59 Impala - 3 speed to 4 or 5 speed

[real61ss]

There must be a difference between the shifter mounting of the T 10 and Super T 10? When I first got the 62 SS 409 that Robert Street has now it had a Super T 10 with a Hurst shifter and I could never keep a shifter boot in it. Put several new reproduction boots in it and the boot would tear with in a couple of days. I got a T 10 and an original shifter for it and never had another problem.

 

[DonSSDD]

Tommy, you are correct, the shifter mounts about 1/2 inch farther back. The super T10 is a tiny bit longer.

 

[real61ss]

Tommy, you are correct, the shifter mounts about 1/2 inch farther back. The super T10 is a tiny bit longer.

Ah, that's why the shifter kept ripping the boot

 

[ozzie7]

So I have decided to go with the Muncie M20.
I've located a couple that come with shifters.
One has a Hurst Competition Plus shifter... the other a Hurst Indy shifter.
I'm trying to determine which is best for the 59 Impala.

It looks like the Indy shifter mounts higher on the tranny than the Comp Plus.

Anyone have any experience using these shifters?
Which one would fit better/work better on the 59?

 

[Dick MacKenzie]

I have the Competition Plus in my 62. Nice solid clean shifts! Never used the Hurst Indy but always respected Hurst's reputation for quality products. Both allow you to change the shift handle so you can get a stock appearing "pencil" handle if you want to appear original.

 

[Don Jacks]

The INDY will be fine for a cruiser.The main difference in the two is that the INDY dosen't have the stop bolts in the shifter body like the Competetion Plus does.Thse bolts were there to keep the forces from "power shifting" to be transmitted into the transmission.

 

[pvs409]

Having converted 6 - 1961 & 1962's and a 1957 from a BW to a Muncie I have the following comments.

1. A muncie with a 2:52 low gear is best for rear end ratios like 3:36 or 3:55 or even 3:70 as I noted earlier in this post.
2. A 2:20 low gear close ratio Muncie does not work good in first gear for street driving
3. The competition plus is a much better shifter for mounting location, stops for the shifter as Don noted, and it shifts really nice.
4. The shifter I have found that fits without sticking too far above the floor pan is a Hurst shifter body 391-7308 and a installation kit # 373-3163 for the shifter body . The installation kit 373-3163 has a Hurst shifter mounting bracket #1957773 (this mount places the shifter much lower than the ones in your pictures) The installation kit fits Muncie transmissions from 1963 to 1968 with studs for shifter arms.
5. If you use a shifter that sticks to far above the floor you will need a shifter boot like this large Hurst boot to cover the hole in teh floor and clear the shifter body (or one that is even larger ) --- https://www.summitracing.com/parts/huu-1147494
6. You can use on your 59 --a 1961, 62 and 63 Chevy round boot when the shifter does not sit too high like this one
7. As was noted by Dick the bolt on handle Hurst shifters can be converted to a factory style round 59 Chevy style 4 speed handle. A high shifter mount on the transmission won't allow a round boot to fit the round handle correctly -the round handle boot /boot ring screws directly to the floor pan or floor cover and when the shifter body is too high the round boot will hit shifter body
8. Here is the round boot I noted in # 7 -- https://www.lategreatchevy.com/full-size-chevy-bench-seat-shift-boot-4-speed-1960-1964.html
9. the 59 Chevy factory round 4 speed boot that is sold reproduction has a round hole not centered on the shifter handle.
10. See the pictures for a competition plus shifter on a 62 Chevy floor pan (59 and 60 have similar floor pans) The black tunnel cover is for 61 to 63. There is one similar to it for a 1960 Chevy https://www.lategreatchevy.com/full-size-chevy-tunnel-cover-extension-4-speed-transmission-1960.html . I do not see a 4 speed tunnel cover for a 1959 Chevy. I had a 1959 Chevy 348 convertible years ago with a factory 4 speed and a round floor boot.
11. Note in the picture how low the competition plus shifter sits compared to the floor pan(this shifter is the one I noted above.)
12. If there is no concern for high the shifter body sits compared to the floor pan, all my comments on boots and shifter location would not be important.

Paul

 

[ozzie7]

Thanks guys.... and for the part numbers Paul.
Fitting without too much tunnel modification is my goal.
Can the Indy shifter be mounted to the 1957773 bracket?
Looks like it could to me.

Paul... Does that 62 in the pic have the 1957773 mounting bracket?

