327 engine

Carmine

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 10
Hi everyone. Question for you. My '62 came with a '68 327 engine. The engine ran well and I have it on an engine stand. I may or may not use it someday. I heard something mentioned once about journal size. Would this be the main bearing journals?? I was told that the '62 through ???? 327 was a better motor to build because it has smaller journals?? I'm wondering if I heard this correctly?? If so, why would the smaller journals be better for a built?? Thanks, Carmine.
 

Don Jacks

Well Seasoned Member
Supporting Member 3
The biggest advantage to the large journal block is the ease of larger displacements due to the available "drop-in"kits.On 68- later blocks,both the rod and main journals were increased over the early blocks.
 

Carmine

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 10
Thanks everyone. Now I have a better understanding. I've always liked the 327 and that's why I kept the one I have. My mother had that motor in her '62 Impala and I raced the hell out of it. If I was ever to use it in something, I think I would make a stroker motor out of it, Carmine.
 

LMBRJQ 60

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 4
Thanks everyone. Now I have a better understanding. I've always liked the 327 and that's why I kept the one I have. My mother had that motor in her '62 Impala and I raced the hell out of it. If I was ever to use it in something, I think I would make a stroker motor out of it, Carmine.

correct me if im wrong but a large journal 327 is effectively a 350 block with a shorter stroke crank?
As such if it was mine i would keep it as it is and make a run of the mill 350 into a stroker
if it is a 68 engine what did it come out of? may be worth keeping as it is, Camaro?, Corvette?
Just my opinion

Steve
 

Don Jacks

Well Seasoned Member
Supporting Member 3
Camaro,full size car,Malibu in 327 trim,not Corvette in 68 Steve.The most common ones were the low compression 2bbl units that were the base engine in a Camaro,and the higher compression,better headed 4 bbl.units at 275 hp.
 
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k9hotrodder409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 15
Smaller journal would mean less bearing speed. Not really an issue unless you spin the motor up REAL hard.
Smaller journal would mean less bearing speed. Not really an issue unless you spin the motor up REAL hard.

I've heard it both ways.....small journal is better....No, large journal is the way to go!

Six of one , half dozen of the other. Boxers or briefs.

Smaller journal would mean less bearing speed. Not really an issue unless you spin the motor up REAL hard.
The 327 race motor in "joint Venture " was a small journal 327 with a 283 crank .07-16-2010 03_11_31pm_00.jpg:love
:love:crazy:cheers
 

nana1962409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
If I recall correctly all small journal 327 crankshafts are forged where most of the large journal ones are cast. May or may not make a difference depending on what your planning on doing with it.
 

Don 409

Well Known Member
I have a 68 Corvette with the large journal 327, 300 hp engine they also came with 350 hp. I can't remember if the crank was forged or cast. The 67 Corvette small block was the 327 small journal engine and in 1969 the small block engine in the Corvette was the 350.
Don
 

Don Jacks

Well Seasoned Member
Supporting Member 3
There were a few steel large journal 327 cranks made in 68, and they were used in the 325 and 350 horse engines.Quite rare and expensive when found.They were used in the ChevyII[325 HP],and the Corvette[350hp].I've built several cast crank 350 street/strip engines around the cast crank,never had a failure,even with a 125 shot.Crank preperation is the key,as well as rpm limits of less than 6500.
 
