1962 Bel Air Bubble Top 409 Project

CASHguzzler409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 5
Hi guys, finally finished up getting the work completed on the engine. Change fuel pumps, hoping that the 5-6 psi will help, that only took two or three tries, my hands look like they have been in a knife fight. Installed a 1" spacer for the fan blade, hoping that it might help with cooling, beings that it's now closer to the radiator. We'll see tomorrow.
If things go right, I'll start taking the dash down and install the good speedometer I have, and also fix the turn signal cancelling cam parts.
Of course I have hrs of sandblasting to do for the Gold Car, its a trade type deal he helps me with body work, I do the his small parts. :dunno2:think
:rain Starting to rain here, so its garage time, at least its not to cold yet.
 

CASHguzzler409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 5
Hi, back again, Christeen is still fighting me with the fuel pump issue. I've install two pumps, neither pump push's fuel to the bowl. I do have a question for the more advanced 409 mechanic's. On the front left side of the motor next to the fuel pump I have two (2) drilled holes. I"ve heard that one can be used to keep the pump push rod up while installing the pump?. Where these two holes drilled for Air conditioning
use?. My friend buzzsaw63goldcar, has no drilled holes in this section on his 2 motors. I did take and shorten the one that hold's up the push rod, but the back one I left longer. To Carmen, you aren't the only one that has problems with mechanics.
Also does the 409 engine take a longer push rod that a 327 pump? Going crazy here:crazy
 

W Head

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 8
Holes are there for front mounted motor mounts (some trucks had a U shaped front motor mount- think I'm correct on this) On my 409, one of the holes (top I think) goes all the way thru and can hold up the fuel pump rod with a long bolt. Also if you do not put a short bolt back in this hole it will leak oil. I have another block that the hole does not go all the way thru. Do not know why the blocks are different.

W Head

59 Impala 409-2,4s
 

CASHguzzler409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 5
Hi, Got the pump, put it in, not to much trouble, after learning how to put one in about 10 times. Tested the psi and it came up about 4 psi. The car started after some pumping, ran good, a little fast, 1300 at idle, adjusted idle screw and it came down to about 900. I had to shut it down as it was filling the garage with fumes. I will take it down off the jack stands today, and take it outdoors, run it for a while to warm it up, then take it for a drive, see if the temp is any cooler with the fan blade extension. Today is a good day.:winner
Thanks for the help and idea's along the way. cash
 

CASHguzzler409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 5
No Bitching today.....:driverFinally after much fiddling, as last and final resort had my friend Brian come over, take a look at what I had done, he spent maybe 10 minutes under car, which I had jacked up about 2', said someth hqdefault.jpg ing about the reverse gear staying in neutral gear, its done. I took the "old" Christine" out for a great drive, on the freeway, hammered a few gears, ran like a raped ape. So cool to have it back on the road and running like i knew it should.
 

CASHguzzler409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 5
Hi, Sure nice to have the 409 ready for the road any time I want to take it out. Im still going to have to fix the turn signal cancelling problem, and replace the speedometer housing in the dash, but I don't want to start that until Im sure I don't want to take it out again for a while. I've been doing a lot of sandblasting for Barry's Gold car, we trade hrs, for work on each others cars. Hope everyone has a great "rest of the year". cash. :salute
 

CASHguzzler409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 5
And a "Happy New Year" and 409 to all. I still haven't learned my lesson, I decided to take the 2x4 carbs apart, that were rebuilt by a friend, but I've always had a problem with them. The nice thing is you can go on U-Tube and watch them taking and putting them back together. But I have some questions for you if you're willing. I took some pictures to help show my problem. I have 2 "sets", of #3361 & #3804. So when taking them apart I started with just one, did that one, then did the other. Never having taking a carb apart, I should have noticed the small details. There is my question. On the Carb with Choke #3804, the back throttle Auxilary Valve and Weights are #2-250, and they are noticeably bent upwards, where as the other lay flatter to the bowl. Also, the # 800/799 on the Primary venturi clusters is also different on the two carbs.
You would think that seeing these are the same carb #'s they should have the same parts.
Any ideas, ? My car always ran rich, would not idle. Thanks for looking, cash

ps. I did notice I had put one of them in wrong, then replaced it.


100_3727.jpeg
Throttle angle is more level.. than other one. No numbers on throttle Prim Vent different #
100_3728.jpeg
Put these in wrong....
100_3729.jpeg
You can see the throttle is angled way up. 2-250- w/799/800 Prim.vent
Could this be because this is not the choke carb?