Here's what I'm dealing with now.
It's a factory 3 speed (no OD) on the tree converted to the floor by previous owner.

 

[DonSSDD]

The 59 has no factory tunnel extension, maybe you could modify one for a 62, like Paul has? Allows the shifter boot to sit flat. Without that 62 part, it sits side saddle.

Ask 59K9 what shifter he has, he has a 69 M20.
http://www.348-409.com/forum/threads/59-el-camino-gets-a-new-lease-on-life.38243/

 

[59K9]

I was gonna say, boy that sure do look like my car...my shifter is the hurst competition plus, it shifts as nice or nicer than any of my other cars, be sure to use the steel linkage bearings...they make it nice and tight...just ordered 3:55 gears and a posi, looking forward to having fun

 

[pvs409]

Yes the 62 has that 1957773 transmission mount on it.

The problem with using a different mount for the Indy shifter is that the arms and rods won't fit the transmission if the shifter itself is moved down. The transmission mount is matched to the mount 1957773. All Hurst arms and rods are numbered and bent to fit and the right length, shape for the type of transmission as a kit.

The transmission mount (under the 3 speed )for the frame in your pictures moves to the bottom holes of the frame mounts for all BW & Muncie 4 speed transmissions.
Don makes a good suggestion on the boot sitting flat vs side saddle. The black floor cover should also cover any holes in your floor from your current shifter. You would have to test fit a new black floor cover to your floor shape.

59 K9 is correct on using the steel linkage washers(vs plastic ones that come in most new shifters). They are sold as a kit with 6 steel washers and wire clips (Pit Pack) -https://www.summitracing.com/parts/huu-3327302?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-shopping-_-srese1-_-hurst-shifters&gclid=Cj0KCQiAhrbTBRCFARIsACY7MW13rpw_06-TV6k-zBqgRvi4Kpq5YYocqy65_FsEL4ctjnxg1_zrxt8aAoRJEALw_wcB

I will post some pictures of my competition plus shifter, rods and arms.
Paul

 

[pvs409]

Below are pictures of the Hurst Competition plus 4 speed shifter in my 62 Chevy Impala Hardtop 327/300 HP. When you look up the shifter, its actually the Hurst shifter listed for a 63/64 Chevy -1963 was the first year of Muncies).The installation kit (rods/arms/mounting plate/bolt kit) also fits 64 to 67 Chevelle & 64 Chevy II Novas with Muncie's.

The 4 speed shifter itself (391-7308) fits those years + it fits 1960 to 1963 BW 4 speeds with a different installation kit.

I have all the rod numbers, arm numbers(if you need them) from the Hurst installation kit(373-3163) and the mounting plates (all of them are #1957773)

• Note the lower mounting holes on the frame bracket and the black rubber/ steel transmission mount on the bottom of the 4 speed tailshaft. This shifter fits Muncie transmissions with studs on the side cover. Bolt on arms(no studs on the side cover) started with 1969 Muncies.
• Note the location of the shifter mounting bracket on the transmission -front to back - and how low the bottom of the mounting plate is on the transmission tailshaft.
• Note that the reverse round rod and the 3rd/4 gear round rods go under the reverse stud on the transmission. The Indy shifter and the competition plus shifter in your pictures have straight rods.

• I have a back up light switch mounted to the transmission and a small rod to the reverse rod on the shifter
• I have other Muncie 4 speeds that have the speedometer attachment on the passenger side of the transmission this one is on the drivers side like the original BW 4 speed. If the cable is on the passenger side of the Muncie you need a speedometer cable that is about 83 inches long.
• The black floor surrounded by red oxide paint is the tunnel cover to fit the shifter and shifter boot.
• It looks like you have nice carpet and hopefully the shifter boot and mounting plate can cover the existing hole, Your current hole in the carpet could be too far to the front of the car for a 4 speed shifter.

Paul

 

[Geary Trussell]

Its is not necessary to cut a big hole in your floorboard to fit a four speed shifter. I never understood why GM cut such a big hole in the floorboard for the shifter. I cut a 3.25x2.5 slot in my' 59 floorboard and there is good shifter clearance. I used a' 60 boot and ring which works good. If you are restoring your car to original specs then a big hole is what you otherwise its is not necessary.

 

[ozzie7]

I guess GM felt they needed a more level area for the boot to mount on.

And Paul...... thanks a million for the pictures.
It makes a world of difference to see how it all comes together.
I think the picture I have at the top that says "Hurst Competition Plus" is the one I'll go with.

