327 starting ticking loudly

Greg Reimer

Well Known Member
Your drains in the head appear to be clogged, if the valve cover was filled with oil. You have to figure out why the oil isn't returning to the bottom of the engine before you do anything else. You might have bigger problems than just a tick. Spraying anything on the lifters and springs is going to be a waste of product. It works best when installed in the oil, so it can go where it is needed.
Worst mess like that that I ever saw was in my auto shop days at Pasadena City College in the early '70's. A college employee bought an immaculate 63 or so Thunderbird, 390 and all, around 45,000 original miles, but the engine smoked rather profusely when hot and it seemed to never have had its oil changed anytime recently. Those engines tended to produce lots of sludge due to the size and weight of the FE motor, and the fact it only ran about 160 degrees when fully warmed up, which this one probably never achieved. The valve cover gaskets were saturated and leaking, so the shop teacher said to pull the valve covers. When the bolts were removed and the covers broke loose, about a quart per side of pitch black oil spilled out on both sides of the engine all over the floor. Each cover must have weighed about 20 pounds because they were totally packed with sludge. You could barely find the rocker arm shafts, the whole valve trim was encased in sludge. Shop teacher said to remove the rocker arm shaft assemblies and place them in a bucket of stuff called Gunk. We almost couldn't see the pushrods, the tops of the heads and the intake manifold area was completely buried in it. We spent two four hour class sessions digging it out. A table spoon seemed to be the best tool for it, but some of the push rod holes were completely blocked except where the push rods went through. He said for us to pull the intake. Easier said than done on a clean FE let alone this dirty thing. We got the intake off, and it, the valve covers, and the lifter valley baffle spent a weekend and two more days in the hot tank. The entire lifter valley was full of hardened black sludge and it took two of us a couple more days of shop time to dig it out as best as we could. The smoke was caused by the fact that oil couldn't drain back from the top of the heads due to the return holes being blocked, so the intake valve guides were probably where most of the return oil went. We pulled the pan plug and black tar like oil slowly drained out. We scraped, solvent washed, scrubbed, and worked on it until we got the lifter valley almost clean as new. We went through a lot of solvent doing it. We took apart and practically rebuilt the rocker arm shaft assemblies, making sure the oil holes in the shaft that lubed the rockers were all open,so that and everything else in the realm of small parts sat in a bucket of Gunk for about a week. The other thing of note was the rancid smell all that sludge made. We poured about two quarts of clean stoddard solvent in the lifter valley with the pan plug out in order to rinse it the best we could, the shop instructor didn't want to get involved with it any deeper than we did because the semester wasn't long enough to finish it properly, so we painted the valve covers, made sure the oil return passages through the heads into the lifter valley were open, we installed the valley pan, which actually looked quite nice after a week in the gunk, the intake, the valve train, the valve covers with nice new Ford blue paint and new gaskets, we put fresh oil and a new filter on it,(the old filter almost defied all efforts to get it off),dropped in the distributor, and lit it off. After a few minutes of running the motor, it seemed warmed up, so the instructor and two students drove off in it and returned in a half hour or so, and since it ran pretty well, the T bird was considered OK for the owner to drive. We must have had a three gallon bucket of sludge to show for our efforts, and the black stuff on our hands was almost impossible to get off. It stained like printer's ink. In retrospect, we should have at least dropped the pan and replaced the oil pump, since those used to fail rather occasionally on those motors. All that work because the original owner never changed the oil!! At least we got a grade for it.
 
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Greg Reimer

Well Known Member
During my six year stint working for L.A.County Mechanical Department, I did a lot of engine work. I had five years experience in Chevy dealerships, and most of that was line mechanic work. At the County, we didn't usually rebuild anything, we put Goodwrench crate engines in cars and trucks. One fine day, the lube guy had a three year old Chevy or GMC pickup on the lift, and he pulled off the filter and took the pan plug out, and no oil would come out. He stuck a long skinny small screwdriver in it, and it came out covered with a substance that looked like roofing tar. The oil had emulsified, meaning that it tried to return to its pre refined state similar to crude oil. He showed the stupidvisor, who called me over. I suggested that we needed to drop the pan, replace the oil pump, and the pickup. He called for permission to do just that, so the job was assigned to me. The pan was heavy just like the one mentioned last, and the pump and pickup was encased in real thick petroleum based goo. Seemed that this three year old truck had around 40,000 miles on it and nobody ever brought it in for its required preventative maintenance since it was new. I don't know how that stuff ever could have lubed the bearings and related engine parts, but we decided to replace the pump and pickup and, since I had a few spare pans that were clean,I replaced it as well. Shop foreman said that we should fill it back up with a new oil filter and 5 quarts of trans fluid, warm the engine up and see if it was OK, against all odds. I did all that, the engine stayed quiet when warm, and he asked me if I could get away for an extended road test. I couldn't that day, so he left around 10:30 that morning and got back around 2 PM. Seemed that he wanted to flush the engine out real good, so he drove out the I-10 from East L.A. through Downtown, out to Santa Monica, up Highway 1 through Malibu to a point just over the Ventura County line called Neptune's Net, a real popular seafood restaurant, also known for the large accumulation of Harleys in the front, and had a good long lunch. I wished I would have gone along, after all, would you rather look at a shop full of cars and trucks all day, or drive through Malibu on a warm day? We changed the very black ATF and the filter, put fresh oil in it and sent it on its way. I'm sure the using agency that the truck was assigned to got a real well written Vehicle Abuse report that next week.
 
