409 reliability problems

[todd]

This is just out of curiousity. My ex father in law used to talk about the days of superstock when the 409's were competing real strong. He said they could never keep their bottoms ends together. Keep in mind he is a die hard ford man. does anyone know if this is true and what were the issues.

Thanks

Todd

 

[oldimpala]

Well..

Even though I wasn't there (By about a decade) I can speak from building other motors the weak spots in the 409....

Put a big rock, on a weak, little string and spin it really fast.... You've got a 409....

Big, heavy rotating mass pounding on old-tech bearings with '60s tech fasteners in the rods, and rods which aren't the best metallurgy. It was as good as it got for the early '60's, and you can build them reasonably strong now, but, he's partially right... All the guys who used to race '09's that I've met have had similar stories.... Spin a bearing, break a rod bolt, shear a piston pin, they're all related to rotational mass, and '60s metals.....

But, all motors from that era have weak spots. My 409 is what I would consider reasonably stout, and is fairly reliable. I just keep it below 5500 because if it's mass. Believe me, W-Motors weren't as bad as the reputations they earned.

And if you really want to get your Ford-head friend, ask him about oiling issues in the Y-blocks and Pre Side-Oiler FE's....

-Andy/Oldimpala

 

[todd]

haha I ll ask him about them and see what he has to say haha.

Todd

 

[Scrappy]

409 reliability

Hi guys, I am new to the forum. I just found the web page the other day when I did a search for 409 stuff. Looks like a great effort by the webmaster. I was fortunate to live through the best of (my opinion) of the muscle car era, and was additionally fortunate to have the money (and lack of responsibility) to own several of the legends. Regarding 409 reliability, I think they were as good as any of that time. I think the biggest problem with the hi-performance 409s was they were put in the hands of dumb owners who did not have a clue how to treat them. Can you imagine what would happen to a 425 after 6 months of cruising the hamburger drive-ins and never adjusting the valves, carbs, timing, changing plugs, etc.. and then standing on something with solid lifters and dual fours all at the same time you were trying to learn how to "power-shift"?? The only trouble I ever had with the "09" was a few broken valve springs. If you want to identify a reliability problem with the 409 cars, it was from the bellhousing back..
Best regards..

 

[bobs409]

And don't forget your talking about engines that are having the snot beat out of them regularly. Sooner or later, no matter what engine it is, something is going to give. The w-motor has very heavy pistons too which didn't help.

I always heard the 348/409 was tough and was good for withstanding high RPM's for extended periods of time. This may have been the reason they were used for boats. ??? In fact, I have a VHS tape with old commercials and films. One of them showed a 1961 Chevy being tested for durability. One part was a 348 running at top speed for over a week!

All I can say is I love mine! Nothing like an occasional rush of 409 torque to remind you that your alive!

 

[SS425HP]

reliability

A few comments about the 409 reliability. I raced mine hard for 2 years, and raced another one a friend had for another year. Never, Never had a problem with an engine. Common sense had to prevail. Keep them tuned, keep the valves adjusted. The valve train was the weakest link I ever saw. Loose lash would wear the rocker. Next thing, you were knocking the keepers out. The 409 was a strong motor. Early 64, I put an Isky cam in mine, and was shifting at 7000. Pulled hard. I sold the motor when I went into the service, and the guy that bought it took it to a speed shop to get it overhauled. The bearings looked new. The balance was as good as any aftermarket balancer could get it. They did refresh the motor, and he went on to race it for another 2 years. The 409 was a good motor

Fred

 

[CDNpontiac409guy]

Thank YOU, Scrappy, Fred, Bob
Hey, they're a good ENGINE too
"The weak link is from the bell housing back".....
DAMN, wish I had said that !
May I add..... I think an important element in THAT weak link was often in the driver's seat !

Yup, I've heard enough of that "bad' stuff. My uncle ( my only older-than-me relative who's into cars ) used to talk against 409's before I even got my first one in 1985.
I'll tell you what.... when we went to Viking Dragway in 1998 and he watched my Belair on stock tires, shifting at 7000-7200, going through the traps at 111 MPH at 6700 RPM, he had an attitude adjustment... and 4 years later, when that engine was STILL running flawlessly, that "new" attitude was cemented.

My "Stocker" is getting a little closer. We'll see. You can bet that I'm going to do my best to ensure ( and not just for me, but for ALL the W block guys who understand that it IS a fine engine ) that this car and engine gives the Ford guys a REALLY bad time....

Long live the power, the torque, the RPM, and the incredible reliability of the first true muscle car engine

 

[dq409]

My racing buddy has a saying,,,,,"most engines loose their bottom ends in the water box.....even though they blow up after the trap !"
If you think about it he`s right ! Over reving the box or by spinning your tires without a good load will destroy your lower end !! Other then the Angels,,,if you know what I mean!!! LOL,,,

"May I add..... I think an important element in THAT weak link was often in the driver's seat ! "
YEH,,,What Aubery said !!! ,,,,,dq

 

[dq409]

DeJaVoo,,,,O well ,,I`m not French?! Was talking to a gear guy today that said this exact same thing !!! " Gee gotta watch them 409`s with that deep a gear (4.56),,,,,,you`ll blow that bottom end right out !! You know they have a weak bottom end don`t cha... Can`t rev`em very high either "
Very nice guy,,,BUT I HAD to put him straight on the `09...
A few stories about Aubrey, and the other racers we know that twist the `09 like I`m gonna !! well not quite like them but I can lie can`t I ? ,,,dq

 

[JIMS409]

Just ask ol' Grumpy Jenkins, Hayden Profitt and Don Nicholson about their thoughts on the subject. The 09's were reliable as hell if treated with respect and fed well. Don't forget: A lot of rotating mass with two-bolt mains!

I've seen 09's in SPU (Stationary Power Units) go all day long... and day after day!

 

[dq409]

Just ask Fred about his days with Hayden Profitt !!,,,dq