220 single phase to 3 phase help needed

[bobs409]

Calling all electricians! The spin balancer I just bought is a 220v 3 phase unit.

I've been searching the net for info on this and just getting more confused the further I go.

First off, let's start with the facts. (even confused about those, read on)

On the tag attached outside the unit, it has:
Volts 220
Amps 20
HZ 60
PH1

I took the top cover off to check the motor tag and it has this:

HP 1-1/2
Volts 230/460
Amps 6.6/3.3
RPM 850
PH3

Does the PH in these stand for the phase? If so, why does it have a 1 on the outer tag and a 3 on the motor?

The end plug was missing (was told they needed it for their new one) but it clearly has 4 wires in the cord. The one guy handed me a plug end to use but it's a 3 prong. Not sure if this is the one that was on this or not. Here's something that confuses me... 3 of the wires had the insulation trimmed back and appears to have been attached to a plug. The gray wire was cut off flush and looks to not have been used. Could they possibly have been using this wired that way??? :eek Would it even run like that?

The guy clearly told me these worked perfectly to the day they got their new ones so I don't expect anything wrong with it.

Now, after doing some research, I see there is something called a static converter but supposedly not a very good choice as only puts out 2/3 of the HP rating and can shorten the life of the motor. (correct?) I'm seeing another called a rotary converter. A bit pricey but may be the answer.

I need ANY help I can get on this.

The tire changer thankfully is a 110volt so it's plug and play but this one not so easy.

Many thanks in advance.

 

[LMBRJQ 60]

If you were in NZ Bob i could help you out no problem but your system over there still has me confused
Some three phase motors can be run on single phase with the use of capacitors to create a phase shift, a lot of chineese motors come into NZ like this.
The two voltage references on the motor over here would mean that we could run it through a Variable Speed drive that plugged into the single phase 230VAC supply and delivered 230VAC 3 phase output. The limit is the capacity of your single phase supply.
Sorry for the confusion, would love to help.
Steve

 

[bobs409]

Ok Steve, you just made it worse! (kidding)

Thanks.

 

[w ogden]

Bob, Who made the balancer...Hunter, Coates, Hoffman, Gorchi etc????? They all have repair reps that you can call that could bail you out. Be careful as many charge from portal to portal so make sure you know up front. It sounds to me like it was running on plain old 220 single. All of ours did as well but that is no guarantee.

 

[bobs409]

It's a Coats 1001.

I can't say for sure if they were using it with the one wire cut off but possibly. Too bad it didn't have the plug still on it, then I'd know. I didn't think it would even run like that but I'm no electrician.

 

[Dewman]

Bob, what are the colors of the wires that are trimmed back??? If one of the colors is green, it should be the ground wire, this would lead me to believe it was wired 1 phase, especially if the other 2 wires that were stripped back are black and red. I would suggest posting a pic of the trimmed wires, and a pic of the wire connections in the motor connection box, otherwise known as the peckerhead box.

Something is mis-labeled, pic's would help.

 

[Dick MacKenzie]

Bob,
Did you get the operating/installation instructions? If not try this link to download them in PDF format:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...f6WKM8f3nYGEsVYoA&sig2=BQljKj-erzeBH6ti6h7agw

Page 1 describes power requirements and optional power choices. Page 4 names the electric plug vendors necessary and describes how they are wired.

Concerning 3 phase vs. single phase I found this.

Three-phase vs. single-phase power


It seems that some of us are confused about the differences between single-phase and three-phase power (please note that contrary to popular belief, there is no such thing as two-phase power.)

Most residential homes are fed with single-phase power (sometimes called split-phase.) The power company runs three wires into the home which comprises of two hot wires and a neutral wire. The neutral is actually a center-tapped feed off the transformer. Voltage measured across both hot wires is 240 VAC. Voltage measured from any hot to neutral is 120 VAC (split-phase). So, a regular 120 VAC circuit is fed with one hot and the neutral (split-phase). A dryer or oven is fed with both hots which provides 240 VAC (single or full-phase). Some people mistakenly believe that a 240 VAC circuit is "two-phase," but they are wrong; it's actually the full phase of a single-phase circuit whereas the 120 VAC feeds are half-phase (split-phase).

Most commercial buildings are wired with three-phase power. Three phase power has three hot wires with each being 120 degrees out of phase with each other. Three-phase power can be more efficient than single-phase power in certain applications. Three-phase motors, for example, are much more powerful (or efficient) than their single-phase counterparts. And three-phase motors are cheaper because they are less complex and do not require starting capacitors. Here is a good analogy which should help you visualize the differences between the two: Using a single-phase supply is like one strong man pushing a car uphill. At some point, the work is beyond what that one man can do; whereas a three-phase supply is like having three equally strong men each pushing the car in a relay system one after another. The end result is that each man is doing 1/3 the work of the one strong man so, together, the three of them push the car further. Or, you can think of it like this: In the U.S., our power is generated at 60 Hz. So, a single-phase circuit's sine wave will swing +/- at a rate of 60 times per second. Think of it as 60 "pulses" or "pushes" of work per second. A three-phase circuit combines three single-phase circuits (each 120 degrees out of sync with the other) so in the same one second period of time you've got three "pulses" or "pushes" ... or three times the work!

