Has anyone run Algon or Hilborn mechanical fuel injection on the street? I'm going to try 
Algon
- Thread starter impalamike.com
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Skip FIx
Well Known Member
I would think about having Kinsler or Hilborn convert it to electronic vs mechanical. They add an idle air door to help as well as the new electronics you have ALOT more adjustment on the fuel curve.
Might add some longer tubes as that length can help add bottom end torque also.
If you want really good performance be sure and check it on a flowbench with your heads. My early Pontiac Hilborn unit really drops the flow on a high flowing head.
Might add some longer tubes as that length can help add bottom end torque also.
If you want really good performance be sure and check it on a flowbench with your heads. My early Pontiac Hilborn unit really drops the flow on a high flowing head.
Do you fellows know what company convers these? Any one know the cost?
Gravy 62
Active Member
I had considered using my Hilborn on my BBC as mechanical when I swap it on to the motor. I called Kinsler; the guy there told me why mechanical is not a good idea on the street. Too hard to tune to run right in mid range, and when you get it right for mid range it is too lean on the upper end. The fuel systems are made for two things 1) Idle 2) FULL Throttle-Racing. They sell fuel bypasses to help trim the fuel curve a little more but it is nothing like an EFI system can.
As far as converting:
Hilborn won't convert one over but they will sell you one already set up as EFI (not cheap).
BDS will convert a manifold over but they want 1-arm and 2-legs to do it (BIG$).
Kinsler can do it as well, not cheap but they seem to know what they are doing and they will give you the ups and downs before you jump in.
If you are a Do It Your-selfer and have some technical knowledge there are some ways to DIY. First search Google terms DIY EFI a ton of info from people who have built their own systems.
Then also go to http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html they sell assemble yourself ECMs as a kit or you can buy one of them already assembled on Ebay.
I am going to go with a Megasquirt ECM, used low mileage take out injectors from a LS2, tig weld injector bungs in the manifold, and build my own wire harness. I should have less than $1000 in the EFI conversion (not including the manifold).
Hope I helped, I have been down this road already.
Gravy
As far as converting:
Hilborn won't convert one over but they will sell you one already set up as EFI (not cheap).
BDS will convert a manifold over but they want 1-arm and 2-legs to do it (BIG$).
Kinsler can do it as well, not cheap but they seem to know what they are doing and they will give you the ups and downs before you jump in.
If you are a Do It Your-selfer and have some technical knowledge there are some ways to DIY. First search Google terms DIY EFI a ton of info from people who have built their own systems.
Then also go to http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html they sell assemble yourself ECMs as a kit or you can buy one of them already assembled on Ebay.
I am going to go with a Megasquirt ECM, used low mileage take out injectors from a LS2, tig weld injector bungs in the manifold, and build my own wire harness. I should have less than $1000 in the EFI conversion (not including the manifold).
Hope I helped, I have been down this road already.
Gravy
Skip FIx
Well Known Member
When I talked to Hilborn 2 years ago they were doing some.
There are some smalleer EFI companies that can do the work, welding in bungs. Fuel rails. Idleair compensators for every cylinder.
Most processors will run whatever hardware, you just have to tlearn the software. The FAST and ACCEL seem to be the main ones out there, Holley has oen also. Edelbrock has some SBC, BBC ones but they are more limited.
There are some smalleer EFI companies that can do the work, welding in bungs. Fuel rails. Idleair compensators for every cylinder.
Most processors will run whatever hardware, you just have to tlearn the software. The FAST and ACCEL seem to be the main ones out there, Holley has oen also. Edelbrock has some SBC, BBC ones but they are more limited.
IgnitionMan
Banned
I have two friends in So. Cal., both with Wiillys car and truck, that I did the Hilborn two and four porters on their blowers. BOTH are stteet cars, both have fully active blowers, and both Hilborns are NOT converted to EFI, but are mechanical.
One of the guys, Ted Radoumas, drives his two port, blown old race truck converted for the street, from Norwalk to Pomona Raceway, 27 miles each way, on the freeways, for NHRA cruise nights. Both these injectors fire up from the block starters, without issues, idle just fine and run like the dickens.
The keys are to get the barral valve to not leak down like it does for a drag application, so...we teflon'd the insides of the barrel valves, did a precision true and finish on the barrel, and cut the port in it from a circle to a heart shape for better idle/low speed fuel control. The other thing I did was to make for each barrel valve, an anti-drainback valve for each, that doesn't allow the fuel to revert back down the feed line, but stop at the inlet to the valve (fuel in these systems finds its top level when the flow is stopped). This stops the need to crank the daylights out of the enigne to refill fuel into the line into the barrel valve. Both these engines, both small blocks, one a 301, the other a 406, fire up within two crankshaft full revolutions cold or hot. The 301 uses a 6/71, the 406 has the 8/71, both are automatics.
Both of these engines are running gutted Vertex mags, with an MSD trigger pickup inside, and MDS BTM (boost timing master) boxes.
Anyone want pics of the truck with the two porter, let me know via this e/mail address, and I'll send 'em. sparkman451@earthlink.net These pics are from the Uptown Whittier Cruise three years ago, Ted drove the truck there and back to his home, on city streets, 10 miles each way, no problems.