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TheLRZ

Well Known Member
Worst mess like that that I ever saw was in my auto shop days at Pasadena City College in the early '70's. A college employee bought an immaculate 63 or so Thunderbird, 390 and all, around 45,000 original miles, but the engine smoked rather profusely when hot and it seemed to never have had its oil changed anytime recently. Those engines tended to produce lots of sludge due to the size and weight of the FE motor, and the fact it only ran about 160 degrees when fully warmed up, which this one probably never achieved. The valve cover gaskets were saturated and leaking, so the shop teacher said to pull the valve covers. When the bolts were removed and the covers broke loose, about a quart per side of pitch black oil spilled out on both sides of the engine all over the floor. Each cover must have weighed about 20 pounds because they were totally packed with sludge. You could barely find the rocker arm shafts, the whole valve trim was encased in sludge. Shop teacher said to remove the rocker arm shaft assemblies and place them in a bucket of stuff called Gunk. We almost couldn't see the pushrods, the tops of the heads and the intake manifold area was completely buried in it. We spent two four hour class sessions digging it out. A table spoon seemed to be the best tool for it, but some of the push rod holes were completely blocked except where the push rods went through. He said for us to pull the intake. Easier said than done on a clean FE let alone this dirty thing. We got the intake off, and it, the valve covers, and the lifter valley baffle spent a weekend and two more days in the hot tank. The entire lifter valley was full of hardened black sludge and it took two of us a couple more days of shop time to dig it out as best as we could. The smoke was caused by the fact that oil couldn't drain back from the top of the heads due to the return holes being blocked, so the intake valve guides were probably where most of the return oil went. We pulled the pan plug and black tar like oil slowly drained out. We scraped, solvent washed, scrubbed, and worked on it until we got the lifter valley almost clean as new. We went through a lot of solvent doing it. We took apart and practically rebuilt the rocker arm shaft assemblies, making sure the oil holes in the shaft that lubed the rockers were all open,so that and everything else in the realm of small parts sat in a bucket of Gunk for about a week. The other thing of note was the rancid smell all that sludge made. We poured about two quarts of clean stoddard solvent in the lifter valley with the pan plug out in order to rinse it the best we could, the shop instructor didn't want to get involved with it any deeper than we did because the semester wasn't long enough to finish it properly, so we painted the valve covers, made sure the oil return passages through the heads into the lifter valley were open, we installed the valley pan, which actually looked quite nice after a week in the gunk, the intake, the valve train, the valve covers with nice new Ford blue paint and new gaskets, we put fresh oil and a new filter on it,(the old filter almost defied all efforts to get it off),dropped in the distributor, and lit it off. After a few minutes of running the motor, it seemed warmed up, so the instructor and two students drove off in it and returned in a half hour or so, and since it ran pretty well, the T bird was considered OK for the owner to drive. We must have had a three gallon bucket of sludge to show for our efforts, and the black stuff on our hands was almost impossible to get off. It stained like printer's ink. In retrospect, we should have at least dropped the pan and replaced the oil pump, since those used to fail rather occasionally on those motors. All that work because the original owner never changed the oil!! At least we got a grade for it.
I know a couple of guys in my club who don’t do oil.
Same guys have 3-4 cars each sitting not running in the garage
Thanks for sharing
 