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Greg Reimer

Well Known Member
OK, guys, here goes nuttin.'I've raced NHRA Stock Eliminator for the last 25 years.My car of choice was a pretty good combination at the time, it was a '68 Chevelle 2 dr HT with a 327, a Powerglide, a 12 bolt with good axles,a spool, 5.38 or 5.57 gears, nine inch by 29.5 radial slicks, and this combo has the small valve 3917290 low compression small valve heads. It was rated at 250 horsepower, NHRA refactored it to 245, it runs J,K or L /SA. Depends on weight. That was a very common combination in the early '70s, still a few of us racing it today. It started out going 12.60's, it has gone 12.20's at Winternationals a few years ago.
The 68 cars were the first year of the large journal 327, although the sanctioning body lets us use the small journal version as well. The early 250 horse 327,62-64 used either a 520 or an 896 head,same as the 63-67 283's, it makes over 10 to 1 CR on a 327.The 68 290 head is a one year only affair that turns out to be about 8.75:1 CR, and that's after the block is decked to specs and the heads are CC'd and cut. The 275 horse 327 came with a 461 casting, a 291 casting, maybe a few others.The'68 engine has a 462 or a 292 casting. I can't use the earlier heads on a 68 car, but earlier cars can use the later heads. I sold off all my 461 heads some years ago.The small journal 327 used a 2" rod bearing like a 283 did. That wasn't the problem. The early rods don't tend to be very strong at the big end where the beam flares out at the journal area.The large journal rod was the exact rod put in a 350. It has 3/8"rod bolts, as to 11/32" bolts in the smaller rod,another improvement. Length was 5.700"in both applications.Pistons were the exact same in both versions,the earlier crank and rods were lighter than the large journal, but the additional strength of the large journal parts more than offset the additional weight. We are allowed aftermarket rods from an approved aftermarket parts list that NHRA released, so I use a forged Manley rod. We bush the small end,the pin diameter remains the same at 9.270"diameter,they weigh around 555 grams,never a problem yet. The OEM steel crank isn't a problem,I've collected a few large journal steel ones, even have a couple cast ones, and a few small journal cranks as well.The 307 engine that came out in 68 until 73 used the exact same cast crank as the 68-69 327's, the same large journal rods, and the block was a large journal 3 7/8" bore block. A steel 302 crank and some good rods and pistons would make a pretty stout 283.If you want to build a restoration, stock parts are very adequate. Any time a small block has to turn past 6500 repeatedly, the life span of the rods shortens drastically.If you magna fluxed, resized, used SPS type bolts, shot peened and did everything to a stock rod, it would be OK to 7500, but you would still start with an OEM rod. The question is-how many hundred thousand miles did they accumulate in regular service?In the four cycle engine, one cycle operates under little stress. The second cycle confronts increasing stress on the compression cycle,then the power cycle pushes it even more.The exhaust cycle is the worst, as there is suddenly no stress on top of the piston with an open exhaust valve. The piston arrives at high speed at top dead center,and the only thing stopping the rod and piston is the two rod bolts. The big end of the rod flexes a little bit, as well. How much does the rod stretch?If I set up a 327 with .030" or less total deck with gasket, race the car, then pull a head, you can see an imprint of the outline of the combustion chamber on the piston.It's faint,but it's there. Now. An engine turning 2000 RPM's rotates the crank 33 1/3 times a second, 100 times in 3 seconds,2000 revolutions per minute. 500 minutes is 1,000,000 revolutions of the crank. At 50 miles per hour, it probably rotates about that speed, so in 8 hours and 20 minutes, the million turns point has been reached. If you drive faster, it occurs at the same point on the map, but happens sooner. If you leve San Diego and head north on the 5, you rotated the crank a million times when you go through Sacramento.Now, at that slow of an RPM, stretching and relaxing of the rod would be minimal,but that's still 500,000 duty cycles on that rod. How many times can you flex or stretch a steel part before it fatigues and breaks? Now, if the piston is way heavier, it happens sooner because the fatigue loads are worse.
If I build another 409, I would forget about a 6" OEM steel forged rod. I would get the strongest 6.135 big block Chevy rod, maybe even a 6.300" rod, use a shorter than OEM pin, and get the piston as light as I could. OEM big block rods usually needed quite a bit of work to get them crack and stress free, quite often took a lot more than 8 rods to get 8 good ones, not worth the effort, use the best aftermarket forging they make. That heavy piston at 7000 RPM broke a lot of rods and motors. It's amazing they work as well as they do.
If a car is used in long distance Interstate highway use, with an average RPM of 2500, how many revolutions did it turn in 100,000 miles?That's assuming normal use. Bet it would amaze you!
 

Greg Reimer

Well Known Member
Wow. Thanks for all that data! That was a great detailed expose' of all things Chevelle! The info on all the build codes for engine,trans and rear end was nice, also the shipping weights for all the models. That seems to be what NHRA must have used to arrive at class weights.
 
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