clutch linkage, '60 Impala

[Dougs60Chevy]

Does anyone have good pictures of clutch linkage for a '60 Impala with 348? Is it the same as small block linkage?

Here's what I've got, pretty sure none of it is correct for this car.

 

[DonSSDD]

What is that off, or you don't know? Do you have the fork?

The 59 and 60 are the same, I think a full matching set off a 59 or 60 283-348-6 cyl will fit. The geometry will be the same.

But if you have a 348 z bar and the other parts are from a 283 or a 6, you may have a problem. Was your car a 3 on the tree or an automatic? There is an "over center" spring up under the dash in the manual car that is not there in an automatic.

Don

 

[pvs409]

Here is picture of a 1960 Chevy clutch/brake pedals and the clutch linkage. removed from a 1960 Chevy
Looks like the same linkage that you have. From my experience the linkage for all 1960 to 1964's are all the same for all engines except the "lower rod and only the lower rod" has some differences on the various years for the 348 and 409 motors

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1960-60-che...ash=item3d36f95708:g:DKIAAOSw9uFW8xx0&vxp=mtr
It looks correct from what I have seen for 60 and 61 Chevy's.

You need the engine ball
http://www.show-cars.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=7485

You need this mount on your frame for the Z bar
http://www.show-cars.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=5417
If y0ur frame has this mount your car was a stick from the factory. The factory mount will have 3 countersunk holes on the lower portion of the frame bracket where it was welded to the frame by the factory.

Show Cars in New Ulm, Minnesota has all the linkage that they reproduce from the originals(see the link below).
The lower rod for example is 10 7/16 inches long -looks like yours is that length.
http://www.show-cars.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=5605

Here is a spring they list for the lower threaded rod
http://www.show-cars.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=3202
The other pull back spring is under the dash on the clutch pedals for 1960 and 1961's.

Here is a firewall seal ( that seals the firewall hole for the long rod for factory stick cars) that is screwed to the firewall for 59 and 60 Chevy's
www.show-cars.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=5943

Paul

 

[Dougs60Chevy]

Thanks Paul, thanks Don. I think this linkage came with the car, but I wouldn't swear to it. Too many projects over the years and too much time since I acquired the car! The car was originally a 3-speed 283, the over center spring is still there.

I have the linkage installed in the car and it does technically "work" but I'm still not 100% sure everything is correct. The lower rod may or may not be for a 348, the adjustment is almost at maximum to reach the clutch fork. More concerning, the upper rod wants to scrub the lower part of the hole in the firewall. Currently the clutch pedal sticks to the floor but that may just be adjustment issues. Also I found a diagram of z-bars on show-cars.com and my z-bar does not exactly match any of the z-bars in the diagram.

 

[pvs409]

The z bar with the "stud on one arm" is the correct style of z bar for 1960 & 1961 only...... -check Show cars pictures of them. They do show a different rod through the firewall for 1960 vs 1961. I also have seen a number of "original" 1961's with the Z bar with the stud on one arm. All the other parts match for the 1960/1961 linkage match this type of Z bar.

I would consider straightening one of the bends in the long rod. The reason I have found differences in "original " 1962 vs 1963 & 1964 upper long rods -even though Show cars sells those years as one rod.
I have 3 extra of the long upper rods similar to yours (they have more bends in them).

From the shape of your upper long rod (the bends in it) -yours might have been straightened to remove one of the bends in the rod. I say this because my upper 1960/1961 rods have at least 2 bends in them.

There is a longer lower rod that Show cars sells that I have used on my cars. I bought the longer rod for a a 1961 409 that we converted from a Turboglide to a 4 speed.
I also used the longer threaded rod on my 62 SS 409 Hardtop that has a scattershield where I needed more clutch adjustment.
A 1961 has the same linkage style -rods/connections/etc as your car.

See this link for the threaded rod. This threaded rod is 12 3/4 inches long vs y0ur lower threaded rod that appears to be just over 10 inches(you may need the correct threaded pin also from them)
This rod is listed for a 348/409 motor.
http://www.show-cars.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=5608

Paul

 

[DonSSDD]

The bell housing geometry in relation to the block is the same on a small block and a 348, 409. The bracket Paul mentions spot welded to the frame that supports the z bar mounts in the same place for all. The lower rod you have looks correct if you have the right clutch fork.

The clutch fork- there are some differences in those, post a pic of yours, the wrong one will effect your clutch adjustment.

I had a 283 and a 409 in my 59, used all the same linkage and bell housing, fit very well to both motors.

I found the clutch over center spring up under the dash made it "fussy" to adjust the clutch pedal so it didn't stay on the floor like the problem you are having. On my lower clutch rod, I drilled out the threads on the swivel so it slid freely on the rod. Then I put some nuts on the rod on either side of the swivel so I could adjust the clutch using those nuts instead of having to disconnect the rod, make an adjustment, then reconnect the rod after each adjustment. I double nutted the nuts to lock them in place.

 

[Dougs60Chevy]

Paul - My "stud-on-one-arm" z-bar appears correct even though it does not exactly match the dimensions of any on the show-cars diagram. Also - in regards to the longer lower rod - if it was 2 inches longer I believe it would hit the exhaust pipe(if I had one installed). Although it would appear that I could use the extra adjustment. The 12 3/4 rod on the show-cars page says "61 small block..."

