65 Impala 409 Question.

[droptop62]

I think we all know that there were not very many 65 impalas made with the 409 due to the 409 being only available in the early to mid year cars before it was no longer available ultimately being replaced by the 396ci big block motor being introduced in 1965.
Now in person and in print I have seen quite a few 409 65 impala hardtops.
My question is this: Were there any 65 impala 409 convertibles produced, and if so,....
does anybody know how many?

And now that I think about it, I know there were a handful of 396, 425HP cars built.
Were any of the 425HP 396 impalas in 65 available as a convertible?

 

[SS425HP]

396/425

I think the 425 HP 396 could be had in any 65 car. I had a 425/396 Hard top. Don't remember there being any restrictions as to what body style you could get it in.

 

[Rockfish39]

Statistics and laws of averages

Were there any 65 impala 409 convertibles produced, and if so, does anybody know how many?

Droptop,

116 Impala Convertibles (86 L-33 and 30 L-31)
55 Super Sport Convertibles (40 L-33 and 15 L-31)
+/- .2e



Personally, I've always wanted to see an original L-31 Super Sport convertible. Never have seen one though...

One of only 15 or so made??? Bet that a real one would fetch big bucks at Barrett-Jackson

Rock

 

[MK IISS]

'65 409

Not a L31 or conv. but...

http://www.55-57chevys.com/coccc/articles/646/65asty1.html

 

[Rockfish39]

Richard,
I have that issue in my collection... read that article many times

Rock

 

[MK IISS]

I'm confused on how the number of '65 409 engines in a specific '65 Chevy body style such as a conv. or series such as a Biscayne, BelAir, Impala or SS can be determined. I have always been told that Chevrolet did not keep this kind of record.

For example: We know how many 1961 Impala Super Sports were built. We also know how many 1961 409 engines were installed in '61 cars. However I thought there was no way to determine how many '61 409 engines were installed in the '61 SS or any other specific '61 series/model/body style. In addition there was no way to determine how many 348/305, 348/340 and 348/350 engines were installed in the '61 SS or another specific '61 such as a BelAir Spt Cp.

So my question is: If the '65 info is available is it also available for other years and is there a way to to determine the '61 info?.

 

[Rockfish39]

Statistics and laws of averages

Richard,
Those records aren't available. The numbers are extracted mathematically. That's why I mentioned that there is a +/- 20% margin for error.

2828 (2086+742) total 409 production is a known quantity

1,409,729 full sized Chevrolet cars built in '65 (all "B" models) is also a known quantity

57,903 Impala Convertibles
27,443 Super Sport V-8 Convertibles so, we know that too...

Assuming a standard normal distribution model, you get the numbers that I provided in my earlier post

Of course, without the actual historical records from Chevrolet, the "real" numbers are anybody's guess. But, even without those records, the numbers I provided will be very close to acurate.

It's all mathematics...

Rock

 

[MK IISS]

Rock: Thanks for your reply.

 

[Z-11Guy]

65 drop top

Yes there were a few 409 convertibles built in '65. There is a really good photo of one on impalaSS427.com and another one in an older collectible automobile magazine that had an issue of the Chevy 409's '61-'65. I believe Motor Trend magazine Tested a '65 Impala SS convertible in fall of '64 and 0-60'd the car in under 7 seconds. Also remember in the sales brochure of the '65's the 409 was the only listed top engine in 340 and 400 HP form due to 396 arrived in Feb of '65. This gave 5 months (sep '64 to jan 65) of production of full size Chevys where the 409 was the top engine available. Hope this helps.

 

[Rockfish39]

What's wrong with the picture ??

http://www.impalass427.com/72res/65409.jpg

http://www.impalass427.com/72res/65_ss_front_pass_side.jpg


Z-11,
The GREAT Tommy Nolen is our resident expert on '61s hands-down
And far be it from me to ever compare myself to him. But, I would put myself in the category of knowing something about the '65 '"W" cars. The photos on the SS427.com website are interesting to look at, and thanks for sharing that!!!

However, it is more than likely that both of those '65 convertibles are clone creations as both are incorrectly put together. Especially the black one. I could point out about four obvious give-aways on it. And, although the literature suggests that '65 "W" production went from Sept '64 to Jan '65... The were actually produced from Monday August 3, 1964 to Friday March 26 1965.

