409 notched radiator problem.

#1
I purchased a new radiator for the 63 impala I am building. Purchased it from classic industries, notched aluminum for use with a 500 steering box. The problem is it does not mount to the radiator shroud. The mounting distance between the bolt with the original support is 27 inches. The mounting centers on the radiator are 27 1/2 inches. Has any one else run into this problem. I am afraid of increasing the notches on the radiator as it will be too close to the side tanks. The box it came in was from OER repro parts.
 

blkblk63ss

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 5
#2
This is the radiator that i purchased with the more severe notch and it fit the bolt holes. I did lower it by cutting in wider slot to lower a 1/4 inch as i measured the clearance to radiator cap and was making a mark on the hood support . I felt this radiator would clear my 600 Delphi box much better since i went to global west bump steer kit ,which move's gear box much further to front of car and a different angle. They mention that this is the one needed for a 500 gear box. The previous aluminum radiator i had before also was kissing the hood support . M133417918.jpg I have heard that this radiator { bottom} still has clearance problem's with a power gear box . My gear box end was hitting the lower seam on my none notched radiator so i lowered it and got to clear the seam and even had to trim the outer radiator side support . I thought i avoided buying a notched radiator , but when i went to mount the global west sway bar which mount's further ahead of frame , the pivot bracket's lacked contacting frame about two inches because the bar hit the lower hose connector outlet .I thought of spacing it ,but then the sway bar would slope down and hit top of tie rod end. So i ordered the top radiator for $299.00 from Hand H classic's but there are other vendor's that handle it also. Both radiator's fit the bolt hole's horizontal on the radiator support and shroud, and i have room to spare for the gear box with the more severe notched one. Hope this help's...... AL010282ANDZ.JPG
 
#3
I got to thinking about another thing. My impala was a 327 and I am putting in a 409 radiator. Are the radiator supports the same? Looking through various catalogs the do not seem to list different supports. Has any one noticed a difference in the supports when going from a small block to big block radiator?
 

ROYALOAK62

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Supporting Member 1
#4
Had to return the 1st Griffin notched radiator because the radiator fill tube was to high.
The 2nd radiator with the shorter tube cured the problem of the cap hitting the hood.

Dave
 

Phil Reed

Well Seasoned Member
Supporting Member 10
#5
I got to thinking about another thing. My impala was a 327 and I am putting in a 409 radiator. Are the radiator supports the same? Looking through various catalogs the do not seem to list different supports. Has any one noticed a difference in the supports when going from a small block to big block radiator?
All 1963 radiator supports are the same.
 

pvs409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 7
#6
All small block and 409 cars have the same radiator support.
I have 409 radiators in 2 -327 cars no difference in the supports and the radiator mounting location nuts that have factory nuts in the supports.
My opinion is to return the radiator. The radiator should fit your support. Whomever is making that
radiator should be making it to fit factory radiator supports. Again typical of poor reproduction parts that
I have been finding more every year.
Paul
 

blkblk63ss

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 5
#8
I would check out this radiator from Show Cars in New Ulm, Minnesota.
They make lots of 409 items and have for many years.

http://www.show-cars.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=8223
Paul
In my case I felt this small cut out on the bottom tank would not clear my box because my box is moved forward to front of car and they send a different mounting plate to remount the 600 box I already had. (Red 409 63 since you do not have the global west kit you might be ok with Paul's recommendation.). The box hit directly on the welded seam . That is the reason I lowered the first non notched radiator I had to put the seam below the part of gear box hitting it. After lowering it I cleared the seam but still had to cut a notch on the outside flange plate to clear and I was still against the cooling fin's above welded seam. I would say all radiator's would have this lower seam in the same location. As far as height location.I have read on this site where a person had his tank notched and did not go above seam and still did not clear. He was installing a 500 gear box with 3 core radiator on a 61 Impala. He modified the gear box frame mounting hole's . (Not good).... Like I said I got the radiator to clear but then sway bar would hit lower hose outlet. ( first post)......I just wanted to be sure radiator would clear ,and not have the hassle of returning it if it would not clear.They mention the deeper notched radiator is mecessary to clear the 500 gear box. I think 500 and 600 box are the same dimension. Maybe the other will work for you ,maybe not . I know mine fit's great and lot of room between gear box and radiator and resovoir power steering pump and the 600 Delphi box . The global west bump steer kit my car just could not be any better, the way it now drive's very pleased with it. Just saying what worked for me.....
 