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TheLRZ

Well Known Member
During my six year stint working for L.A.County Mechanical Department, I did a lot of engine work. I had five years experience in Chevy dealerships, and most of that was line mechanic work. At the County, we didn't usually rebuild anything, we put Goodwrench crate engines in cars and trucks. One fine day, the lube guy had a three year old Chevy or GMC pickup on the lift, and he pulled off the filter and took the pan plug out, and no oil would come out. He stuck a long skinny small screwdriver in it, and it came out covered with a substance that looked like roofing tar. The oil had emulsified, meaning that it tried to return to its pre refined state similar to crude oil. He showed the stupidvisor, who called me over. I suggested that we needed to drop the pan, replace the oil pump, and the pickup. He called for permission to do just that, so the job was assigned to me. The pan was heavy just like the one mentioned last, and the pump and pickup was encased in real thick petroleum based goo. Seemed that this three year old truck had around 40,000 miles on it and nobody ever brought it in for its required preventative maintenance since it was new. I don't know how that stuff ever could have lubed the bearings and related engine parts, but we decided to replace the pump and pickup and, since I had a few spare pans that were clean,I replaced it as well. Shop foreman said that we should fill it back up with a new oil filter and 5 quarts of trans fluid, warm the engine up and see if it was OK, against all odds. I did all that, the engine stayed quiet when warm, and he asked me if I could get away for an extended road test. I couldn't that day, so he left around 10:30 that morning and got back around 2 PM. Seemed that he wanted to flush the engine out real good, so he drove out the I-10 from East L.A. through Downtown, out to Santa Monica, up Highway 1 through Malibu to a point just over the Ventura County line called Neptune's Net, a real popular seafood restaurant, also known for the large accumulation of Harleys in the front, and had a good long lunch. I wished I would have gone along, after all, would you rather look at a shop full of cars and trucks all day, or drive through Malibu on a warm day? We changed the very black ATF and the filter, put fresh oil in it and sent it on its way. I'm sure the using agency that the truck was assigned to got a real well written Vehicle Abuse report that next week.
So you run 5 quarts of Transmission fluid for the drive? What does it do better than oil in this case? For flushing....
 
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Iowa 409 Guy

Well Seasoned Member
Supporting Member 15
I took the leaking valve covers off my 58 283 and sludge was everywhere. Not as bad as described above though. I figured the previous owners used non detergent oil or just didn't change it.
 

Greg Reimer

Well Known Member
So you run 5 quarts of Transmission fluid for the drive? What does it do better than oil in this case? For flushing....
ATF is approximately 5 weight oil with a very high detergent content, obviously, the valve body in a trans wouldn't stand for sludge in it, although sometimes varnish would appear in a valve body and cause problems. That usually happened after the fluid got discolored due to age and heat, then faulty shifting and slippage would happen with trans failure soon afterward . Putting that stuff in the sludged up T bird would or could have caused sludge to partially dissolve and move somewhere else in the engine and cause problems. The truck with the emulsified oil was an attempt to cut some of the deposits in the engine, dissolving as much of it as possible, and holding it in suspension so that it would come out upon the truck returning to the shop and draining it before putting on a new filter and fresh oil. That procedure was an attempt to loosen and rinse out a lot of the emulsified oil. It would never get rid of all of it, although most of it came out in the pan when it was removed to change the pump. I wondered what the next thing to go in that motor would be, probably the camshaft and lifters. If you have an old motor with a lot of sludge in it, first make sure the PCV valve is open and working on it, then you could try that trick. You never will get rid of old sludge like that without tearing the motor down and hot tanking everything, or a lot of manual cleaning. Old oils made before the 1970's didn't have the detergent additives to prevent that sort of thing, and some oils seemed to do it more than others, especially the cheaper 30 wt. grades. Pennzoil tended to leave it behind as well.
 
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409newby

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 11
A teacher in high school when retiring called and asked me if I would be interested in the 396 out of his 67 impala that he just had replaced with a new long block, I picked it up at a Chevrolet dealer and was planning on putting it in a 68 k10 4X4 the original oil pan would not fit so I found one from a truck 396. he told me since new he had used 20/20 Pennzoil so I was assuming lots of sludge, he also said the only issue with the car since new was leaking valve cover gaskets about 5,000 miles from new , the inside of this 396 was spotless, so that dispelled the old Pennzoil rumors :doh
 

Junky

Well Known Member
I had a 1966 Pontiac that I purchased from the dealer, because of no oil pressure. I filled the engine with lacquer thinner, as far up as possible, and let it sit for a couple of weeks, before draining it into a metal pan. Then filtered the thinner through cheese cloth, and poured it back into the engine, and flushed it through the crankcase drain a few more times. Installed a new oil filter, and a 50/50 mix of dextron and 10 weight oil, and drove the car for a day. Brought it into the shop and changed oil and filter a few more times after driving it. Sold the car to a friends father, and he drove the car for many more years, until the rust worms were finished eating away at the body. I would see that car for routine oil changes and always marveled at how well it ran. Sometimes you get lucky, real lucky.
 
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