One of the guys, Ted Radoumas, drives his two port, blown old race truck converted for the street, from Norwalk to Pomona Raceway, 27 miles each way, on the freeways, for NHRA cruise nights. Both these injectors fire up from the block starters, without issues, idle just fine and run like the dickens.
The keys are to get the barral valve to not leak down like it does for a drag application, so...we teflon'd the insides of the barrel valves, did a precision true and finish on the barrel, and cut the port in it from a circle to a heart shape for better idle/low speed fuel control. The other thing I did was to make for each barrel valve, an anti-drainback valve for each, that doesn't allow the fuel to revert back down the feed line, but stop at the inlet to the valve (fuel in these systems finds its top level when the flow is stopped). This stops the need to crank the daylights out of the enigne to refill fuel into the line into the barrel valve. Both these engines, both small blocks, one a 301, the other a 406, fire up within two crankshaft full revolutions cold or hot. The 301 uses a 6/71, the 406 has the 8/71, both are automatics.
Both of these engines are running gutted Vertex mags, with an MSD trigger pickup inside, and MDS BTM (boost timing master) boxes.
Anyone want pics of the truck with the two porter, let me know via this e/mail address, and I'll send 'em. sparkman451@earthlink.net These pics are from the Uptown Whittier Cruise three years ago, Ted drove the truck there and back to his home, on city streets, 10 miles each way, no problems.
That you follows so much for all of this information.
Ignitionman: Please post pics on this thread! Those sounds like pretty hot cars!
IgnitionMan
Banned
I have no idea as to posting pics, send me a real e/mail, not one from this site, and I'll send them to you, and you can post them.
My e/mail address is above, and disregard the spam blocker voodoo, when I respond to your e/maill, it stops the spam blocker. Today's known spam is right at 1309 so far.
My e/mail address is above, and disregard the spam blocker voodoo, when I respond to your e/maill, it stops the spam blocker. Today's known spam is right at 1309 so far.
IgnitionMan
Banned
Models, 10 pics for the board, will send later this morning.
Fuel injection, either EFI or mechanical, just ain't as hard to get right as some may profess it is. I learned my mechanical injection from Bruce and Dave Crower, on my nitro car many years ago. The EFI came from Bill Howell teachings, the guy who figured out EFI for GM.
This particular engine in the pics uses two nozzles per port, 4 overall, aerated, .104 oriface per nozzle, and no idle air bypass.
Fuel injection, either EFI or mechanical, just ain't as hard to get right as some may profess it is. I learned my mechanical injection from Bruce and Dave Crower, on my nitro car many years ago. The EFI came from Bill Howell teachings, the guy who figured out EFI for GM.
This particular engine in the pics uses two nozzles per port, 4 overall, aerated, .104 oriface per nozzle, and no idle air bypass.
from Ignitionman
To the board, yes, this IS a live two port Hilborn, on a 6/71, on the
street, engine is a 301 Chevy, TH400, 9 inch Ford rear end. Yes, this
vehicle used to be a race only truck, but has been on the street for over 7
years, daily driven. It drove 10 miles each way, on city streets, to get to
this show.
Yes, I also do the Hilborn stack big block injector on the Waldon Altered
sitting next to the Willys. That is a strip only gasoline car.
More pics to come
To the board, yes, this IS a live two port Hilborn, on a 6/71, on the
street, engine is a 301 Chevy, TH400, 9 inch Ford rear end. Yes, this
vehicle used to be a race only truck, but has been on the street for over 7
years, daily driven. It drove 10 miles each way, on city streets, to get to
this show.
Yes, I also do the Hilborn stack big block injector on the Waldon Altered
sitting next to the Willys. That is a strip only gasoline car.
More pics to come
Attachments
IgnitionMan
Banned
Thanks for posting these pics, Models. One day, I'll have to learn how to do that.
Pictures and fuel injection
See, Dave, you can set up a fuel injection unit like no one else, but can't post a picture. Everyone has something he is good at, and something he just can't do. I have a good friend that is a CPA. I can build an engine or put a 4 speed together, but no way can I sit down and do taxes. He doesn't understand why I can't do taxes and can put an engine together. He and his brother had a service station, and Glenn couldn't change oil to save his butt. But, he could do the books and made them a lot of money putting it here and there.
Those fuel units look really good. Never messed with one much myself, but when we had the fuel car, I remember Dan sitting and working on the barrel valve and massaging it like a baby. The whole key to the fuel system. File a little here, polish a little there. Still over my head.
You keep doing the fuel injection units, and we will post pictures for you
I do admire you for what you do and know.
See, Dave, you can set up a fuel injection unit like no one else, but can't post a picture. Everyone has something he is good at, and something he just can't do. I have a good friend that is a CPA. I can build an engine or put a 4 speed together, but no way can I sit down and do taxes. He doesn't understand why I can't do taxes and can put an engine together. He and his brother had a service station, and Glenn couldn't change oil to save his butt. But, he could do the books and made them a lot of money putting it here and there.
Those fuel units look really good. Never messed with one much myself, but when we had the fuel car, I remember Dan sitting and working on the barrel valve and massaging it like a baby. The whole key to the fuel system. File a little here, polish a little there. Still over my head.
You keep doing the fuel injection units, and we will post pictures for you
I do admire you for what you do and know.
Good point 1963 SS Impala 409/425! Please post some info/pics on the beautiful '63!!!