Don - Thanks for the info, most helpful. Did you remove the over center spring? I have tried several adjustments on mine and it will not return to full "up" position. Now it is sticking a few inches off the floor. My lower rod is adjusted all the way to the end of the rod, no more adjustment left.
I think I have the correct clutch fork and bellhousing ball - both came bolted to the 348. But, I could be wrong.

 

[Dougs60Chevy]

 

[Phil Reed]

You have a 61-62 clutch fork. You should have a 55-60 which has a double bend. That will shorten the length of the lower rod. Look at Show CARS catalog.

Actually......it's a 61. Can anyone say why?

 

[Dougs60Chevy]

wow, thanks Phil. Very helpful. This 348 is a 1961 model so that makes sense.
I guess I'll try the Show-cars 3574 fork, it has the double-bend (even at 90 bucks, ouch!). Their website actually lists this item as 58-60 and as 58-62 depending on which page you look at.

 

[Phil Reed]

Is your Z-bar a 61 also? 59-60 used the same and 61 was different.

 

[pvs409]

Show cars lists the 60/61 z bar as the same (see their z bar pictures). They show 59 as a one year only.

I have both types of clutch forks at home(not at home till Sunday).
Both types of clutch forks that I have are used original ones.

My measurements of both of them showed (as I recall ) that the straight arm clutch fork 61 -62 (& 63 I think) fork is actually closer to the
Z bar than the double bend clutch fork.

I have done a number of conversions and making lower linkage fit on various years so I checked the clutch forks for fit with Z bars, that's why I think I am remembering correctly.
I am referring to 552(cast iron) or 553(aluminum) bell housings like the one on your 1960 in y0ur pictures.
I can check them Sunday to see if I am right.

I have the double bend clutch fork and a 12" lower threaded rod on my 62 SS 409 Hardtop. Pictures available Sunday.

I have sold used double bend clutch forks in the past.

Paul

 

[pvs409]

One thing that has not been discussed - how much free play in the clutch pedal do you have when its first depressed?
If you don't have enough the adjustment lower rod has to be changed extended to get the proper amount.

Paul

 

[Dougs60Chevy]

There is a LOT of free play at the top of the pedal throw. Hard to tell with one person but I feel resistance on the pedal when the pedal is within 3-4" of the floorboard. And I'm out of room for adjustment so I'm hoping that double-bend fork will indeed place the z-bar closer. I think my z-bar is a '60. Here's measurements on the z-bar I have, written in red on the diagram from show-cars.

 

[Don Jacks]

Either that or you need a longer throw out bearing.

 

[pvs409]

free play is normally measured from the other end of the clutch pedal. When you first push the pedal the amount of free play (when the adjustment is correct) should be about 1 to 2 " until you fell pressure on the linkage at the start of releasing the clutch.
Also you can with help as you note, determine if the clutch is releasing by turning the driveshaft and observing if the clutch releases when depressed to the floor. It should release when the clutch pedal is about 2" off the floor.
Paul

 

[DonSSDD]

Here's one from a 59 Chevy. Is your rod through the firewall from a 61?

 

[DonSSDD]

Judging by the pics- the 60 fork I posted is farther away from that bell housing bolt than your fork, so your lower rod is much too short if you use that fork I have in the pic. I'm guessing you have a mismatch somewhere in your rod through the firewall, the z bar, the lower rod, or the fork.

I have tried several adjustments on mine and it will not return to full "up" position.

What do you mean by this comment? The clutch pedal will not come all the way up and hit the stop?

 

[Dougs60Chevy]

It seems like the clutch fork is too far away from the z-bar. Right now I really have no idea which component is the culprit. I did buy a 55-60 "double-bend" clutch fork yesterday. This seems like the most logical culprit to me, I will compare a bit and consider whether to swap this piece out. I know these pics make it look a certain way, but angles can fool ya. Who knows!?!

The pedal will go all the way to the top and hit the stop, but I have to manually pull it up by hand, it does not return to the top on its own. (The over-center spring is installed and has plenty of tension left. None of the smaller clutch linkage springs are installed- my understanding is that these smaller springs have nothing to do with pedal return, they just keep things from rattling around.)

Starting from the top of the throw and contacting the rubber stop, the pedal travels 5 - 6" before meeting resistance. Pedal is now about 2" from floor and stays at this position by itself. I can push the pedal the remaining 2" to the floor, then let off the pedal, and it returns to the same position 2" from floor. (It feels as though it is disengaging/engaging the clutch within those last 2") I can manually pull it back up 5-6" and it will contact the stop again.

I think if I had enough adjustment left to make it disengage/engage a little sooner/further up the pedal travel, it might be OK. ie, clutch fork seems too far away from the z-bar.

 

[Dougs60Chevy]

Here's one from a 59 Chevy. Is your rod through the firewall from a 61?

Hey Don, I really have no idea. Could be anything, it came with the car. I wonder if a 61 is longer than a 60? They are different according to show-cars.