409 Swap into a 60 Impala?

[Wilson1]

I think I have finally found a good 64 409 motor. My Impala was a factory 348 PG auto car. It is now a small block 4 speed car. Power assist steering.

What am I going to be faced with swapping in the 409? I know mounts won't be an issue, but what about power steering brackets and pullys? Flywheel clutch and bell housing?

Are there any articles outlining this type of swap anywhere? I have looked but can't find anything.

Thanks in advance

 

[Don Jacks]

Show Cars has the brackets for the engine that you'll need,the flywheel,if it's a 168 tooth,as well as the clutch and belhousing will work on a mild engine.The fan shroud likely was changed,and will have to be changed back to one for the 348.This will be a very straight forward swap.One other thing might also be the clutch linkage bell crank may be different.

 

[Wilson1]

Don, I am assuming when you say brackets you are talking about power steering etc. I do have a 168 tooth flywheel with an 11 inch clutch. I just rebuilt the whole drive line on this thing so all that is new all the way back to the tires. I am assuming I will need new headers. I have shorties on the small block. Thank you for responding... I hope this works out... I have been looking for a long time for a good 409..

 

[Iowa 409 Guy]

Ray will have first hand info also.

 

[Tom Kochtanek]

Depending on what your intentions are, you can run headers (there are a few choices out there) or even the GM 2.5 inch cast iron manifolds with that 409 engine. There are some shorty exhaust manifolds out there as well, but those might be a bit restrictive. Depends on what you're trying to wring from this new engine .

Good luck!

TomK

 

[pvs409]

• Your PS pump should work
• PS hoses fit 60 to 64 so they should be the same
• I assume you have a control valve/hydraulic cylinder hooked to your PS pump
• You need both 409 power steering pump brackets to fit the 409 block( your original 348 PS would have had the same PS pump brackets as the 409).
• Your generator will need 3 - 409/ 348 brackets for PS (the brackets for PS vs standard steering are different)If you still have your original 348 PS brackets they will work on the 409.
• You can use the 348 pulleys you have if they line up for the belts & are dual upper & lower
• The pulleys need to be dual upper and lower pulleys for generator & PS
• 409 pulleys were all deep groove
• A stated the 348 fan shroud is smaller ( in depth) than the small block fan shroud
• You need a Allen head stud and hex nuts to fit tube headers or cast iron headers for one of the 409 PS brackets ( I have pictures). Show cars sell a bolt w/fixed nut like the factory one but I found that it did not fit correctly.
• I have pictures of all these 409/348 PS items ( on & of 62 SS 409 w/ generator - since I just sold a the complete set of 348/409 PS & 409/348 pulleys for a 61 348

Paul

 

[pvs409]

On the crossshaft, the 62 & 63 409 cross shaft has one arm that is longer. 61 clutch linkage is one year only. 62 is one year only clutch linkage. What bell housing do you have and what type of clutch fork ?
The small block cross shaft may work. I don't remember the 1960 clutch linkage and where the adjustment is done( on the upper rod ? Or lower rod? Or both ? If you have enough adjustment you should be able to use the original linkage.
Paul

 

[DonSSDD]

I used original small block 59 clutch linkage and cross shaft on the 409 in my 59. I used a 63 6 cylinder cross shaft/zbar in my 62 with the 409 and the lower linkage as well. The 61 stuuf you are using should all line up fine.
You said you have a 168 tooth flywheel and 11 inch clutch, if that was what you used in the small block setup, it will fit fine with the 409.

Some other issues may come up if the small block you have is modern and depending on what bell housing you are using, what small block do you have and what BH?

 

[Wilson1]

Thanks for jumping in guys. I called the original owner and he said the fan shroud and brackets were all original 348 stuff. The motor is an late 60's 350, two piece rear seal, nothing unusual. I did have and issue with the flywheel when I put a new clutch in it. It had a steel flywheel, and the center cutout was smaller than a cast flywheel so I had to get a clutch disc with the rivits turned around so they would clear the center cut out of the flywheel. The guy that surfaced my flywheel said he sees this all the time, no biggie. Can't answer the bell housing question, all I know it fits the 350 and the Muncie. So the flywheel is an externally balance flywheel. Were the 409's externally balanced also?

I have an altered I drag race so this car is just a fun driver. I am not going to be leaning on it hardly at all. (perhaps only when besides a fat pipe honda at a stop light). This motor is suppose to be a complete QB from a 64. Pictures on the way. If it is close to being real I will be on my way to get it. The car has shorties on it now, so I would be happy with a new set to fit the 409.

I wouldn't be doing this at all except at the ripe old age of 74 I still remember as a young man seeing my first 59 with a 348 tri power and then later a 63 409 at the drag strip the WOW factor was off the chart for me. Never lost that feeling. Let's face it, a good 383 will make more HP than a 425/425 dual quad 409, but it is still just a small block and it will never have the WOW factor of opening the hood and seeing a 409. Maybe I am just an old man lost in the past but what the heck, it is fun for me.

 

[skipxt4]

That's why, were here, Wilson. All of us, share your affliction.

 

[Don Jacks]

If that 350 is a two piece seal engine,then it's internally balanced.All factory 348's and 409's are internally balanced,so the parts should swap over.Go to the long tube headers,such as Doug Thorley for best results,"block huggers" suck!

 

[pvs409]

Is the bell housing a ribbed aluminum housing or a cast iron smooth exterior bell housing or a all aluminum bell housing
that looks the same as the smooth cast iron one ?
Cast or aluminum smooth bell housing that looks like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/331964531926?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
This type should be original style.
Paul

 

[Wilson1]

Finally information on this motor. It is a 64 block number, but 690 heads. It also has a flex plate. It is suppose to be a 425 motor. I thought all 64 425 motors came with 583 heads and were standard shift.. ?? So at one time the heads must have been replaced? Or did early 64's come with 690 heads. Is that a correct assumption? It also was presented as a ready to run motor... I doubt it since the spark plugs have been out of the motor and it has been sitting on a stand for 15 years.

Not that this is a deal killer, just a price tolerance adjustment on my part. Are my assumptions correct regarding the information I have received? It does kinda put it in a Pig N A Poke category in my mind.