally be a short block only so original heads, intake/carb and all other dress items would likely have been from original engine. This block was assembled in March of 62 assuming the accuracy of being "replaced in the first year of its life", and is not likely a warranty block unless the dealer took it out of another car since it has a VIN number on it and it doesn't match the car. The heads and intake are obviously for big heads. Can't help with the ACC options, I havent seen any other Norwood tags to compare to.
 

Blk61409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 9
Not likely on the 068 block and heads. Earliest casting for the bare block 6-1-61.
Possible, but not likely to machine the block, heads, etc. same for the intake.

All that would have had to be machined, assembled in Tonawanda, NY, then the intake would have to come from Winters foundry and carbs from Carter, St Louis all shipped to NY for engine completion then shipped to California in time for the last week of June installation.

A “Moon Shot” considering the 10 speciality engines were built about the same time and had to be shipped individually to racers.

But....I never say never!!
 

oldskydog

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 10
Pat, I seem to recall an 068 block cast in late may or June and if the the engine assembly line had changed over to the new castings I don't see any issue getting the parts to Tonawanda in a few days from casting and the car was built in Norwood not California so again, tight but not impossible. Some SB Flint engines were cast and machined on the same day....not typical but possible. I agree that it's more likely that it had 623 block which would require replacing the heads and intake/carb on a replacement 068 QA.
 

DonSSDD

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
It is a nice car but only worth big money if proven real as presented. If the car was authenticated by someone like Pat or Verne Frantz, you could get to a “maybe” real, but, like a real 61 SS, only original paperwork makes it a real authenticated car.
 

rstreet

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 17
:rubOn the link provided is a 61 St Louis SS car just below the one in question. I am waiting for comments on that car as it has a couple interesting photos.
Robert
 

Barry Taylor

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
What might the document in the upper center of the trunk shot be. Maybe a copy of the original sales order. There has to be more documentation somewhere to validate this car. I also find it hard to believe Ray Skillman Co. would try to pass this car off as anything other than what it is. JMO BT
 

1958 delivery

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
What might the document in the upper center of the trunk shot be. Maybe a copy of the original sales order. There has to be more documentation somewhere to validate this car. I also find it hard to believe Ray Skillman Co. would try to pass this car off as anything other than what it is. JMO BT


Car dealer is a car dealer, why do you think he's here looking for help. he needs documentation but should have considered that before putting up the for sale sign with originality claims
 
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4onthefloor

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 1
As for that shadow grey SS listing. Im sure some of you know Ken T up in Minnesota. He had a shadow gray SS that he was going to restore in the 80’s
 

Blk61409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 9
Last week of June production so it could very well have been an 068 QA block with 690 heads if all else is true. A warranty replacement would normally be a short block only so original heads, intake/carb and all other dress items would likely have been from original engine. This block was assembled in March of 62 assuming the accuracy of being "replaced in the first year of its life", and is not likely a warranty block unless the dealer took it out of another car since it has a VIN number on it and it doesn't match the car. The heads and intake are obviously for big heads. Can't help with the ACC options, I havent seen any other Norwood tags to compare to.

Cecil, my bad on Norwood, Ohio not Calif. Thanks for catching.
 
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