Clone cars?

El Rat

Well Known Member
Hi gents:
There was 61 SS (?) for sale near me. The seller wanted 195k for a real deal SS 61. I walked over and (car show) scoped it out. Well I didn’t see anything obvious to my novice eyes but it didn’t “feel” right. Later a friend told me that the car was built up from a 61 that sat in a pasture. The owner had a local restoration company build it from new sheet metal. Plus normal rotisserie build.
How would a gent hired to authenticate this car verify its pedigree? What would be some of the places/parts to look at? Thanks
 

Junky

Well Known Member
Do you have some pictures of the suspect car? Other than that, you are asking the experts to give up their secrets of how to detect a fraudulent Super Sport. This information in the hands of the unscrupulous fraudster, will use that information to build a better fraudulent vehicle. Without pictures, the experts here could at least tell you if they recognize the car, or if it is real or not, without giving up their knowledge.
 

El Rat

Well Known Member
The question was open ended. I asked for my general knowledge. The car in question had 2/4s. I told one of the owners minions that I thought the 2/4 manifold (in 61) was over the counter particularly since I saw one of the first delivered in Texas and it had one carb.
 

Tom Kochtanek

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 12
The heads on the original 1961 SS cars that sported 409s that had the "623" blocks were the "586" variety (think I got that right) and the intake would have been a single 4 barrel with small ports. The "881" 2x4 intake was designed for the next generation of (big port) 690 heads. So if you had a true 1961 SS car, you either had a 348 with one of several intakes or a 409 with that single 4 barrel carb on that 586 small port head.
 

rstreet

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 17
The heads on the original 1961 SS cars that sported 409s that had the "623" blocks were the "586" variety (think I got that right) and the intake would have been a single 4 barrel with small ports. The "881" 2x4 intake was designed for the next generation of (big port) 690 heads. So if you had a true 1961 SS car, you either had a 348 with one of several intakes or a 409 with that single 4 barrel carb on that 586 small port head.

tom you are being very generous :rolleyes
Robert
 

IMBVSUR?

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
The heads on the original 1961 SS cars that sported 409s that had the "623" blocks were the "586" variety (think I got that right) and the intake would have been a single 4 barrel with small ports. The "881" 2x4 intake was designed for the next generation of (big port) 690 heads. So if you had a true 1961 SS car, you either had a 348 with one of several intakes or a 409 with that single 4 barrel carb on that 586 small port head.

Like these? Been for sale for quite some time now.

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/pts/d/1961-impala-heads/7091250046.html
 

oldskydog

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 10
Those are not off a 61 409. Dates are L-20-61 which would be too late for 61 production and they look more like 350hp 348 heads. Pushrod holes dont look big enough for 3/8 pushrods and the valve guide bosses/spring seats look more like the dual springs that would be used on the 1147 or 586 348 application.
 

IMBVSUR?

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
I honestly would not know. Maybe that's why they have been for sale for so long. I thought a couple of years ago they were $4500, however I could be thinking of something else.
 

Tom Kochtanek

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 12
Clyde Waldo had a set of those 586s, and he and I were gonna trade a set of 690s for those 586s, so I'd put their value at $1200.

Pat, what were the dates on those heads, do you have them handy? I thought they might have been January 61 castings?

So those "L-20-61" 586s might have been on a 350 horse 348 in that 1961 convertible? I didn't know 586s were on anything other than the first year 409 (623 block castings). I think 1147s were only on 348s?
 
Top