To determine whether you have three-phase or single-phase power, simply measure the voltage between two hots or a hot and ground. You're most likely to encounter a three-phase circuit that shows 120 VAC between any hot and ground, and 208 VAC between any two hots. A single-phase circuit will show 120 VAC between a hot and ground, and 240 VAC between any two hots.

 

[Iowa 409 Guy]

According to the tag the motor is 3 phase. They must have changed it because the tag on the outside of the unit is single phase. I'd call the guys you bought it from, they might still have the original single phase motor around some where and may swap you for the 3 phase?

 

[Dewman]

http://partners.ammcoats.com/docman/viewFolder.asp?sParm=fdmoe-t

Here is the operating manual on the Coats 1001 balancer, in case you didn't get one with the purchase, unfortunatly the balancer could have been built from the factory 1 or 3 phase. I think Dave is onto something above concerning the motor being replaced.

 

[rstreet]

Bob you could buy a VFD unit to "add" a phase but I suspect the frame code on that motor is very common so it may be cheaper to find a used one ph motor. Or you could call the power company to get a cost in the thousands to pull in the third phase to your electrical entrance lots of options here but the best is to buy a used one ph motor
Robert

 

[bobs409]

Thanks guys. I'll take some pics of the wiring, motor and internal stuff tomorrow so maybe that will help.

The operators manual in the link above is a little different than the one I got. Maybe it was a revised edition. Will study that more.

 

[quik9r]

All I can say is 220 or 221 what ever it takes.

quik9r beer just a flow'in

 

[64ss409]

The local repair shop has one like this to run their 3 phase Bridgeport mill.

 

[Swiss Impala]

Bob, electrical power can be dangerous! The best thing in such a situation, do as I would, call a professional electrician and
he will do a professional job. Then you can enjoy your new machine without any danger. Just my opinion and the way I go in
such situations.

Franz

 

[Jim409_Pontiac]

Bob: You can get phase converters. My computer repair guy and I went to an auction and both bought Bridgeport mills. They were 3 phase. I have 3 phase at my shop but he didn't at home. He actually made his own phase converter somehow by using an additional electric motor he had. His mill is still 3 phase but runs off his 220 single phase house power. Think he said he got the plans on the INTERNET.

 

[Iowa 409 Guy]

Bob

If the 3 phase motor on the unit now runs 850 rpm's you are probably going to have a problem replacing it with a single phase because most of them run 1800 rpm or more. Don't know how much room you have to put the correct drive and driven sheaves to get the correct rpm. Maybe put a gear reducer in like 4:88 or something. Nothin's ever easy is it??

 

[bobs409]

I doubt I would even find a motor to replace this. It's a direct drive so no pulleys or belts. Would have to be the same shape/size and have the same output shaft, etc.

Even if I did find a single phase motor, there would probably be other things that would have to be done like changing capacitors and who know what else in there. ?? :eek

I think a converter is about my only option. I can get a static converter for as little as $69 dollars or a rotary in the $295.00+ range.

It's all confusing to me. I keep searching but still I'm lost.

I'll be posting some pics very soon so stay tuned...

 

[bobs409]

Bob, what are the colors of the wires that are trimmed back??? If one of the colors is green, it should be the ground wire, this would lead me to believe it was wired 1 phase, especially if the other 2 wires that were stripped back are black and red. I would suggest posting a pic of the trimmed wires, and a pic of the wire connections in the motor connection box, otherwise known as the peckerhead box.

Something is mis-labeled, pic's would help.

First off I learned something. My camera SUCKS! It doesn't pick up detail.

Now, the cord has 4 wires inside of it. Red, Black, Green and White. The white one is cut off not only at the plug end but also inside! That proves they were using it like this.

Does this mean it's wired for a 220 single phase?

I'm going to try re-taking the photos with the flash off, maybe that will help. Be back...

 

[bobs409]

Ok, not much better but here's some terrible pics:

First shows the cord on the inside with the cut off white wire. Appears that the gray wire is being used as a ground.



And here's the plug end with the white wire cut down not being used. Other 3 clearly were.



And here's quick peak at the innerds. 4 capacitors to the left, sand bag for weight lower center and all that "other stuff" to the right.



I'll be impatiently waiting for a reply.

 

[58 Apache]

Well Bob it appears that you have a single phase unit. I am not big on how they wired it but I would like to know why they didn't use the white wire for the return and used the green. In the pic of the innerds is that a white wire hooked to the metal case below the green wire?