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pvs409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 7
#9
I have a professionally made mounting plate ( made on C & C machine ) for my 600 series Borgenson steering box.
I can have more plates made. This mounting plate bolts to my factory frame holes using the factory mounting bolts. It has 3 threaded holes to mount the 600 series steering box
" This plate allows my 4 core 409 radiator - that I recored with a new brass core-- to be mounted and ...it clears my 600 series steering box" I do not need a notched radiator, the plate was made to modify the mounting enough to clear a 4 core radiator.
This setup is on my 62 SS 409 convertible frame off that will be ready for the road, this spring.
I have a Global West system for the convertible but, I don't plan on using it.
Paul
 

blkblk63ss

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 5
#10
I have a professionally made mounting plate ( made on C & C machine ) for my 600 series Borgenson steering box.
I can have more plates made. This mounting plate bolts to my factory frame holes using the factory mounting bolts. It has 3 threaded holes to mount the 600 series steering box
" This plate allows my 4 core 409 radiator - that I recored with a new brass core-- to be mounted and ...it clears my 600 series steering box" I do not need a notched radiator, the plate was made to modify the mounting enough to clear a 4 core radiator.
This setup is on my 62 SS 409 convertible frame off that will be ready for the road, this spring.
I have a Global West system for the convertible but, I don't plan on using it.
Paul
More so than not, you still have the bump steer issue.These car's had this problem in stock form. Watch the global west video .
 

pvs409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 7
#11
Yes I have looked at their videos. Thats why I bought the Global West System (without the Borgenson Box - I bought the Borgenson box about 4/5 years before I found the Global West System).

The item I don't like is the location of the Global West stabilizer bar. I have a restored power coated frame and I don't at this point want to modify the frame to make the Global West stabilizer bar fit. So I am going to try the 62 SS 409 convertible (alignment, drive the car) without the Global West System and using the stock stabilizer bar with the Borgenson box, before I determine if I am using the Global West System. I have 3 other 62's with stock Power steering and suspension and they seem fine to me to drive without the Global West System.

I also have a Addco 1" stabilizer bar that mounts in the stock stabilzer bar location that I may use without the Global West system as a option.

Off course my driving 62's relates to having owned and driven about 18 - 57 to 64 Chevy' s(my father was a used car dealer -I got different cars about every 3 to 8 months ), so I had about 38 classsics in the late 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's Since the 80's and in the 90's to now, I have had 10 more(some restored for others and mine that I sold).

I will try the Global West System if the 62 SS 409 Convertible does not drive the way it should with the Borgenson 600 Series steering box. I could not get the 600 series box to fit(steering shaft hit the frame) on my 62 SS 409 Hardtop about 5/7 years ago so I installed the stock 409 Power steering.

Paul
 

blkblk63ss

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 5
#12
Once you use the Global west system as designed you will see a drastic improvement.Effortless power steering with great handling .The sway bar uses a existing hole on frame and drill only one other to mount the c bracket's. I know you don't want a notched radiator, but I would rather sacrifice that then the way it drove before any day.
 

blkblk63ss

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 5
#13
On my sway bar c bracket''s they mention you have to drill one extra hole to get the c bracket bolted. But you have to drill another hole to get this bolt in a blind cavity.They suggest on side of frame (maybe Paul what you are referring to modifying powder frame ) to get this bolt in. I drilled the access hole in the bottom of frame where the c bracket''s bolt up ,so it cover''s this larger hole .Also you will want to put one bolt in c bracket's (existing hole in frame) and move the slotted c bracket's forward to front of car as far as it goes. Then mark rear hole as far forward also. The reason for this on drivers side is that the spacer inside of frame (keep''s frame from collapsing when tightening bolt) for the gear box mounting bolt will interfere with dropping down the bolt out of frame .I had to flatten grind side of bolt head to get the bolt to come down straight.
 
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#15
The plot thickens. As I put in my first post my radiator support has 27 inch horizontal mounting holes. The radiator has 27 1/2 inch mounting centers. I also ordered a 409fan shroud and it also has 27 1/2 inch centers. I thought my radiator support was an original,but maybe it is not. Is there a difference between other years?
 

blkblk63ss

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 5
#16
Ok,,,,, keep this short and sweet . :D I measured my 63 radiator support in front sticking out pointed bolt head to same other side ..... 27 inches exactly. Measured the radiator mounting slot's that I had in 63 before I went to notched radiator and it mounted ok ,no problem( non notch on left lower ) and it measures 27 inches in the very center of the horizontal mounting slot's. So with this the radiator can be shifted side to side about a 1/4 inch from very center of slotted mounting hole. The 27 1/2 measurement is that the center of the horizontal mounting slot on your radiator??? It should be 27 inches.
 
#17
Yes the radiator has a slot in the six mounting holes. I measured from the center of the slots and it is 27 1/2 inches. If I lay the radiator on the support (it is removed from the car), and line up the mounting holes on one side the mounting holes on the other just the edges are visible. The strange thing is the fan shroud is exactly the same. The radiator is from OER and the fan shroud is from Hubbards.
 

blkblk63ss

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Supporting Member 5
#18
Radiator is not right. Can you squeeze the shroud end 's together enough to have 27 inches. My shroud Is 27 in the center of the slot on shroud .
 
#19
I can get the shroud to mount, that is why I never thought that much about it. BUt when I got the radiator the problem surfaced. I sent a e mail to OER on Friday but with the holiday probably be a few days till they reply. When I call them I will armed with a lot of info. THANKS John
 

blkblk63ss

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 5
#20
I can get the shroud to mount, that is why I never thought that much about it. BUt when I got the radiator the problem surfaced. I sent a e mail to OER on Friday but with the holiday probably be a few days till they reply. When I call them I will armed with a lot of info. THANKS John
Alway's glad to help .
 
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