409 Addiction & Addition

[Phalen409]

I am having a real problem on what to do here with the Z-11 engine build and am looking for some help and opinions from the field! ....My desire is to use all, or most, of the original Z parts and keep this build as original as possible. My wish might be getting in the way of practicality.

The original pistons are close to "as new" with no signs of ware. The original 0 series crank and 409 rods will be use. All 8 cylinders on the standard QB block will be sleeved and match each cylinder to the individual piston and there appears to be a couple of pits in a couple of the cylinders that may not clean up with honing alone.

Question is:.... What would you do?.....Original pistons and use race fuel.......or aftermarket, 10 or 10.5 pistons and pump premium gas?? ....All other components will be original Z-11 components, with the exception of a solid roller and new valves and rockers.

Chime in!!!!!

 

[MRHP]

I would use new Pistons. Just for the drivability factor, but also for the weight and metallurgy. A modern camshaft will take care of any power lost by compression. I would also have a hard time using stock rods. If you do go aftermarket Pistons, go with a bbc rod and make the bottom end about bulletproof.

 

[yellow wagon]

^ this. But don't skimp on the compression! These engines sounds awesome partly because of that big compression!

 

[Don Jacks]

I agree,I'd set it up no more than 11.5 if you're going fairly aggressive on that solid roller cam.Something the 238-244 @.050 range should work ,given the relitivly short stroke.

 

[boxerdog]

I'd say put away the original pistons and rods because you don't want to risk the rest of the engine. Get something modern, light and new. Maybe Diamonds?? And quality non-Chinese rods. Get as much compression as possible and add a solid roller. I'm a little greedier than Don in that respect!!

 

[Jim Sullivan]

I'm no engine expert, but I would be inclined to save the original rods and pistons and go new like everyone said above. Less chance of hurting the rest of the engine.

 

[409envy]

It all depends on what you want out of the car. If you want "originality" then you have one choice in my view. Build the engine with all original parts...
However, since we have advanced a lot in the 50+ years since the Z11 was introduced I would, at the very least use new high quality fasteners ie; ARP's for the main and rod bolts... I would also shelve the original connecting rods since they were the weak link in these engines to begin with. Get yourself a nice set of high quality forged i beam or h beam rods and good bearings.

Keep the compression as close to original as possible! The allure of the Z-11 is the fact that it had 13.5:1 compression. In my opinion you cannot fake that sound by crutching up a low (relative to the original) compression engine with a big cam shaft. It will not have the presence that you want and you will ultimately be disappointed. And if your worried about running race gas i mean c'mon.... your building a Z-11!!!!!

As far as valve train goes.... I would order a "blueprint" reproduction Z-11 camshaft from Crane cams. Get a set of solid lifters from isky or comp with EDM oil holes. Have the cam nitrided and run a really high quality "zinc" motor oil. You should be fine if you use quality components. Or if you are dead set against running a solid lifter cam have a custom roller grind that gets as close to the original as possible...

It ultimately comes down to what you want to do with the car. If its going to see any abuse at all in the way of racing or long distance driving I would go with aftermarket internals for the bottom end and save the "unobtainium" parts for posterity. If you want to have the car as a time capsule piece that you occasionally start up and take out on a Sunday then use as much of the original components as possible...

Either way its going to be AWESOME!!!

Just my humble opinion...

 

[Phalen409]

I can assure you, this motor WON'T be raced......I don't think! ...... Well not on the track......but maybe just once!!

 

[Last 60]

I can assure you, this motor WON'T be raced......I don't think! ...... Well not on the track......but maybe just once!!

I can ASSURE you that at some point and time that you won't be able to help yourself and you will NAIL that puppy! And probably more than once!!! Have fun!!

Lonnie

 

[Jeff Olson]

I can assure you, this motor WON'T be raced......I don't think! ...... Well not on the track......but maybe just once!!

Spoken like a true politician!

 

[MRHP]

If driven on the street 11.5 compression. Anything more is a nightmare to tune. Unfortunately I know first hand.

 

[Phalen409]

Beginning to get some progress going with the interior. Having to order new material from CARS INC. to get the front seats to way they should have been when initially ordered. I won't belabor this topic anymore other than to say I HAD TO BUY the material to get this job done. After much working on the rear seat covers, (resew), the rear seats are finally in.

 

[blkblk63ss]

You buying another 63 after this one???? Just kidding,,,,,,, your seat's look great!!!!

 

[Fathead Racing]

Beginning to get some progress going with the interior. Having to order new material from CARS INC. to get the front seats to way they should have been when initially ordered. I won't belabor this topic anymore other than to say I HAD TO BUY the material to get this job done. After much working on the rear seat covers, (resew), the rear seats are finally in.


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Sweet. Let me understand. Your saying if you use the original Pistons you will have to sleeve the bores to match the Pistons? That's not practical even in the day. The guys that were running the Z 11's in the day wouldn't consider doing that. Replacement "over" Pistons, forged, would be the ticket here. Replacing the original Pistons with the newer "lighter" Pistons will make the original connecting rods seem like their stronger by lightening the reciprocating weight and be close to original. If your really into originality and are worried about windowing the block you can smooth and shot peen the rods. ARP rod bolts would be an upgrade that anyone would have used in the day. Next, and here's the capper. If anyone asks if it's an original Z 11 lie and tell them yes!

 

[Phalen409]

A decision has been made on the Z-11. Block over .020 or the minimum to clean up any pits. New forged pistons. New rods - Original crank will be used. The pistons will most likely be Diamonds, and most likely be above 11 to 1's or higher. It's race fuel on this one! For the moment, I have a posi 3.73 rear and a Syracuse auto gear M-23 installed as it sits now. I have an original T-10 nickeled gear date correct trans. that may go in. ....Not for a while, however. Need an aluminum front clip now!!!

 

[Phalen409]

You buying another 63 after this one???? Just kidding,,,,,,, your seat's look great!!!!

Actually.....I really want a 61 or 62 bubble top. Then again .....I REALLY like the 63 Biscayne. I will have the newly built Gibbs stroker that needs a home when the Z goes in the green car.

 

[blkblk63ss]

Actually.....I really want a 61 or 62 bubble top. Then again .....I REALLY like the 63 Biscayne. I will have the newly built Gibbs stroker that needs a home when the Z goes in the green car.

Are the gear's turning Phil????

 

[63 dream'n]

Beginning to get some progress going with the interior. Having to order new material from CARS INC. to get the front seats to way they should have been when initially ordered. I won't belabor this topic anymore otfitmentn to say I HAD TO BUY the material to get this job done. After much working on the rear seat covers, (resew), the rear seats are finally in.


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Your interior looks fantastic............sorry to hear about fitment issues