100_3731.jpg
 
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CASHguzzler409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 5
Its been quite a interesting 3 months since I last posted on the CASHguzzler409.
To make this a short story, after getting the heads worked on, the carbs worked on, and the engine back in the car, resetting the valve lash, got to be a concern. I checked with a friend, & he guided me to a hot rod machinist named Deno, only lives 4 miles from me. Great guy, he agreed to come down and set the lash for me, and get the car running good. He came on Sat. changed the 919 dist. to a pertronic
type, adj lash, got it to run. Did not like what he heard, a knock when it got warmed up. Said he wanted to come back tomorrow when the engine was cold, to hear it run and recheck lash. He found that the springs were bound, when cold he heard no knock, but then when it got warm, here comes the knock, he took his dr. ear tools and found it was a noice in the bottom end. Shut it down. :tantrum:furious
 

CASHguzzler409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 5
So after a little talk we decided to pull the engine and fix what need to be done. With Deno's help we pulled the engine, as usual it did not come out easily, but finally, it did. Next day to it to Deno's house. He didn't want me to take any thing apart on the engine, he wanted to go backwards to find the problem. And he did.
1st. The springs were wrong, and they cause coil bind
2. which caused bent push rods and bent valve's
3. Rings for Ross Pistons weren't set correct

The cam was ok, the crank needs turned again to 20....
We decided to go modern and go with Roller rocker cam, lifters, which we
bought from Jack Gibbs. The heads have been machined to accept the new rollers
so I can use my original valve covers, new 7/16 screw studs. We were lucky to catch this in time to use the Ross pistons, re-hone the cylinders. :good
 

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CASHguzzler409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 5
Update on engine rebuild, still waiting for heads to be completed, have the crank ground, all parts from Jack Gibbs are here, have had the piston rod caps machine, and balanced, carbs rebuild again, transmission completely gone through again. Hopefully another month and it will be on the road again.
I did finally give in and take the dash apart and install a good speedometer that works, it was quite a time under that dash, but I did remove the seat, which is the only way to go.I've again started on the 62SS floor pans, now that's its nice outside. I know there was a fellow on this forum that did a blog on this same procedure using a 4dr floor, I just have to find it. thats it for now, cash.

100_3783.jpg
4dr floor pan bought in California last year, or should I say Mexicali..... 100_3777.jpg
Used gauges out of SS for help on Bel Air

100_3782.jpg

100_3781.jpg
Cleaned up engine bay, ready for drop in? someday
 

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Greg Reimer

Well Known Member
Transmission Linkage pictures... please tell me if you think I have installed the rods right. I would have hated to do this job with the body on...hahaha I
thought I'd send you guys some dough nuts...... damn there good. Coffee anyone?
:lmao
Transmission Linkage pictures... please tell me if you think I have installed the rods right. I would have hated to do this job with the body on...hahaha I
thought I'd send you guys some dough nuts...... damn there good. Coffee anyone?
:lmao
Looks to me that the 1-2 rod is in upside down.The rod should go in above the reverse lever on the trans.
 

Greg Reimer

Well Known Member
Hi, back again, Christeen is still fighting me with the fuel pump issue. I've install two pumps, neither pump push's fuel to the bowl. I do have a question for the more advanced 409 mechanic's. On the front left side of the motor next to the fuel pump I have two (2) drilled holes. I"ve heard that one can be used to keep the pump push rod up while installing the pump?. Where these two holes drilled for Air conditioning
use?. My friend buzzsaw63goldcar, has no drilled holes in this section on his 2 motors. I did take and shorten the one that hold's up the push rod, but the back one I left longer. To Carmen, you aren't the only one that has problems with mechanics.
Also does the 409 engine take a longer push rod that a 327 pump? Going crazy here:crazy
Make sure if you have the block that's drilled at the front of the fuel pump mounting boss that you install bolts into BOTH holes, or you will have an oil leak that's hard to find. Use a good thread sealer, then put them in, making sure the upper one isn't bottled out against the fuel pump push rod.
 

Greg Reimer

Well Known Member
Hi. To help solve your engine problem, the #7735 camshaft had more lift than the 3830690 cam.The 3814690 cylinder head called for a cam that was right around .500" max lift. Using that cam on the 690 head worked OK. If you put a cam in with more lift, the springs would coil bind, the rocker arms could break, push rods would bend, but the cam would go flat, with the resultant cam and lifter debris going through the entire motor, scoring the crank and wiping out the bearings. The factory came out with what they called the Second Design Hi Po 409 late in '64, it had a cam with more lift, but the heads were 583 castings.They differed from the 690 head by having valve spring seats that were recessed deeper into the head to accommodate a taller valve spring without the coil bind. Now, the 583 head is quite a bit rarer than the 690's, so the fix is to put a cam in it with .480" or so total valve lift. Factory lash specs for the early cam were .018"intake lash,.030"exhaust lash. The later cam took .030" lash on both valves. Not a very quiet engine. It was a common mistake to put that second design cam in the earlier motor and have those kind of problems.
 

CASHguzzler409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 5
After many neck aches, my dash is back together, I still have to decide on changing the oil sending unit to electric. Im going to take out the clock and put it in that space, easier to see.
My heads came back, look great. Im going to have to poke fun at Jack Gibbs and his help, they sent us the wrong valve keepers, sent us 11/32 & should be 3/8, hahaha.. but the funny thing is, he doesn't have any helpers, it just him. oops, sorry Jack, even the Great one's, make mistakes.
Knowing Jacks humor, not to sure he'll be laughing at that.
Anyway, might have the engine back next weekend.
 
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