Rock

 

[real61ss]

Whoa....how'd I get in this? me great??? must be some kinda joke

 

[68-biscayne]

pictures of the '65 409 cars on the ss427 website

I don't know what to look for under the hoods of the 2 '65 Impalas on the ss427 website as far as what is correct and what isn't. Can someone shed some light on the subject?

 

[Rockfish39]

The more obvious stuff...

To answer your question,

I'm going to point out some of the more obvious things that I see in these photos
I hope that nobody takes this as bashing. Not trying to do that, just trying to answer '68's question.

Black '65

1) Air cleaner belongs on a L-31 and is wrong for a 340hp application
2) valve covers are wrong (eBay, no bowtie stamp, specials)
3) radiator is wrong
4) upper hose configuration is incorrect
3) fan shroud is wrong
4) no ballast resistor on the firewall
5) carb is wrong

Red '65

1) Air cleaner is not only wrong, it isnt chrome plated either
2) valve covers are chrome plated truck units
3) radiator is wrong
4) upper hose configuration is incorrect
3) fan shroud is missing
4) no ballast resistor on the firewall
5) carb, fuel line and fuel filter arrangement is wrong

Rock

 

[68-biscayne]

65 409 info

Thanks for the insight. What items are 65 only? Other than the oil pan, what else would be scarce to locate? Are the exhaust manifolds the same as earlier ones? Pulleys? Thanks again.

 

[Rockfish39]

Everything else you would need is scarce...

Thanks for the insight. What items are 65 only? Other than the oil pan, what else would be scarce to locate? Are the exhaust manifolds the same as earlier ones? Pulleys? Thanks again.

Exhaust manifolds, are just one good example... 161 and 162 exhaust manifolds are 1965 ONLY pieces, hard to find and are EXPENSIVE in good shape.
And to answer your question earlier 409 manifolds won't interchange on a '65 car
Earlier manifolds won't clear the steering gear on the left side.

Good luck on your project...

Rock

 

[Dan Hunt]

65 cars

Rockfish
I have a friend with a 65 SS convert.325/396 powerglide mid. Jan.65.
Some documents say the turbo 400 came out Feb in full sized cars.
Did any of the 409 cars after Jan.come with a 400?
There is a 65 SS convert 400 hp 409 here in the Calgary area that doesn't have the original engine.The guy that has the motor wants the car and the guy that has the car wants the motor.Could go on for years.
Dan

 

[Rockfish39]

Rockfish
I have a friend with a 65 SS convert.325/396 powerglide mid. Jan.65.
Some documents say the turbo 400 came out Feb in full sized cars.
Did any of the 409 cars after Jan.come with a 400?
There is a 65 SS convert 400 hp 409 here in the Calgary area that doesn't have the original engine.The guy that has the motor wants the car and the guy that has the car wants the motor.Could go on for years.
Dan

Dan,
To answer your questions,

1) The 396 MK-IV didn't make final release production until
Monday February 15, 1965 at Tonawanda. If it is a JAN '65 car, the 396 in your buddies convertible may have been an engine swap at some point over the last 40 years. Would love to know the numbers and codes off of that 396 that is installed in it...

2) No 409 car came equipped with TH-400 trans from the factory. Automatic "W" cars came with H-D powerglide (larger case, and all of them made at GM powertrain:TOLEDO)

2a) 1965 "W" cars could be also had with Muncie M-20 (340 hp) and Muncie M-21 (400 hp) 4-speed transmissions.

Rock

 

[MK IISS]

Rock: When I ordered my '63 409/425, both hi-perf 409s were available with either the M-20 or M-21. My question is: This choice was no longer available in 1965?

 

[Rockfish39]

Recommended selections

Rock: When I ordered my '63 409/425, both hi-perf 409s were available with either the M-20 or M-21. My question is: This choice was no longer available in 1965?

Richard,
The M-20 was the recommended trans for 340 horse, and M-21 was recommended for 400 horse. It is very likely that a number of 340 horse cars were ordered with M-21 and vise-versa... Happened all the time.

A little more information is listed below

M-22 however, WAS NOT released until the end of April '65, and only 55 or so units were made. All of them for 396/425 Corvettes :eek:

No 409 came with TH400 or M-22 trans.

Rock :

 

[david montanbeau]

https://www.mecum.com/lots/WA0615-215270/1965-chevrolet-impala-ss/