 

[DonSSDD]

I cut the hole for mine to a minimum size, just raise the transmission up and rill a hole where it hits the floor. Then enlarge the hole to suit your shifter.

 

[ozzie7]

Made the plunge.... I Picked up the 68 M20 with a like new Hurst competition plus and rod kit... and even an 84" speedo cable, a transmission mount and the 27 spline yoke.
I'll Probably just get the front drive shaft from show cars Front Drive shaft

And the shifter boot Paul listed from Hurst Shifter Boot and Plate Kits 1147494
Also the hardened steel bushing kit Shift rod bushing kit to replace the plastic ones.

So the big question will I be able to bolt the Muncie to the bell housing that the current 3 speed (No OD) mounts to?
What about the clutch arm and so forth?
Is the clutch disc diameter the same for the 3 and 4 speeds?
Anything else I need?

 

[pvs409]

3 speed or 4 speed bolt to the same bell housings. I think you have a 552 or 553 bell housing that you that I see in your pictures. (the number I listed are the last 3 numbers on the bell housing part number that you see after you remove the 3 speed). Those are original part numbers for the stock cast or aluminum bell housings.
Your clutch linkage should be the same that you have with the 3 speed.

You probably have a 10 1/2 inch clutch which is the stock size for 62 and I think 59's. Use of a 11 inch clutch requires a flywheel that will has a mounting holes to fit that size clutch.
Nothing wrong with a 10 1/2 inch clutch unless your clutch needs replacement.

Your driveshaft should be balanced with a new front and your existing rear driveshaft section to eliminate any possible vibration when you change the front section to fit the shorter 4 speed length you need.(25 1/2 inches as I recall.)
I also install a billet driveshaft support that is sold by Inland Empire. I think the ones I bought from Eclkers come from Inland Empire (they have the quality billet carrier). This link:
https://www.lategreatchevy.com/full-size-chevy-driveshaft-support-bearing-heavy-duty-1958-1964.html
or Show Cars biller carrier
https://www.show-cars.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=6668

Paul

 

[poison ivy]

I have and installed a Muncie in my 58 Bel, IV is the way i go.

 

[ozzie7]

3 speed or 4 speed bolt to the same bell housings. I think you have a 552 or 553 bell housing that you that I see in your pictures. (the number I listed are the last 3 numbers on the bell housing part number that you see after you remove the 3 speed). Those are original part numbers for the stock cast or aluminum bell housings.
Your clutch linkage should be the same that you have with the 3 speed.

You probably have a 10 1/2 inch clutch which is the stock size for 62 and I think 59's. Use of a 11 inch clutch requires a flywheel that will has a mounting holes to fit that size clutch.
Nothing wrong with a 10 1/2 inch clutch unless your clutch needs replacement.

Your driveshaft should be balanced with a new front and your existing rear driveshaft section to eliminate any possible vibration when you change the front section to fit the shorter 4 speed length you need.(25 1/2 inches as I recall.)
I also install a billet driveshaft support that is sold by Inland Empire. I think the ones I bought from Eclkers come from Inland Empire (they have the quality billet carrier). This link:
https://www.lategreatchevy.com/full-size-chevy-driveshaft-support-bearing-heavy-duty-1958-1964.html
or Show Cars biller carrier
https://www.show-cars.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=6668

Paul

Thanks again Paul for the info and links.... I'm very grateful you can share your knowledge.

So I started into this conversion... got the M20 with the hurst comp plus, linkage, yoke, speedo cable, mount etc.
Thought I could use some parts from the John Farr collection I bought awhile back.
Here's a few pics... and I'm hoping someone can help me ID the after market pressure plate.

I thought I had a new flywheel but it turns out it's for a 55-56 corvette, bel-air, etc. V8.
And I'm thinking the pressure plate is for it.

Anybody know what this pressure plate will work on?

 

[Red 409 63 impala]

If you plan to drive your car the 5 speed is a no brainer. It is approx a $ 3000 price for everything new. In my 63 impala 409 I left the 4 speed because I do not drive it that much. I also have a 65 vet. 327-300 hp that I have had over 30 yrs, that I converted to a tremac 5 speed. I also changed the rear to a 3:08 posi. The tremec has a launch 1 st gear so i can get away the 3:08 rear. I cruise at 70 mph and the engine runs at about 1800-1900 rpms. A member in our club has the identical impala as mine except it is a 350 with dual quads. He says the conversion was the best mod he has done. His only problem was he had to go to the heavy duty driveshaft support.